CZ 75 vs. FN Hi Power?

[Militant Maniac]

Which is a better buy/ better gun. I am in the market for a 9mm but I am having trouble making up my mind! I have held both and they feel about the same its hard to make a decision since I never personally shot one off. Any thoughts?

[GUNRUNNER]

I'd think FN Hi-power...been wanting one FN bad!

Originally Posted by Stephen A. Camp

Hello. Made for a few years during the '80s, the FN Competition Model is no longer produced by FN...or anyone else that I can find.
Some parts will interchange with the standard Hi Power models, while some are unique to the Competition only. The hammer hooks differ a bit in their height from the standard versions though a standard hammer could be used if needed and the magazine disconnect is in the frame rather than the trigger and does not interfere with the trigger pull. It has the small, classic HP thumbsafety and is not ambidextrous. Stocks were Pachmayrs. Finish is a dull olive green parkerized finish on this gun, but I'm told that some were black. Mine was not imported by Browning, but by Cassi.

The frame and slide are the same size as for the "regular" HP, but the gun has a 6" bbl that has flats on the sides near the muzzle and is threaded for a nut that in conjunction with two screws, holds a muzzle weight with integral front sight onto the extended bbl.

Rear sight is click adjustable for windage and elevation, but is about the goofiest looking thing I've seen. It appears to be made of spring steel as the sight itself provides upward pressure against the elevation screw via a tab extending from the sight to the top of the slide. It's not the sturdiest looking thing, but if the gun's intended only for the target range, I guess it'll have to do. In any case, it does work and holds zero when set.

The front sight is a non-serrated post integral to the muzzle weight. In the picture, though out of focus, you can see the opposing screws and the nut on the muzzle weight.

Front sight:



Rear sight:



Test Gun: Though a stock gun is described above, the gun I used is very lightly modified.

Its original spur hammer has been slightly bobbed to prevent hammer bite.

It's now wearing Spegel blk, checkered, delrin stocks.

Magazine disconnect is gone. (I know it didn't effect the trigger pull, but I do NOT like these things.)

A factory extended thumbsafety was fitted to the gun. The right-side safety lever's been removed with the pin dressed down as I don't care for ambis on the HP.

It has a standard strength, factory recoil spring in it as well as a Buffer Technology shock buffer. The recoil spring that comes on the Comp is lighter than the standard as the extra weight on the end of the longer bbl does slow unlocking. The standard spring worked fine with standard pressure and one +P load.

In this picture, you can see the gun's "left" side with the extended factory safety, Spegel stocks, and bobbed hammer.



Here's the other side.



The serial number's not on the front of the grip strap, but on the ejection port-side of the slide and frame.

Ammunition: Eight types of ammunition were used with the pistol today in two different bullet weights.

Federal 115 gr standard velocity JHP ("9BP")
Federal 124 gr M882 FMJ
Federal 124 gr Nyclad Hollow Point
Handload: 124 gr Rainier PRN over 6.9 gr Blue Dot
Winchester USA 115 gr FMJ
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ
PMC 115 gr FMJ
Corbon 124 gr +P "Bonded" JHP (Gold Dot JHP)

The picture below shows the 10-shot groups fired two-hand hold, standing at 15 yards. I had assumed I'd find one that outgrouped the others. I think the Federal 115 gr JHP did, but the human error present could be masking the true accuracy load of these. Data is visible for the handload as well as which maker's ammo was grouped where. (The three pasters on the left side of the picture didn't stick to the cardboard and had been stapled, but were removed by the impacts. That's why you see only holes on that side. A flyer is noted. The rest felt "right."



These two groups were also fired at 15 yards and the ammunition used is visible in the picture. Note: Only 7 rounds of the Corbon was used. (I only had 17 rnds with me and needed the other 10 for another target test.)



All of the ammunition shot very well for me and all group well enough for my purposes. Cases with the standard velocity loads landed in a neat cluster about 5' to my right while the +P load about doubled that distance.

I am not a good enough shot to say for sure what is the best load fired today.

Observations:

The gun's reliable with all rounds fired today as well as some other JHPs (Triton, Winchester, handloads, Hornady, etc) I've fired in the past and the thing "shoots." Recoil from the already-low recoil 9x19mm round is somewhat less, but muzzle flip is greatly reduced. It occurred to me that while the pistol's not designed for it, it could do double-duty as a home defense pistol. To that end, the following target consists of 5 sets of controlled pairs fired from a Weaver stance @ 10 yards.



That's where I used the last 10 Corbons. This thing's a shooting machine and the notch in the rear sight is wide enough to find the front sight at speed. I did NOT have a timer, but would estimate each pair was fired in around a second. There was no draw and I started from a "high ready" position.

A while back, I happened to've chronographed some of the same ammunition brands used today out of the longer bbl. Ten-shot averages fired from 10':

Winchester USA 115 gr FMJ: 1223 ft/sec
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ: 1287 ft/sec
124 gr Federal Nyclad HP: 1190 ft/sec
Handload (See above): 1308 ft/sec

If this pistol were to be used for defense, I'd likely use either the Federal 115 gr JHP or the Nyclad. With the longer bbl, you get into +P velocities.

