380 acp

[7mmag6]

I purchased a Bersa 380 thunder for my mother as a home self defense weapon, not bieng very familier with this caliber I was not impressed with it. Seems kinda puny to me but its better than a 22 I geuss. My mom is 76 years old but very active and strong. I think maybe I should have gone with a 9mm of some sort. Whats the history of this caliber? maybe Im just jaded with the old reliable 45. Kind of funny when we were looking at them the salesman tried to sell her a taser saying maybe this is right for you at your age, my mom replied" sonny my dad was a marine in ww1, do you honestly think any sob who breaks in my house is going out alive' should have seen the look on his face

[jamesfaync]

my personal advise. dont worry too much about the caliber just make sure she can hit the target. you know what they say a hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 44 mag. oh and make sure she can clear a jam even in the dark thats why i have a 38 spc for my wife. revolvers are idiot proof.

[Despoiler]

Originally Posted by jamesfaync

my personal advise. dont worry too much about the caliber just make sure she can hit the target. you know what they say a hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 44 mag. oh and make sure she can clear a jam even in the dark thats why i have a 38 spc for my wife. revolvers are idiot proof.

are you calling your wife an idiot? :insane:

[Despoiler]

7mmag,

I have to agree with jamesfaync, if she can shoot it and is an accurate shot. In other words if she is conformable with it, then it should be just fine. The .380 is a little smaller than I prefer to have around, my wife wanted to keep my Walter ppk in .32 auto for her self-defense gun. So I took her shooting with it, she found that the smaller pistol had more kick than my Ruger 94, in 9mm. Which is the pistol that we now keep for home defense.

[GUNRUNNER]

.380 Hollow points are quite enough for an elderly woman...she could put a goblin down with it....it IS better than a .22..................

Bersa Thunder .380 ACP

By Phil W. Johnston

The Thunder .380 controls are all in the "right" places. All are handy and easy to acquire.

This job is full of surprises. One of them popped up this week when we wrapped our hands around a new little .380 semi auto for a couple days of shooting. It's called the Thunder .380 and it's produced in Argentina by Bersa S.A. This little rig generates a lot of bang for the buck.

The Thunder .380 is a small arm, measuring but 6.6 inches overall. It weighs 20 ounces and is just over an inch and a quarter wide. It's available in two finishes--the attractive matte black of the sample as well as a satin nickel.

The little Bersa sports a dual-action trigger that allows the first shot from a magazine to be delivered double-action with the subsequent shots going single-action. The pistol features an exposed hammer that allows the hammer to be manually cocked, moving the arm into single action, instantly. Out of the box the trigger isn't bad. The single-action pull is around six pounds or so with little takeup and just a bit of creep. It's good enough to allow some respectable shooting. The double action pull, likewise isn't bad-probably about double the single action pull--but smooth and linear just the same. Operationally, the little Bersa has everything in the "right" places. The safety is located on the left side of the slide and it acts as a de-cocking lever when it's fully depressed. The safety engages the firing pin when activated, as well. The pistol also features a magazine disconnector or safety as well, unfortunately. While we understand the motivation for these things, we prefer a firearm that acts like a firearm, should the magazine be unavailable for some reason. Weighing but 20 ounces it doesn't make much of a club.

The arm is shipped with one seven-round magazine. Additional magazines are available for a nickel less than $20 and Bersa also offers a Thunder 380 Plus, 10 round magazine for $47.95. The magazine release is located on the left side of the receiver, behind the pivot point of the trigger. Depressing the release nicely ejects the empty magazine.

The slide release is immediately above the magazine--again on the left side of the receiver--and it is activated when the last round from the magazine is fired.
Field stripping the pistol takes seconds--if you're slow.

Typical of arms based on this simple design, the Bersa is a snap to field strip. After verifying that the arm is empty and dropping the magazine, one simply rotates the takedown lever (right side of the receiver) downward and then pulls the slide back and upward. The recoil spring is coiled around the barrel and remains there during the disassembly process. It takes about two seconds to field strip the Bersa and about the same amount of time to put it back together.

