[Ruger 10/22]

I own a DA/SA.
The first shot can be double action and every following shot will be in single action.(unless im carrying Cocked and Locked, its NOT a 1911, but I can carry it like one)

All I see listed as far as 1911s go are SAO, to confirm that means I can start in Condition 1(chambered, hammer back and safety on) and every shot, including the first will be SA, right?

And DAO is similar to glock, pull, to cock=>fire.

I know what the terms are but, when I picture something that says SAO, all i picture is a Colt SAA. last I checked, i didnt have to cock the hammer on a 1911 for every shot...

[BaserRonin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Ruger 10/22

I own a DA/SA. The first shot can be double action and every following shot will be in single action.(unless im carrying Cocked and Locked, its NOT a 1911, but I can carry it like one) All I see listed as far as 1911s go are SAO, to confirm that means I can start in Condition 1(chambered, hammer back and safety on) and every shot, including the first will be SA, right? And DAO is similar to glock, pull, to cock=>fire. I know what the terms are but, when I picture something that says SAO, all i picture is a Colt SAA. last I checked, i didnt have to cock the hammer on a 1911 for every shot...

You are correct on all counts. I threw in another example or two below.

SA/DA, you are correct there. A lot of semi-auto's will allow you to start with the hammer down and do a long pull to shoot that first round DA. Semi autos with a decocker will allow this almost always. Follow up shots are SA because the slide has already cocked the hammer. Most revolvers with an external hammer are SA/DA. The Ruger RedHawk, most S&W's, etc.

Correct, Single action only on 1911's (so far as I know!). With SAO autos, you have to cock the hammer the first time (Condition 1 carrying as you described), then the slide action performs subsequent cocking until it falls on an empty chamber. Another example is single action revolvers, where you have to manually cock the hammer each time. Ruger Blackhawk is an example.

You DAO is correct also. Internal hammers and internal strikers that always reset to the same position. Another example is revolvers with internal hammers.

[DaTeacha]

SA and DA refer to what the trigger has to do when you pull it. If all it does is release the hammer so it falls and fires the cartridge, that's SA. If it moves the hammer back and then releases it, it's DA, the two actions being cocking and dropping the hammer - or striker for those poor souls who don't appreciate hammers.

So far as I'm concerned, a handgun should have an external hammer that you can manually thumb back if the need arises. Also, SFAIC, any gun claiming to be a 1911 or clone will not have a DA pull. If it does, then it may be styled after the 1911, but it's a lame imitation.

[TXplt]

The waters get muddier. A Glock is `considered` a DAO so LE can carry it but in practice it is not--it is its own animal and different from any other trigger. Same as for the Taurus glock-like triggers which are kind of like a glock but different (a little lighter at first with a definitive `stage.` The HK LEM is its own animal as well, but does handle much like a DAO but is not.

Lots of semantics--the key is to evaluate trigger on the gun YOU like and will fit YOUR shooting purposes. A 1911 is a 1911 and different than the SA trigger on a short reset Sig 220 after being fired in DA mode--again they are all different in some form or another and it comes down to personal preference and what you can shoot well for the mission and task at hand. Striker, hammer, whizbang guts for me really don`t matter it all comes down to how does it handle and how can I shoot it.

I personally found the transition from the longer DA pull to the shorter SA stroke of a traditional double action (Beretta 92; Bersa; Walther; Sig, etc) to be difficult and of questionable value--just personal preference. Some like safety levers; some do not (there are worthwhile arguments on both sides--some have difficulties with levers in times of stress; bad guys usually do too and have trouble `turning on` guns with safeties). I like the 1911 trigger (and love my Sig C3 as a carry gun) but usually carry a DAK Sig 239 if I am doing alot of revolver carrying/shooting for consistency.

I can shoot a G17 better than almost all of my other guns (own a G26 as well) so I grit my teeth out of deference to the funny feeling, strange blocky grip but infinitely reliable, accurate, and great shooting Austrian wonder.

[Jim Rau]

DA is when you pull the trigger two thing happen.
1. The firing mechanism is charged (cocked).
2. The firing mechanism is released (the gun fires)
The happens EVERY time you pull the trigger.
Many pistols a 'marketed' a DAO but they are not. If they do not the 'double strike' capability they are NOT DAO!!!!! If they require the slide to be moved to the rear to cock/reset the firing mechanism they are Single Action Only.
Marketing is like politics, you have actually think to unravel the 'spin'!

[jashoffa]

Okay I hate to muddy the waters any more but I think we are a little off on some counts....

Okay, single action (SA) means you have to cock the hammer before you shoot. colt single action army, 1911 are examples.

Double action (DA) in revolvers most of the time can either have an exposed hammer or not. In the case of exposed hammer you can either shoot double action or cock the hammer and shot single action if the hammer isn't exposed or "bobbed" then it functions double action only DOA A Smith and Wesson 686 would be an example of the former, not sure on model number for an example of the former, Jerry Michilack shoots a revolver with a bobbed hammer.

Double action/single action (DA/SA) is really only used to describe semi-autos. This is where the gun is normally carried hammer down, you can pull the trigger and shoot in double action mode the slide cycles and then cocks the hammer for follow up shots which are now shot in single action mode. These guns can also normally be cocked and shot single action mode if desired. examples are: Sig P220, Smith and Wesson 5906 and Beretta 92FS.

Double action only (DAO) also really only used for semi-autos is where there is normally an internal hammer also Sig has been known to make double action only pistols with exposed hammers). In these guns, like stated, require the trigger to cock and release the hammer on every shot. Examples include Ruger LCP and KelTec P11.

Now we come to Striker fired guns. The best known of which is Glock. These guns are sometimes miss labeled as DAO but in truth they are not. They are not really Single action only either. They are a different design that some miss identify. They really don't have a hammer as we traditionally think of a gun's hammer. They have to have the slide cycled in order to set or cock the striker that is under spring tension. When the trigger is pulled the striker is released kind of like a hammer is released but different. As stated you can't pull the trigger a 2nd time without cycling the slide to cock the gun. Examples include the before mentioned Glock, Springfield XD, Ruger SR9 etc....Most newer polymer guns are striker fired but not all.




this comes up all the time, I know I didn't do the best at explaining it all but I hope I didn't misstate anything. This really should be made a sticky at some point.

[shop tom]

IMHO, VFC.

tom

[Magius]

Quote:       Originally Posted by jashoffa

Okay I hate to muddy the waters any more but I think we are a little off on some counts....

Actually, the times are a changin'. With the proliferation of more DAO revolvers traditional DA revolvers are now being called SA/DA.

For example, Smith and Wesson's website describes the Bodyguard as DAO, and their traditional J/K/L/N/X Frame revolvers as SA/DA.

And for the sake of muddying the water a little more. some DAO Semi Autos, like the LCP and PF-9, do have an external hammer.

I agree with Jim Rau that if the trigger doesn't cock and release a striker every time it's not really true Double Action. Some people, myself included, call the split trigger / striker fired semi autos "Safe Actions."

Since most of the tupperware genre pistols copy the Glock action to some degree that was pretty straight forward. However, the Croats had to go and complicate things even further requiring even more disambiguation.
Now Glock type mechanisms are Double Action Safe Action, and the XD is a Single Action Safe Action.

Personally, I don't get too caught up in the semantics. With the advent of more and more firing mechanisms there will likely be more "specific" terminology to describe actions. But I'm not going to argue with someone who calls a Glock a DA or DAO. Whatever. It's all good, so long as they go "Bang" when the trigger is pulled.