Cetme's...good or bad...

[NRAJOE]

At the last gunshow I was sorely tempted to buy a CETME for $375 with wood furniture and stainless steel receiver from CENTURY done in black. It was very nice looking but I always hear the horror stories of these things jamming, but some people have some that they swear by and have never had a problem with theirs....what say you about these rifles?

Get one? Pros...cons? Thanks....

[Big Dog]

Joe, do a quick search on CETME, back a few months or so. We've discussed them a lot. You know I'm a big lover of these fine Spanish rifles! 'Muy Bueno, Senor!'

[BattleRifleG3]

I'm a G3 fan, so CETMEs are my kin, but for that caliber,less money, and higher accuracy, you can get a Saiga 308. None of the CETME's problems, usually has 1.5moa accuracy, and is as reliable as any AK. Only limitation is hi-caps, but there are solutions out there and more to come (including my G3 mag adaptor system.)

[Big Dog]

If it's still available at that price, you might want to scarf it up. The Century Monkey's have run dry on kits now, so prices will start climbing fast. They are already well over four bills at our gunshows down here!
Mine has been "AK Reliable" - but most problems are fixable. The guys over on Gunboards' CETME forum can walk you thru any probs.
Spare mags are available as cheap as $1.95 apiece, virtually brand new!
1.5 MOA, yeppers. With the ammo it likes, I have gotten under an inch!
Recoils like an AK - very manageable. Can be bump fired too!

[Mandy]

:assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

In short, get it !!!!

Most problems with Cetmes and G3s can be solved with some cleaning, just make sure that the flutes at the chamber are clean and you should probably be fine.

If it's a used rifle, chances are the bugs have been worked out by the previous owner.

My G3 shoots great and all my friends with Cetmes are very happy with them, they swear by them and won't change them for another 308.

Some people complain about the recoil, I find the recoil much less than a Rem 700 in 308, for a full size cal rifle I'm amazed of the low recoil it produces, I can shoot all day long these rifles and I'll be sore from lugging it around, but my shoulder would be like nothing happened.

My only complaint about these rifles, is that they're heavy, I don't picture myself lugging one of these around in a combat zone, but can be tuned for sniper duty with the right ammo and scope.

:uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

[akDom]

I shot my friends and I liked it alot. But it is the only 308 I have ever shot and it did jam with certian ammo. It also lost a little nob or bolt while we were out in the desert and we had to cock it with a screw driver.

FYI - AK reliable means that the gun never jams and it shoots all ammo with no problems and needs little to zero maintenence.

[gunssb]

Originally Posted by akDom

I shot my friends and I liked it alot.

sorry offtopic but am I the only one who didn't read this right ?

[Big Dog]

Yep, a good CETME can indeed be "AK Reliable" - mine is. The only problem I have encountered was one bad magazine, a 30-rounder I bought off an internet source. With the original steel CETME mags and the HK alloy mags, it's been totally reliable, runs like a Timex!
If you buy one, the FIRST step you must do, is to field strip it, and get all the Monkey Crap out of it. I treated the inside of the receiver and the bolt/carrier assembly with Militec-1, a metal conditioner that slicks it up nicely.
Cleaning and relubing with a good gun oil are then very easily done.

[akDom]

Can you put over 1000 rounds througt a Cetme without cleaning it, and never have it jam? I have with my AK.

[TULAver]

You know, just because you can abuse a good gun and still have it operate reliably, doesn't mean that you should abuse it. My dog's got a metabolism that is so efficient he could survive off of a single bowl of food a week, but I'm not about to test that.

Carbon fouling has a nasty way of hiding bad things. The AK is reliable so that it will work in conditions where cleaning is not an option. That's the intent there.

Even the finicky AR system will operate 100% of the time if it's properly maintained, as EVERY firearm should be, regardless of it's inherent reliability.

The roller locking delayed blowback is known to be every bit as reliable as the AK, that's why the system has been so popular with military and especially special forces around the world. But it does, as all firearms do, require simple maintenance. Clean the flutes, oil the rollers, check headspacing every once in a while to determine wear/when you need to move up to larger rollers. Isn't that about it on the Cetme/G3 design?

If you're getting a .308 autoloader that you intend to mistreat, then a Saiga is probably your best bet. I dunno, I was taught to take care of my stuff, no matter how cheap it was. Guess that's why I got so little spare time in my spare time..

[BattleRifleG3]

G3/CETMEs' roller delayed blowback system is affected differently by fouling than the AK or FAL or any gas operated semi-auto. On the one hand, the G3s are known for their reliability in adverse conditions. On the other hand, by design, the fouling buildup does have the potential to really hinder a G3. Consider that it uses rollers applying high forces to surfaces that accumulate fouling. And consider that the G3 blows tons of it into the receiver.