If you like Hi Powers and want an accurate pistol for the range or small game hunting, I think this one is definitely worth looking at. They can be found.

Best.

:target:

Originally Posted by Stephen A. Camp

Hello. This report is not significantly different than the one done earlier on a different Pre-B.

For that reason, this report will be shorter, primarily focusing on the pistol which has had different sights added. There is more detailed information on the ammunition fired as well as some recovered, expanded rounds fired into water.

The Pistol: This is a CZ-75 I bought in the early '80's NIB and for considerably more than one can buy a CZ-75 today, "B" or Pre-B. They were just flat hard to come by then and I just had to have one or die. You all know the syndrome.

This pistol has had no work done on the trigger, but Kurt Wickman did install a set of Novak fixed sights, plain black on black and I've had the barrel and some internal parts hard chromed. Mr. Wickman refinished the slide as well and I'm more than satisfied with his work.


This CZ-75 has really had little done to it. It has Novak fixed sights using the rear sight meant for the 1911 as the CZ has a relatively high rear sight for the height of the front sight. The slide was refinished with polished blue slide flats and matte blue on top. This one has an 18-lb. Wolff conventional recoil spring and a buffer. I've removed the bow from the "magazine brake" and the magazine will fall freely if so desired and the hammer spur's been bobbed a bit. The grips are CZ factory wooden ones.

Ammunition:

Today's shooting involved only factory ammo with bullets weighing from 65 to 127 grains. The average velocities shown are based on 10-shot strings fired approximately 10' from the chronograph screens.


Aguila 65-gr. IQ HP:
Average Velocity: 1492

Corbon 100-gr. PowRball +P:
Average Velocity: 1431

PMP 115-gr. FMJ:
Average Velocity: 1076

Remington 115-gr. UMC FMJ:
Average Velocity: 1186

Federal 115-gr. JHP:
Average Velocity: 1151

Fiocchi 115-gr. FMJ:
Average Velocity: 1163

Fiocchi 123-gr. FMJTC:
Average Velocity: 1061

Hornady 124-gr. CQ (XTP) JHP:
Average Velocity: 1153

Federal 124-gr. Nyclad HP:
Average Velocity: 1162

Triton 125-gr. Hi Vel JHP+P:
Average Velocity: 1266

Corbon 125-gr. JHP +P:
Average Velocity: 1194

Winchester 127-gr. RA9TA JHP +P+:
Average Velocity: 1285

All of these loads grouped well. Out of this particular pistol the largest standard deviation was with the Winchester 127-gr. load and was 29 ft/sec. The smallest was from the Corbon 125-gr. JHP.

Shooting: It was hot today and I did NOT do any fifty-yard shooting.
The shots fired at 15 and 25 yards were done in slow fire and single-action. The group fired at 25 yards was also done seated with my forearms and wrists braced. The 10 yard target was fired with the first shot being fired DA and that shot is marked...as is the "miss."

15 Yards: Each group consists of 5 shots.





25 Yards: This group was fired with some ammunition I've not used in the past, the Fiocchi 123-gr. FMJTC "Combat" load. I have no idea why they call it "combat" as I suspect it's no better than standard ball.



10 Yards: Eight sets of controlled pairs were fired with the first set starting double-action. That was NOT the miss. It occurred firing single-action and was my fault.



I also fired the relatively new Corbon 100-gr. "PowRball" into water as well as the Hornady 124-gr. "CQ."


The PowRball expanded to 0.65x0.66" and the recovered bullet weighed 77.4 grains. No jacket was found. The 124-gr. Hornady bullet which acts just exactly like their XTP weighed 120.1 grains and the bullet expanded to 0.52x0.54." Each "weight" includes the fragment next to the recovered bullet.

Observations: In this heat, the wide, smooth front grip strap of the CZ did become mighty slick and I were I using this pistol for serious purposes, I'd probably have it stippled or at least do the skateboard tape.
There were zero malfunctions with ejection positive with all of the loads fired.

It's my belief that the CZ-75 or the "B" version remain extremely reliable and accurate handguns that are very viable choices for either the range, home protection, or carry.

Best.

PS: If interested, there's a very detailed post on the CZ-75 found at:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ75.htm

:target:

[lefty o]

the cz may be cheaper, but the hi power is the better buy. of course i am a hi power snob so you cant totally trust what i say.

[Bookman]

This is a tough call. A very tough call. I'm every bit as much a Hi-Power fan as Lefty, but I've shot a CZ-75 several times and it's a great gun. Honestly, I think you'll be happy with either one.