The Thunder .380 sports good sights with one white dot up front and a pair of white dots at the back. The rear sight is adjustable for windage but elevation is fixed. Out of the box, the rig was in the black at 10 yards.

Because the Bersa and similar arms aren't designed as long range target rigs and most confrontations occur at the proverbial 7-10 yards, we elected to run this arm indoors at 10 yards for the entire session. The fact that it was near zero outside also had a slight impact on our decision! At any rate, our ammo locker was getting low where the .380 is concerned, but we managed to come up with five loads that tend to mirror most of the ammo that is out there. We rested the arm on sandbags and again used our competitive shooting glasses to clear up the front sight.
SPECIFICATIONS


Maker: www.bersa-llama.com
Action Type: Semi-automatic pistol, blowback operation
Caliber: .380 ACP
Capacity: 7+1, 10+1 (with optional Plus magazine)
Overall Length: 65⁄8 inches
Barrel Length: 31⁄2 inches
Weight: 20 ounces empty, 23 ounces loaded
Sights: Fixed elevation, adjustable for windage
Stocks: Black composite
Finish: Matte black or satin nickel
Price: $248.95 matte black, $264.95 nickel


Throughout the limited range session, the Bersa didn't miss a beat. When things quieted down, the little .380 averaged just over an inch and a quarter with all five loads, generating around 150 ft/lbs of instrumental energy, 15 feet from the muzzle. The exception to this rule consists of Cor-Bon's great 90-grain +P load that leaves even this stubby barrel doing five fps shy of 1,000 fps, producing very nearly 200 ft/lbs of energy in the process. This load would be a natural choice for serious social work. Because our ammo was limited, we managed only to run 125 rounds or so through the Bersa--not a torture test to be sure. Still, the Thunder .380 gave no indication that it would perform differently after a thousand rounds, either.

Selling for less than $250--or about half the price of some of the competition--the Bersa Thunder .380 looks like a bargain any way you cut it. Clone or not, this one's a winner.

The .380 Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge was introduced in 1908 by Colt for their Pocket Automatic. It is the most successful of several attempts to design a cartridge that will maximize the stopping power of a simple blowback operated semi-automatic pistol. In Europe it is often called the 9mm Short or the 9x17. (9mm being the bullet diameter and 17mm the case length.)

As loaded by the major ammunition companies, the .380 ACP delivers an 85-95 grain FMJ bullet at 955-960 fps with 190 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. These are figures developed in a 4" barrel, and represent the performance of the cartridge from a compact service pistol like an IJ-70 or PP. Far better for personal protection are the JHP bullets that generally weigh 85-95 gains (the Remington Golden Saber JHP weighs 102 grains). These are loaded to MV of 940-1000 fps, and while their kinetic energy is about the same as the FMJ bullets, their expansion puts them in an entirely different class in terms of stopping power.

The .380 is about the smallest auto pistol cartridge that is widely reloaded. It uses the same .355" diameter bullets as most other 9mm (.35 caliber) pistols. Some other specifications of interest to reloaders include: maximum COL 0.984", maximum case length 0.680", MAP 21,500 psi. Since almost all .380 pistols are of the "blowback" design, this pressure limit must not be exceeded.

[GUNRUNNER]

"Dick's Sporting Goods" had new Bersa Thunders on sale for $200 a couple weeks ago, and a semi-local pawnie has a new one for $225 right now...both the black versions.

I've been tempted to buy one for an inexpensive lock in the glovebox..if someone steals it I'm not out a whole lot of money gun :target:

[Thrawn]

Not a bad looking piece.

If you want a single action .380, they got one based on the 1911 design.

I've been trying to get the all nickel plated one

[GUNRUNNER]

I like the black.............

