.357 sig vs. 40s&w vs 9mm

stikbutter · 11-10-2007, 11:57 PM

Does anybody have any experience with this 357 sig. 40 and 9mm. I keep reading how 357 sig has one shot stop, but ammo is expensive. Better than 9mm and less recoil than 40 with similar ballistics.

HEMI · 11-11-2007, 02:28 AM

The 357 sig is a good caliber but its new and whether or not it takes off remains to be seen.It offers nothing new like the 45gap and may become obselete quickly.
Whats the best cal,This topic comes up in training all of the time,i'll give you my standard answer, there is not a lot of differance in stopping power between a 38 and 45.when good proven bullets are used. Its not the tool its the technition that makes the differance in a gunfight. My first issued gun was a 38,I am now carrying a 40 smith. I had the same confidance with the 38 as I do with the 40 training is the key.
There isn't a pistol round out there that i'll stake my life to with a single round,
if I have to shoot i'll expect to have to hit my attacker with multiple com hits to stop him.

toolman · 11-11-2007, 02:41 AM

The main advantage to the .357 Sig is that it basically has the same stopping power as a .357 mag in a much smaller package. The .357 mag is widely recognized as being one of the most effective "one shot" self-defense cartridges in existence. The Sig round is a very high-pressure round though, and is known for being hard on the gun itself. I suspect a lot of this could be alleviated through alternative spring selection, but I'm not sure.

samuel · 11-11-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI

The 357 sig is a good caliber but its new and whether or not it takes off remains to be seen.It offers nothing new like the 45gap and may become obselete quickly.
Whats the best cal,This topic comes up in training all of the time,i'll give you my standard answer, there is not a lot of differance in stopping power between a 38 and 45.when good proven bullets are used. Its not the tool its the technition that makes the differance in a gunfight. My first issued gun was a 38,I am now carrying a 40 smith. I had the same confidance with the 38 as I do with the 40 training is the key.
There isn't a pistol round out there that i'll stake my life to with a single round,
if I have to shoot i'll expect to have to hit my attacker with multiple com hits to stop him.

I completely disagree in your statement,(there is not a lot of difference in stopping power between a .38 and .45.)When a bullet starts out 1/4 larger and 1.5 times the weight there is a big difference.As to your .40,we ran tests on the .40 and using 165 Gold Dot bullets there was plenty of energy release to stop anyone in normal conditions but the double tap is always advised and serves the purpose well.It takes practice.The .40 is what most LEO,s are carrying and I would have a lot of confidence in it's ability to stop a fight.Thanks for your service to the public and try to have a little more confidence in that .40.I had a friend that stopped an 8point buck in less than 50yds with one shot using GD 165gr bullets and a double lung shot.I never used one for hunting but would have complete confidence in it. sam.

gunney_m · 11-11-2007, 04:04 PM

Starsky · 11-11-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI

The 357 sig is a good caliber but its new and whether or not it takes off remains to be seen.

I'd hardly say that. It has been around for 13 years now, since 1994....

HEMI · 11-12-2007, 07:26 AM

Sam read between the lines, I am saying mindset is more important than the tool.
And yes I do have confidence in it[40]155gr gold dots but I don't get wrapped up in the stopping power debate, if we switched back to the 38 or went with a 9mm tomorrow I would pick a proven load and practice and never miss a beat.My attitude,mindset and training will keep me safer than any weapon .
And I don't wish to offend,but a deer and a jacked up crackhead are 2 very differant animals.And i've yet heard of a normal OIS.
Whatever is used , use good bullets like gold dots,dpx, hydra shoks etc.. and practice.
Starsky you are correct the 357sig has been around awhile I was more referring to the police departments adopting it,there has been a couple and they report favorably.There just hasn't been the rush to adopt it.

Bravo · 11-12-2007, 11:13 AM

I was having this same dilemma a few weeks ago. I was torn between buying a .45 or .40 handgun, and had told myself to never buy a 9mm, because they're too weak (if you look somewhere on this board, I pretty much stated exactly that).

Now I've made a hypocrite of myself and purchased a 9mm, for 2 reasons.

#1. It's going to be for target/competition, and I need to practice. The 9mm is cheap to shoot.

#2. It's going to be for target/competition, and I need to practice. The 9mm has relatively low recoil.

What really convinced me was seeing how high quality 9mm ammo expands compared to the .40 and .45. It was nearly the same. Of course the .45 will make bigger holes, but with my problem of slightly anticipating recoil (something that I will overcome with handgun practice), what good is a big hole when you can't hit the target to make one?

Anyway, here's the point. Buy what you want. If you're not happy, then you won't be confident. The truth is, a guy on crack chasing you down is going to fall when struck properly. The caliber won't matter. If you can't hit your mark, then the bigger hole might make the difference.

Starsky · 11-12-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo

What really convinced me was seeing how high quality 9mm ammo expands compared to the .40 and .45. It was nearly the same.

HUH? I believe you have been looking at some flawed testing then. Using the exact same round in all three calibers, even a great round like Federal HST or Rem Golden Sabre, a 9mm, will not expand "the same" or hit as hard as a .40 or a .45, period.

