G3 - carbine or sniper?

BattleRifleG3 · 06-20-2004, 03:15 PM

This is a two-folded question.

First, do you view the G3's design as best used as a carbine, with minimized weight and maximized maneuverability, including a retractable stock after the ban dies, or should it be used as a marksman rifle, with every attention given to maximum accuracy and accesories (cheekrest, bipod, large honkin scope, target grip) to that end, at the expense of weight?

Mine is having an identity crisis. It's getting too honkin big with all its sniperish accessories, but isn't very long and has an aluminum receiver which doers not accomodate a sliding stock, but that I could adapt for a sliding stock of my own design. I was actually planning on switching my G3 to carbine duty if my Saiga 308 outshot it, after my hi-cap mag conversion to G3 mags. I also considered trading it towards a custom build of a G3A3K carbine after the ban dies.

I think I pulled a 1.25MOA group out of it ONCE and only ONCE with match ammo, and that may have been a fluke. Otherwise it's 4MOA with surplus, not bad for surplus but not marksmanlike either. The G3 shouldn't be fed commercial 308 ammo, so that rules out most match stuff. A gas operated auto like the Saiga should have no problem with commercial 308.

SilverRun · 06-20-2004, 05:34 PM

I had a G3 a couple years back. It was sub MOA for the first 3-5 shoots. After that, wow it would look like a shootgun pattern! I suspected something outa whack with the barrel that showed up when the barrel heated. I never tried to figure it out. I traded it for something else. So, based only off that experience, I would say find another rifle more suited to the sniper role.

jerry · 06-20-2004, 07:56 PM

I'll admit I know nothing about the G3. However I can say with confidence that the RANGE/DISTANCE is a major player. Oh yes, I know nothing about sniping either.

You need the right tool for the job, plain and simple. I know this is not the answer your looking for, sorry.

Mandy · 06-26-2004, 08:12 PM

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

I say Sniper bussiness, it can be setted for that stuff and it's a repeater gun, with a 20 shot mag you have enough to get out.

The PSG is a G3 on steroids, so you just have to set it properly to get the job done, .308 cal is the rnd to go in Sniping.

The rifle can use 5 rnd mags rendering it more maneurable without the extended 20 rnd mags.

The only drawback is that the shell is ejected from the gun and may stay behind, but with a brass catcher that could be fixed too.

It's to heavy for a combat rifle thou it has been used that way for years.

I'm setting mine for long range shooting, a 6-24x40 scope and couple of boattails should proove well suited for log range shooting.

In Sniping you should not shoot more than one shot to avoid detection so more than three should be very rare.

:uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

BattleRifleG3 · 09-14-2004, 01:23 AM

Any more opinions on this?

Big Dog · 09-14-2004, 04:41 AM

Basically, it depends on your concept of the sniper mission. In the US military, we place a premium on accuracy, and the sniper team making one or two shots, then changing position or bugging out. They are used to take out a single important personnel target.
In the European/Soviet system, the sniper basically harrasses the opposing troops. He can put out many shots before moving on. Accuracy isn't as vital - hence the Dragunov rifle.

My vote is, to keep the G3 as a good basic infantry weapon - capable of hitting the enemy at a relative;y good distance, depending on the shooter's skill.
I favor bolt-actions for true American-style sniping.

09-14-2004, 06:10 AM

I'd go with the carbine but I'm as nearsighted as a bear :right:

TULAver · 09-15-2004, 11:36 PM

Expanding on BigDog's post, historically speaking, most sniping is done within relatively short distances(in relation to effective distance of high power rounds) Theory being that no matter how well you shoot, your rate of succesfull shots increase as your distance to the target decreases.

That said, I think you should go in between the two with it. G3s are exceedingly accurate and powerful for a modern infantry weapon, but a bit on the heavy side by today's standards. Why not pair the weapon to a 3-9x scope with see through rings, and a collapsing buttstock?