When shopping for a pistol for personal defense and/or informal target shooting, one has many choices. That was the dilemma I faced when I went looking for a pistol for self-defense purposes. I also, from time to time, anticipated doing a little informal target shooting and plinking.

Everyone has their own preferences regarding the type of pistol and caliber to use. After considerable research I found that the .380 ACP cartridge is an excellent choice for a pistol intended for conceal carry. With the right ammo, the .380 ACP can have a 75% one stop shot rate, right up there with a .38 or .44 Special snubby. The .380 ACP cartridge is designed to work in blowback operated semi-automatic pistols, which are relatively easy to design and manufacture. Because of this there is a large selection of .380 ACP compact pistols, at affordable prices, suitable for concealed carry. A well-designed .380 pistol offers acceptable accuracy, mild recoil, good controllability for fast repeat shots, and greater cartridge capacity than a revolver.

Having decided on the .380 ACP cartridge, it was time to find the right pistol chambered in that caliber. I looked at several different makes including Beretta, AMT, Llama, Firestorm, and Walther.

I tentatively decided to go with the Walther PPK/S, practically the standard of comparison in compact .380 pistols. Besides, what is cooler than having the same gun that James Bond used for covert ops?

My local sporting goods store, however, did not stock Walther pistols. They offered to special order one for me, but quoted a price that was more than I was willing to pay.

At that moment a pistol in the gun case caught my eye. At first it looked like a Walther, but when I asked to see it the salesman told me that it was a Bersa. Bersa? I had never heard of Bersa. Are they for real or do they make junk? The clerk told me that Bersa has been in the business for about 40 years, and while most of their models are imitations of better-known pistols, they produce well made guns.

The Bersa Thunder .380 is similar to the Walther PPK/S, including a seven round magazine with a plastic floor plate extension. There is also a Deluxe 9-shot model. The same basic pistol is also offered in .32 ACP and .22 LR. There are 3 available finishes: matte blue, satin nickel, and Duo-Tone. The pistol has a 3.5" barrel an overall length of 6.6" and a weight of 23 ounces. Magazine capacity is 7 rounds (plus one in the chamber). The sights consist of a front blade integral with the slide and a notched-bar dovetailed rear.

This is a conventional single action/double action pistol with an exposed hammer. The Bersa has multiple safeties. There is a manual safety, which disengages the trigger. The manual safety also acts as a decocking lever and firing pin block to lower the hammer when it is cocked. And there is a magazine safety that prevents the pistol from firing when the magazine is removed.

Full list price (according to the 2001 Shooter's Bible) is $264.95 in matte blue, $281.95 in nickel, and $274.95 for the Deluxe model. Some retailers further discount these prices. I decided to sleep on it, and do a little more research.

I was able to confirm what the store clerk had told me. I was also able to find some comments on Internet message boards regarding the Thunder .380, most very complimentary to the Bersa pistol.

I returned to the store to examine the Bersa .380 again. After handling the pistol and dry firing it a few times, I was satisfied with the fit and feel of the pistol. I decided to make the purchase.

The Duo-Tone model, which is the version I chose, has an aluminum alloy frame. The grip panels are made of black polymer. The heaviest components are the slide and barrel, which are made of steel. With the slide off, the pistol is amazingly light in weight.

The Bersa can be field stripped with great ease for cleaning. First remove the magazine and verify that the chamber is empty. Remove the slide by pressing down the slide release and pulling back the slide. That is all the disassembly necessary for routine cleaning. For further ease of maintenance, the grip panels can be removed with a screwdriver.

After returning home with my new Bersa, I proceeded to test fire 2 boxes of ammo. To my consternation, I found that the gun jammed when it had about 2 rounds left in the magazine. I figured that it was probably just the recoil spring, and in any case it needed to be worked-in before any definite conclusion could be reached.

