Range Report: Browning Mk III 9mm w/Novak Sights.

Stephen A. Camp · 09-17-2003, 10:51 PM

This is an older "range report" I did a time back. If you've not seen it, there might be something of interest in it. If you have, I apologize for the repost.

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Hello. Rightly or wrongly, the 9x19mm has seen "duty" in military, police, or plain, ol' honest citizen scenarios for the majority of the last century and continues to this day. It's been present in very public wars all over the globe as well as "private unpleasantness" perhaps known only to involved SAS personnel or other special operations groups around the globe.

A 9mm pistol that's seen a good deal of such might be Browning's Hi Power in one variation or the other. No longer one of the few choices in a "high-capacity" 9mm, Browning's Hi Power remains a most popular pistol with many and remains my favorite all-around handgun.

I bought a Mk III a few years ago and had it customized a bit even though the unaltered Mk III did everything I asked once the hammer spur was bobbed and the less-than-grand trigger pull, addressed.

The Pistol: Bought NIB by me, this Mk III 9mm still has its original factory "matte" finish, but has had a Cylinder & Slide hammer and sear fitted, magazine disconnect removed, bbl blued, Novak sights added, skateboard tape added to the front grip strap, and Butler Creek (Uncle Mike's) black, checkered rubber grips replace the nylon thumb rest grips that came on the gun. The trigger breaks very crisply at just over 5 lbs. While I like the factory extended, ambidextrous thumb safety, ambis get in my way with the Hi Power so I had the right side removed with the safety pin rounded off.

Unlike all of the HPs that I'm aware of in the past, this newer version of the Mk III's bbl does NOT have the protrusion at the rear upper end. So far as I can tell it makes no difference, but the breech face still retains the cutout for it, meaning that older barrels could be used if desired or needed.

This older Mk III bbl shows the protrusion.

The Mk III bbl in the pistol fired today does not. Both worked well and fed well with a variety of bullet shapes due to the factory treatment of the feedramp. Case support can also be observed.

There's also a slight cutout at the bbl's chamber such that the glint of a brass case can be seen, I suppose as a form of loaded chamber indicator.

Here's the pistol tested today in the form described above. All firing was done with a KRD SA 17 round magazine to see how it functioned with this particular Hi Power that's been reliable with all Mec-Gar and Browning factory magazines to date.

Note that the chambered round can be seen outside the pistol.

This pistol has a Wolff conventional 18.5-lb recoil spring in place as well as a brand new Buffer Technology's buffer.

The only change made to the factory 1:10 bbl was that it was blued. No accurizing has been done to this pistol.

Novak rear sight as installed by gunsmith, Lou Williamson. This is the version originally designed for the Hi Power and it works well. It's my understanding that today, some use the slightly larger Novak's intended for the 1911 such that a higher front sight can be used for a possibly quicker sight picture. I did that very thing when having a set of Novak fixed sights put on a Pre-B CZ-75 as the front sight would have been particularly low w/o doing so.

The C & S hammer is also clearly shown. This one, commonly referred to as the "Type I ring hammer" does alleviate hammer bite for me.

Plain, black, serrated front sight...

Ammunition: The following factory and handloaded rounds were fired for testing:

Left to Right: Federal 115 gr JHP, Federal 124 gr M882 FMJ, handload using a Rucker 122 gr Cast Truncated Cone or Flat Point, handloaded Rainier 124 gr Plated Rnd Nose, handloaded Hornady 124 gr XTP, and handloaded round using Speer's 124 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point.*

*Handloads were as follows:
Hornady 124 gr XTP
6.0 gr Unique
Federal Small Pistol Primer
New IMI cases
LOA: 1.11"
Average velocity: 1243 ft/sec

Speer 124 gr GDHP
6.0 gr Unique
Federal Small Pistol Primer
New IMI cases
LOA: 1.12"
Average velocity: 1234 ft/sec

Rucker 122 gr CFP
6.9 gr Blue Dot
New IMI cases
Federal Small Pistol Primer
LOA: 1.075"
Average velocity: 1140 ft/sec

Rainier 124 gr PRN
6.9 gr Blue Dot
New IMI cases
Federal Small Pistol Primer
LOA: 1.155"
Average velocity: 1090 ft/sec

For those interested, Federal 115 gr JHP averaged 1130 ft/sec while the M882 ball did 1146 ft/sec.

