Yep you read that right. In the October issue of Shooting Illustrated magazine there is an article where the author tests 14 different SD loads in the S&W Body Guard .380acp. Out of the 14 loads tested the Buffalo Bore+P 100gr Hard Cast LFN penetrated 31"+ through the 10% Gel. Well the standard green and yellow box Remington 88gr hp also penetrated the same but only because they failed to expand at the lower velocity from the small S&W. Now I know from first hand experience that hard cast bullets will penetrate deeper than most other bullets but out of such a little package I wasn't expecting to read 31" of penetration. The article was pretty informative and the author had a theroy of how the .380acp was exactly 75% dimensionally to the .45acp and was designed that way by John Browning.
I know there are going to be those that will say that Ballistic Gel isn't the same as human tissue and actual results would be different but this is one way to see how the bullet will perform in "like" tissue.
Anyway I found this interesting and thought I would share it with you.
For such a supposed sissy round I'm impressed. I won't be getting rid of my 380's anytime soon.
I like this guys test. Seeing is believing. jeffr168's Channel - YouTube
I am a fan of hard cast bullets. particularlly the semi wad cutter design. I use them for hunting with good results and also use them in my self defence loads when the bullets are availiable. I wish I could find 9mm lswc bullets to load in my 9x19 & .380.
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It's entirely ok with me if the little pill penetrates the skin and bounces around inside the perp's body cavity awhile...
Nope, no problem with that at all.
I like the .380 for sd, but I would choose a bigger caliber for a full scale gun fight.
Heck, if James Bond can get by with a .32; I can get by with a .380.
I keep Hornady CD in my LCP. They have good pen and expansion. 32 inches seems unnecessary unless you are shooting santa clause in the gut. I have always read the ideal SD penetration is between 14 and 16 inches. It will bust up organs and leave most its payload inside the target.
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I've been pushing Buffalo Bore for a while. Their SD loads are VERY impressive for short barreled pistols. They outdo the rest on pure power. I'd love to see them use some HSTs or other heavy duty HPs. The 9mm HSTs would be about right for their .380 and .38spl +P loads.
Location: In the hard woods - next to a pond in Missouri
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Cast bullets are great. I haven't shot to see how many water bottles or gelatin but I do shoot into most of the time 1.25-1.75" of wood and then into my paper and tire back stop. They cut nice holes and deform. Just started shooting 125 grain swc's sized to 356 in a PPK.
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I alternate the BB JHP and HC rounds in my 238--wasn't much of a .380 fan a while back but this gun gives .38 snubbie ballistics, is flat, accurate, has a decent trigger and nice sights, a mini-1911, and easy to carry in the summer. The HC are good if you don't get enough penetration from the JHP, and I fully believe the numbers you said; BB ammo in some calibers is pretty impressive. DO function test it in YOUR gun, though (it works fine in my .380).
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The .380 is also known as the 9mm Kurz or short. It served for a great many years as the premier LE round in many European countries. It is not something to be taken lightly.
America being America, we always tend to think bigger is better. While this may be true some of the time, it is definitely not true all of the time, and the .380 is a case in point.
Yeah, a 9x19 can hit harder than the .380, as can many other rounds. But the .380 can be had in smaller lighter and more easily concealed and handled weapons, hence it's extreme popularity with the concealed carry crowd.
There are certainly better calibers out there for self defense. .380 isn't my first choice in a defensive situation either but I have no problem carrying one for personal protection either.
I just found it hard to believe that such a small caliber could penetrate that much. It goes to show that you shouldn't under estimate pipsqueks.
I'd trust my life to anything with a great name brand on it, semi, revolver, derringer, etc. I'd even trust lesser brands with simpler pistols, like a revolver. I could write a long list, but I'll leave it at that.
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Location: In the hard woods - next to a pond in Missouri
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The PPKs is fine with the 380. I have 3 in 380 and 2 in 32. I have one 380 that was not as reliable because of the feed ramp. It is fine after having it worked on. The new PPKs weapons are excellent IMO. I have a German 1945 PP in 32acp which I way overload. I am shooting 90 grains at 900fps. I wouldn't shoot them that hard in a newer keltec. I shoot cast in it. It is point of aim.
The only drawback is that they are are an older design trying to compete against modern ultralight designs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper17
I would take a .32 either in the original Walther PP or PPK or PPK/S over the .380 in auto.
I would take a .32 SW Long (New Police Cobra) along with a .38 (Cobra) in revolver over .380 or anything listed above.
The .380 in the Walther PP series (PP, PPK, PPK/S) is unreliable in .380 which was an afterthought.
The .32 or .38 revolver has sufficient power less auto malfunction statistics for me to rather rely upon a revolver and forget the small pocket auto.
Use the small pocket revolver in .32 or .38 and be safe.
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The PPKs is fine with the 380. I have 3 in 380 and 2 in 32. I have one 380 that was not as reliable because of the feed ramp. It is fine after having it worked on. The new PPKs weapons are excellent IMO. I have a German 1945 PP in 32acp which I way overload. I am shooting 90 grains at 900fps. I wouldn't shoot them that hard in a newer keltec. I shoot cast in it. It is point of aim.
The only drawback is that they are are an older design trying to compete against modern ultralight designs.
A reliable .380 in PPK or PPK/S is worth keeping and exceptionally worthy of posting on any forum. I had 4 or 5 PPK or PPK/S's in .380 and I had one that I bought 5 extra magazines for because it worked every time. It was an SW Houlton model with the extended spur under the hammer and it worked EVERYTIME I am not kidding and I loved it. One day I went out and shot it and it malfunctioned at least once per magazine and then I lost my dream of owning a .380 in PPK/S or any other Walther PP series not the recent plastic models but the real Walther models of PP fame.
Then I got a Manhurin PP in .32 which I did later sell only for monetary reasons. It was perfect as a Walther type as well as all German Walthers I've owned in .32.
Later I ran into a gunsmith who told me the .380 was an "afterthought" to the .32 ACP in the Walther PP or PPK or PPK/S and it all made sense to me.
I would not trust a .380 in a Walther PP or PPK or PPK/S for the simple reason it is an afterthought like the .40 SW in a Browning Hi Power or CZ-75 or Beretta M9.
Bigger is not always better. What is better is perfect function. Accuracy is nothing without perfect function.
WOW Im sad now. I have owned many handguns from colts, beretta, and sig (never any glocks) and I now own a walther pk380. I have so far LOVED it better than any of those I just mention. 1. its very light 2. NEVER one jam in it 3. Looks are appealing 4. Every gun store owner here that I have deault with said for the money are absolutly awesome firearm with no customer complaints or returns. and 5. did I mention Light. I have a mmp 40 s&w and it isnt not accurate as my walther at 24-50 yards no matter what ammo I feed
WOW Im sad now. I have owned many handguns from colts, beretta, and sig (never any glocks) and I now own a walther pk380. I have so far LOVED it better than any of those I just mention. 1. its very light 2. NEVER one jam in it 3. Looks are appealing 4. Every gun store owner here that I have deault with said for the money are absolutly awesome firearm with no customer complaints or returns. and 5. did I mention Light. I have a mmp 40 s&w and it isnt not accurate as my walther at 24-50 yards no matter what ammo I feed
Then go with that pistol. It was made right and it works.
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