For a rifle that's not truly one or the other(sniper or infantry rifle) why not let it lay in between? Don't try to force it into a mold, it'll only resent you. Let it BE it's own rifle, mmmkay? This is one of the secrets of forging a lasting bond between you and your child. RIFLE, you and your RIFLE....

edit::
Sorry, just remembered that you said yours won't take a retractable buttstock. Would be a neat project though, especially if you can improve on the faults of the normal retracting stocks.

DarthSane · 09-21-2004, 07:22 AM

For a US Military type sniping role, the G3 is not the best rifle for the job.
For Police/Swat style sniping, it's a good rifle for that.
(Though I would look toward accurizing the barrel on your particular rifle)
Have you trying lapping the barrel?
I read somewhere that there are rounds out now that you can use to lap the barrel while you shoot it.
If you are interested I'll see if I can dig up the article again.

colt45 · 09-21-2004, 07:35 AM

i allways liked the carbine myself.

BattleRifleG3 · 09-21-2004, 09:18 PM

I'm considering having a new 24" PTR barrel installed. Barrel cost is $225. Not sure how much the work is or if I could do it myself.

That would basically put my G3 into the traget category.

whirlwind · 09-28-2004, 12:12 AM

its always better to breathe and squeeze than it is to pray and spray! get the long barrel

dasher · 09-29-2004, 11:34 AM

I have a SW3 G3 with the Hensoldt scope and Stanag mount and I would have to say both...as a carbine and a sniper rifle. With a few upgrades added can turn a regular G3 into a very accurate rifle ( Williams Set Trigger, custom barrel, High quality optics ).

BattleRifleG3,

JLD Enterprise have very good quality and are one of only a few with high quality workmanship! Their PTR barrels are as close as anyone could get to having a new German made HK 91 Barrel.

I use Winchester 150 grain SP in my G3 with no problem and I tend to stay away from the steel cased bullets in the Military Surplus Ammo. When I was using the surplus ammo the Spanish SB ammo had the best groups.

Choscura · 05-16-2006, 08:59 AM

well, with a delayed blowback action like the g-3 has, it gives you the chance to do something you can only do with a few rifles: fully free-float the barrel. so if this were me talking- and in the next few years, when I get the language down and get 'settled' in burma, it probably will be (I'm a missionary in southeast asia, btw)- I'd fully go with a sniper conversion. trade out the full auto trigger on the surplus rifles here for a decent one from the states, basically weld a tube around the barrel as a shroud, remove the front sights, and mount a decent scope, and I'd say you'd have one !!!! of a rifle. a good varmint gun for the locals to pick off monkeys and the odd tiger with here (note: these animals are considered pests in much the same way that coyotes and wolves are in america- the difference is that here, they eat everything they shoot).

other than that, the caliber (.308 winchester) renders any carbine too heavy to really be worthwhile- maybe if you neck it down to 7.62x39 or possibly even as far down as 7.62x25, I'd be interested in it in that format. as it is, it's a decent battle rifle that nobody likes to carry for more than 10 miles.

gonzo454 · 05-16-2006, 09:59 AM

I also would have a tendency to go with a “Sniper” set up…I just got mine but I plan to make it as much like a PSG-1 as possible, while I agree with the idea of “true” sniper rifles being bolt action I also like to see an ability for quick, multiple follow up shots, for this reason I have always thought of the M1A as a viable “sniper” option as well.

The single most important reason to chose a bolt over any thing else is because historically they have been more accurate, so if I can get bolt groups with an auto…what then is the hold up??? Personally I say there is no hold up, have the 20 rnd mags with rapid follow up shots, and a quick reload, Oh and a really hot looking rifle to boot.

But that is just my opinion.