[Continued...

Stephen A. Camp · 09-17-2003, 10:52 PM

Shooting: Shooting today was done at 10, 15, and 25 yards. I did not have access to the 50-yard range today; it was already being used when I arrived at the range. All shooting today, except for the rapid-fire stuff at 10 yards was done sitting and with my hands/wrists resting on sandbags.

15 Yards: Each group consists of 5 shots.

You'll note that two groups were fired with the Rainier's. I just didn't "do it right" in the first group.

The Hornady XTP/6.0 gr Unique load is the load this pistol was originally zeroed for, but the others hit pretty close at 15 yards. The very similar Speer GDHP load hits almost exactly the same point of aim as does CCI/Speer's 124 gr +P GDHP factory ammunition. It averages 1199 ft/sec from this pistol.

I cannot yet tell if which is the more accurate of the two loads. The horizontal spread on the Gold Dot load is me.

25 Yards: Groups consist of 10 shots each.

The three shots at the lower left of the group hit there because I slightly jerked my shots and knew it when I did. There was not time to reshoot.

...and with the Gold Dots...

10 Yards: From a Weaver, 5 sets of controlled pairs were fired.

No timer was available, but the shots were fired quickly. I'll get a timer in the near future and will be better able to present time-frames in which shots are fired.

Observations: First, the KRD magazine is a bear to load when brand new. I'd cheated and left this one loaded for about 8 days before today's session. The magazine worked fine with all of the rounds shown today. The magazine was loaded to full capacity for some shooting, loaded with 5 for others, and 10 for yet other shooting. I've purchased several of these and have had but one that gave problems. Disassembling and stoning a burr on the metal follower solved that problem. This magazine was specifically chosen as many folks wanting more than 10 rounds buy them and I wanted to do a bit of a "test" for them in this article as well. For more data on factory and aftermarket magazines for the P-35, I highly recommend the following site:

http://www.ont.com/users/kolya/bhpmagfaq.htm

The brand new Buffer Tech buff caused zero problems as did the heavier Wolff recoil spring. (I'm not surprised as I've been using this combination in several 9mm HPs for a good while now.)

Not designed as a target pistol, I find that this Mk III as well as the vast majority of others I've shot has very decent accuracy and it's better than I can do off-hand or under field conditions. I have not seen the need to have a Barsto bbl fitted to any Mk III even though it might tighten groups a bit, but have zero problems with folks who do opt for this upgrade.

The pistol is easy to shoot did NOT display the sometimes seen "one wild shot and then the group" effect; any errant shots are my fault. Ejection was positive and the standard pressure rounds landed about 4' to my right with the hotter two handload cases landed about 3 or 4 feet farther away. Cases were not swelled near the bases and firing pin strikes were plenty hard and well-centered.

Not nearly so nice as actual stippling, the skateboard tape did a very fine job of offering additional purchase to the grip and the rubber copies of the Spegel grips was both comfortable and less costly.

I like the pistol, but in all honesty, I do just as well with Mk IIIs using the factory fixed sights. They do add a little extra panache to an already grand handgun, but I leave it to you to decide if they're needed.

The barrel changes mentioned at the beginning appear to have zero affect on either reliability or accuracy.

Almost, but not quite forgotten, here's the "scientific" mud expansion test which was done on the handloaded Speer and Hornady 124 gr hollow points. The Gold Dot is on the left.

I own and use several Browning Hi Powers with both fixed and adjustable sights. Though all are special to me, the Mk III remains a favored shooter. Nothing special compared to many, this one suits me fine. It's cleanly taken quite a bit of smaller game animals in recent years and has been carried legally concealed on occasion. By going the route mentioned in the article, total costs can be held down quite a bit with you still winding up with a pretty nice shooter.

It does all I ask of it.

Best.

NRAJOE · 09-17-2003, 10:53 PM

Nice pistol...good job! :right:

Stephen A. Camp · 09-17-2003, 11:17 PM

Hello and thank you both very much. Glad it was of interest.
I'll dig around for something different.

Best.