Bravo · 11-12-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

It was nearly the same. Of course the .45 will make bigger holes

Nearly the same. Obviously the 9 won't expand to what the .45 does. But we're talking expansion within a couple tenths of an inch, and with the 9mm moving quite a bit faster, and with easier shot placement, it can still be deadly.

I wouldn't want to be hit with a 9mm slug...

ArkansasHunter · 11-12-2007, 10:30 PM

I'm becomeing interested in the 9mm where as i was die hard 40 S&W for my next pistol.
All of you have excellent post and good oppinions and if you get profisiant with any one of the 3 calibers you'll accomplish the same goal...couldn't you ???

Starsky · 11-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo

Nearly the same. Obviously the 9 won't expand to what the .45 does. But we're talking expansion within a couple tenths of an inch, and with the 9mm moving quite a bit faster, and with easier shot placement, it can still be deadly.

I wouldn't want to be hit with a 9mm slug...

A .22 can kill you and I wouldn't want to be hit by any size round.

I spent years in law enforcement training and I can assure you that while the 9mm is a decent round and of course will kill (as they all will) that there is no way that it hits even close to as hard as the .40 & .45. Those two rounds will wreak more damage to the human body than any 9mm ever will.

I own two (2) 9mm pistols while I own...

five (5) .40's and four (4) .45's and I own them because I have seen first hand the difference.

gunney_m · 11-12-2007, 10:38 PM

What about 9mm largo?

Bravo · 11-12-2007, 11:34 PM

I guess the point that I was trying to make was, if you can't hit your target efficiently, then it doesn't matter how big the slug going down range is. This is what my problem was, I anticipate recoil, which can be overcome with practice, but practice is expensive. Will I get a .45 eventually, yes. Does the .45 hit harder and make bigger holes, definitely. Am I happy with a 9mm for now, absolutely. It's truly my only option, and with Wal-Mart selling winchester white box ammo at $0.14/shot, I might be shooting the 9mm for awhile.

toolman · 11-13-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunney_m

What about 9mm largo?

The 9mm Largo is a fine round and is on a par with the .38 Super if loaded correctly. The problem is that nobody in the U.S. loads for it commercially anymore. CCI had a Blazer loading for a few years but discontinued it due to low sales. Hornady is loading a 9mm Steyr round which is virtually identical, but it is a fmj round and is pretty pricey. If you have a gun in 9mm Largo that will handle it, it is much more cost-effective to modify the gun to accept .38 super ammo, if possible. This entailed about 10 mins. with a file and Dremel on my Star Super. On this gun, it entailed relieving the underside of the upper barrel extension and deepening the notch and narrowing the hook on the extractor. I shot thousands of rounds of full-house +P .38 Super loads through this gun with absolutely zero malfunctions.

gunney_m · 11-13-2007, 01:34 AM

Thanks Toolman.

toolman · 11-13-2007, 01:50 AM

Anytime! .38 Super\9mm Largo\9mm Steyr\9mm Bergmann\Bayard is a cool round. I panicked after I traded for my Star Modelo Super until I figured out all of the different rounds I could stuff in it. I'm actually thinking of buying this gun back (I traded it for a PA-63) because it is so pleasant to shoot, my wife loved it and she's not a shooter! Here's a link if you're interested:
Sarco, Inc. Virtual Showroom

gunney_m · 11-13-2007, 01:57 AM

He!! yeh, a 1911 style frame, 38super or 9mmlargo still big enough for home defence at that price, id have to, thanks man.

Bravo · 11-13-2007, 12:44 PM

If you're looking for a 9mm sized round that is capable of firing heavier bullets at a higher velocity, the .357 Sig would probably be the way to go.

stikbutter · 11-14-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo

If you're looking for a 9mm sized round that is capable of firing heavier bullets at a higher velocity, the .357 Sig would probably be the way to go.

I would imagine that reloading 357 sig. would be the way to go. You could play with the loads and tweek them to the gun and get what you want out of them. I just have never been turned on by 9mm. I have a friend that is a Dade county metro cop, that was in a incident where the guy was wigging on crack and LSD took 3 to the chest center mass before he went down. I also have some friends in the military that arent very pleased with it either. 40 is a very good canidate for a carry weapon I was curios about 357 sig. I have always stayed away from 45 because of recoil and I dont have big hands and was never able to get a comfortable grip on the gun especially if was double stacked clip. And if you cant grip it you can hit the broad side of a barn. To my understanding 357 sigs recoil is equivalent to that of the 40. But I dont know personally.

11-11-2007, 02:41 AM	#3
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,871 Blog Entries: 24	The main advantage to the .357 Sig is that it basically has the same stopping power as a .357 mag in a much smaller package. The .357 mag is widely recognized as being one of the most effective "one shot" self-defense cartridges in existence. The Sig round is a very high-pressure round though, and is known for being hard on the gun itself. I suspect a lot of this could be alleviated through alternative spring selection, but I'm not sure. __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac!