The advantage to the G3 design is high accuracy due to straight line lockup of parts with some independence. In my opinion, headspacing and other potential issues with the CETME negate many of its advantages. If you manage to get a good one, good for you. It will need care to keep running properly.

A Saiga 308, on the other hand, is as reliable as any AK and can digest a wide range of ammo. It also gets accuracy that only the best CETMEs can match (G3s are generally much better.) Its main handicap is mag capacity, price, and availability at the moment.

Basically, my G3 is set up with a bipod and a scope for a reason. Saiga 308s are generally more accurate when using open sites due to receiver flexibility. My Saiga 308 was 100% reliable until I used it for my G3 magazine conversion. Now I'm tweaking it to hopefully restore good reliability with hi-cap mags.

[BattleRifleG3]

So as far as what I'd use it for, I'd take it through heck and back, but I wouldn't run through a thousand rounds without cleaning.

[Shaun]

JOe simply put buy the rifle and enjoy

[PAPA G]

Originally Posted by Shaun

JOe simply put buy the rifle and enjoy

he didn't...if he did Nrajoe would have been doing the CETME happy dance

[rodekill]

I have a buddies 3 guns amoung them, the one I've got to shoot is sweet!
century arms whith plastic furniture, and a muzzle brake, biggest problem the"ve had is magazines.
the G3 "will fit" but not just right has to be altered a little. Real CETME clips work fine. I picked up some for 1 guy last year at alocal show for $4 apiece.
WATCH the muzzle blast -- he actually cut his foam case liner from 18 inches away

[Big Dog]

Yep, the GI blanket I put on the bench has a CETME sized burn hole thru it!
Just don't shoot prone in the dry grass . . . :insane:

[MAX7.62]

Go for it Joe, I can help you fix any of the normal things that need fixed, it ain't no big deal.

With all those AK's around, you need something in the locker that can get out to a thousand when the dirtbags get out of AK range!

[akDom]

What is the difference between a Cetme and a G3?

[Big Dog]

CETME was the original German-designed, Spanish-built Assault Rifle produced just after WWII. The designers had worked on the earlier German Stg44/MP44 designs, and the very first CETME used an intermediate cartridge, but later developments used the newly introduced 7.62X51 cartridge. CETME Modelo A used a lighter loading, Modelo B and C used the full-power NATO load.
Later, when West Germany needs to upgrade their smallarms, they looked at several designs. One such was the Belgian FAL, produced as the G1. Apparently, it wasn't too successful, as Germany refined the CETME design to produce the HK G3 series.
Some parts interchange between CETME and G3 but most do not. G3 is said to have heavier recoil, as the CETME has a stiffer recoil spring. Many owners do put the HK furniture (stock and handguard) on their CETMEs, as well as using HK scope mounts and other accessories.
Both the CETME and HK G3 as produced for the sporting market today use certain milsurp parts on the same US-made receiver. As the parts kits for the CETME are running out, expect prices to begin rising - eventually they will be more expensive than the G3 clones.

[BattleRifleG3]

Good info, Big Dog! The only correction I'd offer is that the main reason the Germans didn't adopt the FAL as the G1 was that Belgium wasn't too cozy allowing their former occupier to use their rifle. The G2 was the SIG assault rifle that looks really wierd and I'm not too familiar with, and the G4 was their designation for the American M16.

Think of it this way: G is used for German Army rifles like we use M for ours. The M14 was called the T-something before it was given the designation of M14. If the FAL or AR-10 were chosen, they would have been called the M14. The AR-15 (the original term for Armalite's full auto 223 rifle) was likewise called the M16. You'll often notice me referring to the military rifle as the AR-15 system.

The way to relate that back to HK is that HK's model numbers using the same roller delay design with the same basic configuration with some parts interchangeability all used a number code. The first digit indicated whether it was:
1.) MG
2.) LMG
3.) Assault rifle
4.) Paramilitary Rifle
5.) Submachinegun
9.) Sporting rifle

The second digit chambering designations were:
1.) 7.62x51mm NATO
2.) 7.62x39mm Soviet
3.) 5.56x45mm NATO
4.) 9x19mm Luger/Parabellum

So the HK name for the G3 was the HK-31, as the HK-54 was called the MP5 by the German forces who used it. The first HK G3 type rifles to come ti the US were called HK-41, then it was changed to 91 to better please the ATF. The HK-53 looks like an MP5 but fires 5.56x45 ammo. The HK-32 models in X39 were only prototyped. All American semi versions are original to the states. The HK-51 likewise was never produced, but the name was chosen for the short barreled 7.62 NATO versions of the G3 here in the states. There are numerous modifications and exceptions, but this was the general naming convention.

Now that the roller delay blowback system is being abandoned for new designs, those naming conventions are pretty much stuck with the existing rifles. Note that a G in the name is completely different than just HK, like the G41 (a version of the HK-33 with a longer barrel, forward assist, and using M16 mags) is not an HK-41.