09-17-2003, 10:51 PM	#1
Stephen A. Camp Guest Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 229	Range Report: Browning Mk III 9mm w/Novak Sights. This is an older "range report" I did a time back. If you've not seen it, there might be something of interest in it. If you have, I apologize for the repost. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello. Rightly or wrongly, the 9x19mm has seen "duty" in military, police, or plain, ol' honest citizen scenarios for the majority of the last century and continues to this day. It's been present in very public wars all over the globe as well as "private unpleasantness" perhaps known only to involved SAS personnel or other special operations groups around the globe. A 9mm pistol that's seen a good deal of such might be Browning's Hi Power in one variation or the other. No longer one of the few choices in a "high-capacity" 9mm, Browning's Hi Power remains a most popular pistol with many and remains my favorite all-around handgun. I bought a Mk III a few years ago and had it customized a bit even though the unaltered Mk III did everything I asked once the hammer spur was bobbed and the less-than-grand trigger pull, addressed. The Pistol: Bought NIB by me, this Mk III 9mm still has its original factory "matte" finish, but has had a Cylinder & Slide hammer and sear fitted, magazine disconnect removed, bbl blued, Novak sights added, skateboard tape added to the front grip strap, and Butler Creek (Uncle Mike's) black, checkered rubber grips replace the nylon thumb rest grips that came on the gun. The trigger breaks very crisply at just over 5 lbs. While I like the factory extended, ambidextrous thumb safety, ambis get in my way with the Hi Power so I had the right side removed with the safety pin rounded off. Unlike all of the HPs that I'm aware of in the past, this newer version of the Mk III's bbl does NOT have the protrusion at the rear upper end. So far as I can tell it makes no difference, but the breech face still retains the cutout for it, meaning that older barrels could be used if desired or needed. This older Mk III bbl shows the protrusion. The Mk III bbl in the pistol fired today does not. Both worked well and fed well with a variety of bullet shapes due to the factory treatment of the feedramp. Case support can also be observed. There's also a slight cutout at the bbl's chamber such that the glint of a brass case can be seen, I suppose as a form of loaded chamber indicator. Here's the pistol tested today in the form described above. All firing was done with a KRD SA 17 round magazine to see how it functioned with this particular Hi Power that's been reliable with all Mec-Gar and Browning factory magazines to date. Note that the chambered round can be seen outside the pistol. This pistol has a Wolff conventional 18.5-lb recoil spring in place as well as a brand new Buffer Technology's buffer. The only change made to the factory 1:10 bbl was that it was blued. No accurizing has been done to this pistol. Novak rear sight as installed by gunsmith, Lou Williamson. This is the version originally designed for the Hi Power and it works well. It's my understanding that today, some use the slightly larger Novak's intended for the 1911 such that a higher front sight can be used for a possibly quicker sight picture. I did that very thing when having a set of Novak fixed sights put on a Pre-B CZ-75 as the front sight would have been particularly low w/o doing so. The C & S hammer is also clearly shown. This one, commonly referred to as the "Type I ring hammer" does alleviate hammer bite for me. Plain, black, serrated front sight... Ammunition: The following factory and handloaded rounds were fired for testing: Left to Right: Federal 115 gr JHP, Federal 124 gr M882 FMJ, handload using a Rucker 122 gr Cast Truncated Cone or Flat Point, handloaded Rainier 124 gr Plated Rnd Nose, handloaded Hornady 124 gr XTP, and handloaded round using Speer's 124 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point.* *Handloads were as follows: Hornady 124 gr XTP 6.0 gr Unique Federal Small Pistol Primer New IMI cases LOA: 1.11" Average velocity: 1243 ft/sec Speer 124 gr GDHP 6.0 gr Unique Federal Small Pistol Primer New IMI cases LOA: 1.12" Average velocity: 1234 ft/sec Rucker 122 gr CFP 6.9 gr Blue Dot New IMI cases Federal Small Pistol Primer LOA: 1.075" Average velocity: 1140 ft/sec Rainier 124 gr PRN 6.9 gr Blue Dot New IMI cases Federal Small Pistol Primer LOA: 1.155" Average velocity: 1090 ft/sec For those interested, Federal 115 gr JHP averaged 1130 ft/sec while the M882 ball did 1146 ft/sec. [Continued... __________________ Please visit www.hipowersandhandguns.com.