View Poll Results: G3 - carbine or sniper?
The G3 is best used in a sniper setup.	11	50.00%
The G3 is better used as a carbine, no matter how accurate, with a low powered (4x) scope.	12	54.55%
The G3 sucks. So do you, BattleRifleG3. In fact, you're the reason it sucks at all. You suck so much, "I'll bet you're the kind of guy that would suck a..."	7	31.82%
I have a G3A3K type carbine and a PSG-1 type target grip that I'll sell you for a song. Seriously, here's your mic, here's a backup band...	2	9.09%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

06-20-2004, 03:15 PM	#1
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	G3 - carbine or sniper? This is a two-folded question. First, do you view the G3's design as best used as a carbine, with minimized weight and maximized maneuverability, including a retractable stock after the ban dies, or should it be used as a marksman rifle, with every attention given to maximum accuracy and accesories (cheekrest, bipod, large honkin scope, target grip) to that end, at the expense of weight? Mine is having an identity crisis. It's getting too honkin big with all its sniperish accessories, but isn't very long and has an aluminum receiver which doers not accomodate a sliding stock, but that I could adapt for a sliding stock of my own design. I was actually planning on switching my G3 to carbine duty if my Saiga 308 outshot it, after my hi-cap mag conversion to G3 mags. I also considered trading it towards a custom build of a G3A3K carbine after the ban dies. I think I pulled a 1.25MOA group out of it ONCE and only ONCE with match ammo, and that may have been a fluke. Otherwise it's 4MOA with surplus, not bad for surplus but not marksmanlike either. The G3 shouldn't be fed commercial 308 ammo, so that rules out most match stuff. A gas operated auto like the Saiga should have no problem with commercial 308. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

06-20-2004, 07:56 PM	#3
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,871 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	I'll admit I know nothing about the G3. However I can say with confidence that the RANGE/DISTANCE is a major player. Oh yes, I know nothing about sniping either. You need the right tool for the job, plain and simple. I know this is not the answer your looking for, sorry. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

06-26-2004, 08:12 PM	#4
Mandy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 1,641	:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: I say Sniper bussiness, it can be setted for that stuff and it's a repeater gun, with a 20 shot mag you have enough to get out. The PSG is a G3 on steroids, so you just have to set it properly to get the job done, .308 cal is the rnd to go in Sniping. The rifle can use 5 rnd mags rendering it more maneurable without the extended 20 rnd mags. The only drawback is that the shell is ejected from the gun and may stay behind, but with a brass catcher that could be fixed too. It's to heavy for a combat rifle thou it has been used that way for years. I'm setting mine for long range shooting, a 6-24x40 scope and couple of boattails should proove well suited for log range shooting. In Sniping you should not shoot more than one shot to avoid detection so more than three should be very rare. :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: __________________ :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: Better be judged by 12 than carried by 6. _________________________________ If you gonna die, die with your boots on ! Iron Maiden _________________________________ The deeper you go, the better it feels ! Divers Motto :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

09-14-2004, 01:23 AM	#5
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Any more opinions on this? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

06-20-2004, 05:34 PM	#2
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,661	I had a G3 a couple years back. It was sub MOA for the first 3-5 shoots. After that, wow it would look like a shootgun pattern! I suspected something outa whack with the barrel that showed up when the barrel heated. I never tried to figure it out. I traded it for something else. So, based only off that experience, I would say find another rifle more suited to the sniper role.

09-14-2004, 04:41 AM	#6
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,208	Basically, it depends on your concept of the sniper mission. In the US military, we place a premium on accuracy, and the sniper team making one or two shots, then changing position or bugging out. They are used to take out a single important personnel target. In the European/Soviet system, the sniper basically harrasses the opposing troops. He can put out many shots before moving on. Accuracy isn't as vital - hence the Dragunov rifle. My vote is, to keep the G3 as a good basic infantry weapon - capable of hitting the enemy at a relative;y good distance, depending on the shooter's skill. I favor bolt-actions for true American-style sniping. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

09-14-2004, 06:10 AM	#7
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	I'd go with the carbine but I'm as nearsighted as a bear :right:

09-15-2004, 11:36 PM	#8
TULAver Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 372	Expanding on BigDog's post, historically speaking, most sniping is done within relatively short distances(in relation to effective distance of high power rounds) Theory being that no matter how well you shoot, your rate of succesfull shots increase as your distance to the target decreases. That said, I think you should go in between the two with it. G3s are exceedingly accurate and powerful for a modern infantry weapon, but a bit on the heavy side by today's standards. Why not pair the weapon to a 3-9x scope with see through rings, and a collapsing buttstock? For a rifle that's not truly one or the other(sniper or infantry rifle) why not let it lay in between? Don't try to force it into a mold, it'll only resent you. Let it BE it's own rifle, mmmkay? This is one of the secrets of forging a lasting bond between you and your child. RIFLE, you and your RIFLE.... edit:: Sorry, just remembered that you said yours won't take a retractable buttstock. Would be a neat project though, especially if you can improve on the faults of the normal retracting stocks. __________________ It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that any people you meet from time to time are merely the product of a deranged imagination. Last edited by TULAver; 09-15-2004 at 11:41 PM.

09-21-2004, 07:22 AM	#9
DarthSane Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Posts: 11	For a US Military type sniping role, the G3 is not the best rifle for the job. For Police/Swat style sniping, it's a good rifle for that. (Though I would look toward accurizing the barrel on your particular rifle) Have you trying lapping the barrel? I read somewhere that there are rounds out now that you can use to lap the barrel while you shoot it. If you are interested I'll see if I can dig up the article again.

09-21-2004, 07:35 AM	#10
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	i allways liked the carbine myself. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

09-21-2004, 09:18 PM	#11
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	I'm considering having a new 24" PTR barrel installed. Barrel cost is $225. Not sure how much the work is or if I could do it myself. That would basically put my G3 into the traget category. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

09-28-2004, 12:12 AM	#12
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,737 Images: 1	its always better to breathe and squeeze than it is to pray and spray! get the long barrel __________________ De oppresso liber !

09-29-2004, 11:34 AM	#13
dasher Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tenn. Posts: 10	I have a SW3 G3 with the Hensoldt scope and Stanag mount and I would have to say both...as a carbine and a sniper rifle. With a few upgrades added can turn a regular G3 into a very accurate rifle ( Williams Set Trigger, custom barrel, High quality optics ). BattleRifleG3, JLD Enterprise have very good quality and are one of only a few with high quality workmanship! Their PTR barrels are as close as anyone could get to having a new German made HK 91 Barrel. I use Winchester 150 grain SP in my G3 with no problem and I tend to stay away from the steel cased bullets in the Military Surplus Ammo. When I was using the surplus ammo the Spanish SB ammo had the best groups.

05-16-2006, 08:59 AM	#14
Choscura Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: idaho (temporarily) Posts: 25	well, with a delayed blowback action like the g-3 has, it gives you the chance to do something you can only do with a few rifles: fully free-float the barrel. so if this were me talking- and in the next few years, when I get the language down and get 'settled' in burma, it probably will be (I'm a missionary in southeast asia, btw)- I'd fully go with a sniper conversion. trade out the full auto trigger on the surplus rifles here for a decent one from the states, basically weld a tube around the barrel as a shroud, remove the front sights, and mount a decent scope, and I'd say you'd have one !!!! of a rifle. a good varmint gun for the locals to pick off monkeys and the odd tiger with here (note: these animals are considered pests in much the same way that coyotes and wolves are in america- the difference is that here, they eat everything they shoot). other than that, the caliber (.308 winchester) renders any carbine too heavy to really be worthwhile- maybe if you neck it down to 7.62x39 or possibly even as far down as 7.62x25, I'd be interested in it in that format. as it is, it's a decent battle rifle that nobody likes to carry for more than 10 miles.

05-16-2006, 09:59 AM	#15
gonzo454 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 111	I also would have a tendency to go with a “Sniper” set up…I just got mine but I plan to make it as much like a PSG-1 as possible, while I agree with the idea of “true” sniper rifles being bolt action I also like to see an ability for quick, multiple follow up shots, for this reason I have always thought of the M1A as a viable “sniper” option as well. The single most important reason to chose a bolt over any thing else is because historically they have been more accurate, so if I can get bolt groups with an auto…what then is the hold up??? Personally I say there is no hold up, have the 20 rnd mags with rapid follow up shots, and a quick reload, Oh and a really hot looking rifle to boot. But that is just my opinion.