11-13-2007, 01:50 AM	#17
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,871 Blog Entries: 24	Anytime! .38 Super\9mm Largo\9mm Steyr\9mm Bergmann\Bayard is a cool round. I panicked after I traded for my Star Modelo Super until I figured out all of the different rounds I could stuff in it. I'm actually thinking of buying this gun back (I traded it for a PA-63) because it is so pleasant to shoot, my wife loved it and she's not a shooter! Here's a link if you're interested: Sarco, Inc. Virtual Showroom __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac! Last edited by toolman; 11-13-2007 at 01:55 AM.

11-10-2007, 11:57 PM	#1
stikbutter Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Keystone Hieghts FL Posts: 365	.357 sig vs. 40s&w vs 9mm Does anybody have any experience with this 357 sig. 40 and 9mm. I keep reading how 357 sig has one shot stop, but ammo is expensive. Better than 9mm and less recoil than 40 with similar ballistics.

11-11-2007, 02:28 AM	#2
HEMI Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 828	The 357 sig is a good caliber but its new and whether or not it takes off remains to be seen.It offers nothing new like the 45gap and may become obselete quickly. Whats the best cal,This topic comes up in training all of the time,i'll give you my standard answer, there is not a lot of differance in stopping power between a 38 and 45.when good proven bullets are used. Its not the tool its the technition that makes the differance in a gunfight. My first issued gun was a 38,I am now carrying a 40 smith. I had the same confidance with the 38 as I do with the 40 training is the key. There isn't a pistol round out there that i'll stake my life to with a single round, if I have to shoot i'll expect to have to hit my attacker with multiple com hits to stop him.

11-11-2007, 04:04 PM	#5
gunney_m Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Muskogee,Ok Posts: 1,931	40

11-12-2007, 07:26 AM	#7
HEMI Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 828	Sam read between the lines, I am saying mindset is more important than the tool. And yes I do have confidence in it[40]155gr gold dots but I don't get wrapped up in the stopping power debate, if we switched back to the 38 or went with a 9mm tomorrow I would pick a proven load and practice and never miss a beat.My attitude,mindset and training will keep me safer than any weapon . And I don't wish to offend,but a deer and a jacked up crackhead are 2 very differant animals.And i've yet heard of a normal OIS. Whatever is used , use good bullets like gold dots,dpx, hydra shoks etc.. and practice. Starsky you are correct the 357sig has been around awhile I was more referring to the police departments adopting it,there has been a couple and they report favorably.There just hasn't been the rush to adopt it.

11-12-2007, 11:13 AM	#8
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 2,030	I was having this same dilemma a few weeks ago. I was torn between buying a .45 or .40 handgun, and had told myself to never buy a 9mm, because they're too weak (if you look somewhere on this board, I pretty much stated exactly that). Now I've made a hypocrite of myself and purchased a 9mm, for 2 reasons. #1. It's going to be for target/competition, and I need to practice. The 9mm is cheap to shoot. #2. It's going to be for target/competition, and I need to practice. The 9mm has relatively low recoil. What really convinced me was seeing how high quality 9mm ammo expands compared to the .40 and .45. It was nearly the same. Of course the .45 will make bigger holes, but with my problem of slightly anticipating recoil (something that I will overcome with handgun practice), what good is a big hole when you can't hit the target to make one? Anyway, here's the point. Buy what you want. If you're not happy, then you won't be confident. The truth is, a guy on crack chasing you down is going to fall when struck properly. The caliber won't matter. If you can't hit your mark, then the bigger hole might make the difference.

11-12-2007, 10:30 PM	#11
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 11,000	I'm becomeing interested in the 9mm where as i was die hard 40 S&W for my next pistol. All of you have excellent post and good oppinions and if you get profisiant with any one of the 3 calibers you'll accomplish the same goal...couldn't you ???

11-12-2007, 10:38 PM	#13
gunney_m Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Muskogee,Ok Posts: 1,931	What about 9mm largo?

11-12-2007, 11:34 PM	#14
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 2,030	I guess the point that I was trying to make was, if you can't hit your target efficiently, then it doesn't matter how big the slug going down range is. This is what my problem was, I anticipate recoil, which can be overcome with practice, but practice is expensive. Will I get a .45 eventually, yes. Does the .45 hit harder and make bigger holes, definitely. Am I happy with a 9mm for now, absolutely. It's truly my only option, and with Wal-Mart selling winchester white box ammo at $0.14/shot, I might be shooting the 9mm for awhile.

11-13-2007, 01:34 AM	#16
gunney_m Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Muskogee,Ok Posts: 1,931	Thanks Toolman.

11-13-2007, 01:57 AM	#18
gunney_m Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Muskogee,Ok Posts: 1,931	He!! yeh, a 1911 style frame, 38super or 9mmlargo still big enough for home defence at that price, id have to, thanks man.

11-13-2007, 12:44 PM	#19
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 2,030	If you're looking for a 9mm sized round that is capable of firing heavier bullets at a higher velocity, the .357 Sig would probably be the way to go.