Another fairly minor problem had to do with the plastic magazine floor plate. One of these broke, scattering the magazine spring and cartridges everywhere. I have found an aftermarket replacement magazine made by Pro Mag, which is of better quality than the factory magazine. The Pro Mag magazine is all steel, so no fear of breaking off a plastic bottom.

The Bersa comes with a limited lifetime service contract, which covers any factory defect for as long as you own the pistol. I only had to pay for shipping and handling to get my magazine repaired.

To fulfill the requirements for a concealed firearm license, I had previously decided to take the handgun training course offered by the local Sheriff's Department. So, after thoroughly cleaning my new Bersa, I decided to put it to the ultimate test.

I took my new Bersa .380 to the class and shot it on the Sheriff's indoor firing range. I fired 4 boxes of ammunition (200 rounds). The first couple of magazine loads it jammed on that last shot or two. Then the malfunction disappeared. It did not jam once after that. It functioned perfectly, even when I intentionally tested it by shooing as fast as I could pull the trigger.

As for accuracy, I have found this pistol to be fairly accurate. At 15 yards I can shoot about a 6" group, and out to about 40 or 50 yards my accuracy is about 50%, with the bullets striking about 2 inches high. I don't think that I will have to use this pistol in a self-defense situation at that range, but it doesn't hurt to practice. Besides, it's fun! Reasonably speaking, at any distance over 40 yards I would be better off using my Ruger Mini-14.

In conclusion, I have found the Bersa Thunder .380 to be an excellent alternative for anyone who cannot afford, or cannot locate, a better known concealed carry pistol (such as a Walther or SIG). The only real negatives I have found are the jamming problem discussed above, and the plastic magazine floor plate. A minor complaint is that the trigger free play is a little excessive. I have been told that some adroit action honing can correct this. Despite those three imperfections, the pistol is generally of good quality, especially for a pistol that sells in this price range.

So there you have it, the Bersa is a creditable quality pistol for the money. Sure, I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for, but every once in a while . . . .

[GUNRUNNER]

Ah...the copy and paste master is back...

.380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)
(9mm Browning Short)
(9mm Kurz)
(9mm Corto)

Introduced by the Belgium firm FN in 1912, the 9mm Browning short is one of several pistol cartridge designed by John Browning. In some European countries, this cartridge has also been designated as the 9mm Kurz and 9mm Corto, but in the United Sates it goes by the name of .380 Automatic or .380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)

Although the more powerful 9mm Parabellum has enjoyed greater popularity over the years, thousands upon thousands of autoloading pistols have been manufactured in .380 ACP. Many American and foreign arms makers have offered or continue to offer compact pistols in this caliber including Colt, Savage, Remington, Llama, Star, FIE, Browning, Walther, and Beretta. Various European police departments have adopted the .380 and it has even gained status as a military cartridge in countries such as Sweeden, Italy, and Czechoslovakia.

In the United States, the .380 ACP is classified as a cartridge best suited for self defense. This is as it should be simply because the pistols available in this caliber aren't designed for sporting use. The .380 cartridge is powerful enough for taking varmint sized game cleanly at close to medium ranges, but the relatively poor accuracy of most pistols in this caliber limits its effective range to about 15 short paces.

Due to the extremely limited capacity of the .380 case, a relatively fast burning powder such as HP38 is the best choice for handloaders. Bullets weighing from 88grains to 100 grains at 900 to 1000 fps duplicate the performance of most factory loads.

Source: Hodgdon Data Manual, 26th Edition

[troylaplante]

http://troylaplante.tripod.com/troyb...ntry_id=331021

[Apollyon67]

I have had nothing but respect for the little Bersa I got for my gf, nice trade, eh? J/K She loves it and has shot at least 1000 rounds through it with no jams. We have used everything from cheap USA brand to the hydrashock. Just remember, as Lady Di says, Double Tap ain't about dancing.

I got a line on a used stainless Walther PPK they're just so unreliable

[rebel727]

I've got a 34 Beretta I'm very pleased with.