[Militant Maniac]

Thanks for all that info Logansdad I knew I would be able to get some good info at this forum. I still haven't made up my mind yet although I am leaning towards that CZ but I really love the feel of the hi power. Worst comes to worst I will probably break down and buy both! :gangster:

Originally Posted by Militant Maniac

Thanks for all that info Logansdad

thanks actually belong to Mr Camp :target: but I'm sure he'd be happy that his posts helped :right:

[DANA]

Love my Hi-Power

DANA

[Troy]

Stephen provided the same info to me when i was considering the purchase of my CZ75. There were other fellas who were a big help too. So i bought the CZ and I absolutely love it. Unfortunately i know nothing of the FN, so I am not knocking it, just haven't had the pleasure of getting to know one. I'm telling ya, for my limited experience the 75 rocks.

it would have been a hard choice for me..unless I found a hard chrome or nickel plated hi power.. :target: those are more rust resistant..I can still rust them though :target:

The CZ-75 pistol was developed by the Koucky brothers, who worked at the state-owned arms factory Ceska Zbrojovka in the city of Uhersky Brod (Czechoslovakia, now Czech republic). This full-size semiautomatic pistol first appeared in the 1975, and the production began circa 1976. CZ-75 was obviously intended for the export market. The CZ-75 accumulated best features from many preceding designs. Resulting pistol was aesthetically attractive, comfortable to handle and shoot, quite accurate and reliable in operation. Made by CZ in various versions and modifications, CZ-75 was also widely copied and cloned. Most popular of CZ-75 copies are (or were) made by: IMI (Jericho-941, Israel), Tanfoglio (TZ-75, TZ-90, T-95, Italy), Sarsilmaz (M2000, Turkey), ITM (AT-88, Swiss), Sphinx (mod.2000, Swiss), Norinco (NZ-75, China), Springfield (P9, USA).

CZ-75 is now in service with Czech police (in the form of compact CZ-75 P-01). It is also used by Turkish police, and by several police departments in USA. By opinions of most experts, CZ-75 is one of the best combat pistols in its class.

CZ-75 is a short recoil operated, locked breech pistol. It uses a fairy standard Browning locking system, with cam-shaped cut below the barrel, which lowers the barrel on recoil stroke. Barrel locks into slide with two locking lugs, located just ahead of the ejection port. The slide rides on the internal rails, machined on inside of the frame. This system, originated by the Swiss SIG P210 pistol, provides more smooth cycle and better tolerances, resulting in greater accuracy. In basic models, the double action trigger system with exposed hammer has a frame mounted manual safety, which allows for "cocked and locked" carry. Since the late 1980s, all CZ-75 type pistols are fitted with internal firing pin safety. Models with firing pin safety are indicated with "B" index, for example CZ-75B, CZ-75BD. All full-size CZ-75 have all-steel construction; several compact models, including CZ-75 P-01, have aluminum frames with steel slides.

There are several variations of the trigger system, available in various models. First is decock-only system (frame-mounted decocker lever, with no manual safety, in models CZ-75BD, CZ-75 BD Compact, CZ-75 P-01). Second is the Double action only system, with no manual safety and spur-less hammer (models CZ-75DAO). Third is the Single action system, with manual frame mounted safety, intended mostly for sport shooting under IPSC rules (CZ-75SA). In all versions, manual safety or decocking lever is located only at the left side of the frame, as well as the slide stop. The completely ambidextrous version of the CZ-75 is the CZ-85, described in the separate article.

Standard models of CZ-75 are fitted with fixed sights, with the rear sight being dovetailed into the slide. "Combat" and IPSC models are fitted with adjustable rear sights.

The Semi-compact models of CZ-75 have the same frame as basic guns, but have slide and barrel shortened by 20mm (.78 inch); Compact models also have shorter grip frame, which holds only 13 rounds of ammunition (standard magazines will also fit, but will protrude from the bottom of the grip).

The CZ-75 P-01, which is a standard gun for Czech police since 2001, is based on the Cz-75BD Compact, but also featured an accessory rail under the barrel, which is usually fitted with tactical flashlight.

Probably most rare version of the CZ-75 is the CZ-75 Automatic, a selective-fire version of the basic pistol, which can fire either in semi-auto or in full auto, with rate of fire about 1,000 rounds per minute. The CZ-75 Automatic first appeared circa 1992, and is intended for special police and military forces. To help control the gun, a spare magazine can be fitted upside down into special holder under the barrel; it then serve as a front grip. Early models of CZ-75 Automatic were fitted with longer barrels with integral compensators; latest models have standard barrels.

Early models of CZ-75 were offered with 15-round double stack magazines; present models are offered with 16-rounds magazines (9 mm full-size models), 12-rounds magazines (.40SW models) or with 13-rounds magazines (9mm Compact models).

from http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg51-e.htm

Originally Posted by lefty o

the cz may be cheaper, but the hi power is the better buy

the CZ is cheaper because it is nowhere near as good a pistol as the Hi Power :target:

[practical]

The CZ comes in DA decocker though.

I have both..the CZ-75 is nowhere near as nice a sidearm

[Outriderdark]

Two things I always look at when I can't decide between guns is the commonality of it ie: Which one will be easiest to find parts for, repair, find aftermarket for, etc. - and which one has the longest frontline history (if there is one). I think the hi-power wins on those two counts.