09-17-2003, 10:52 PM	#2
Stephen A. Camp Guest Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 229	Range Report Continued... Shooting: Shooting today was done at 10, 15, and 25 yards. I did not have access to the 50-yard range today; it was already being used when I arrived at the range. All shooting today, except for the rapid-fire stuff at 10 yards was done sitting and with my hands/wrists resting on sandbags. 15 Yards: Each group consists of 5 shots. You'll note that two groups were fired with the Rainier's. I just didn't "do it right" in the first group. The Hornady XTP/6.0 gr Unique load is the load this pistol was originally zeroed for, but the others hit pretty close at 15 yards. The very similar Speer GDHP load hits almost exactly the same point of aim as does CCI/Speer's 124 gr +P GDHP factory ammunition. It averages 1199 ft/sec from this pistol. I cannot yet tell if which is the more accurate of the two loads. The horizontal spread on the Gold Dot load is me. 25 Yards: Groups consist of 10 shots each. The three shots at the lower left of the group hit there because I slightly jerked my shots and knew it when I did. There was not time to reshoot. ...and with the Gold Dots... 10 Yards: From a Weaver, 5 sets of controlled pairs were fired. No timer was available, but the shots were fired quickly. I'll get a timer in the near future and will be better able to present time-frames in which shots are fired. Observations: First, the KRD magazine is a bear to load when brand new. I'd cheated and left this one loaded for about 8 days before today's session. The magazine worked fine with all of the rounds shown today. The magazine was loaded to full capacity for some shooting, loaded with 5 for others, and 10 for yet other shooting. I've purchased several of these and have had but one that gave problems. Disassembling and stoning a burr on the metal follower solved that problem. This magazine was specifically chosen as many folks wanting more than 10 rounds buy them and I wanted to do a bit of a "test" for them in this article as well. For more data on factory and aftermarket magazines for the P-35, I highly recommend the following site: http://www.ont.com/users/kolya/bhpmagfaq.htm The brand new Buffer Tech buff caused zero problems as did the heavier Wolff recoil spring. (I'm not surprised as I've been using this combination in several 9mm HPs for a good while now.) Not designed as a target pistol, I find that this Mk III as well as the vast majority of others I've shot has very decent accuracy and it's better than I can do off-hand or under field conditions. I have not seen the need to have a Barsto bbl fitted to any Mk III even though it might tighten groups a bit, but have zero problems with folks who do opt for this upgrade. The pistol is easy to shoot did NOT display the sometimes seen "one wild shot and then the group" effect; any errant shots are my fault. Ejection was positive and the standard pressure rounds landed about 4' to my right with the hotter two handload cases landed about 3 or 4 feet farther away. Cases were not swelled near the bases and firing pin strikes were plenty hard and well-centered. Not nearly so nice as actual stippling, the skateboard tape did a very fine job of offering additional purchase to the grip and the rubber copies of the Spegel grips was both comfortable and less costly. I like the pistol, but in all honesty, I do just as well with Mk IIIs using the factory fixed sights. They do add a little extra panache to an already grand handgun, but I leave it to you to decide if they're needed. The barrel changes mentioned at the beginning appear to have zero affect on either reliability or accuracy. Almost, but not quite forgotten, here's the "scientific" mud expansion test which was done on the handloaded Speer and Hornady 124 gr hollow points. The Gold Dot is on the left. I own and use several Browning Hi Powers with both fixed and adjustable sights. Though all are special to me, the Mk III remains a favored shooter. Nothing special compared to many, this one suits me fine. It's cleanly taken quite a bit of smaller game animals in recent years and has been carried legally concealed on occasion. By going the route mentioned in the article, total costs can be held down quite a bit with you still winding up with a pretty nice shooter. It does all I ask of it. Best. __________________ Please visit www.hipowersandhandguns.com.

09-17-2003, 10:53 PM	#3
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,252 Images: 3	Nice pistol...good job! :right: __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

09-17-2003, 11:17 PM	#4
Stephen A. Camp Guest Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 229	Hello and thank you both very much. Glad it was of interest. I'll dig around for something different. Best. __________________ Please visit www.hipowersandhandguns.com.