Odd Firing Pin Hit

phoenix79 · 11-12-2007, 04:02 PM

I was cleaning some brass today that was shot through my CZ75B and noticed an odd firing pin strike:

Anybody ever seen anything like this before? I didn't notice this last time but I have changed extractor springs since then. Could this be related? Is it something to worry about?

Bravo · 11-12-2007, 05:16 PM

If you don't notice any others like that, then I wouldn't worry too much.

I'm no expert, but maybe it's a primer issue? Could the primer move backward a bit upon the bullet being fired, and maybe cause a deeper, oddly shaped punch?

Just a thought.

rckymtnboy · 11-12-2007, 05:24 PM

Hard to tell for sure from the pic, but it looks like the primer is still seated properly. If you just changed springs, I would almost wonder if the spring you put in is slightly smaller in outside diameter and is allowing for some slop in the side to side movement of the pin? Looks like the pin initially hit on the outer edge and slide towards the center. Was this the only shell you noticed this on? Probably not a real big deal if you're not getting misfires.

phoenix79 · 11-12-2007, 05:29 PM

actually, I grabbed 4 out of the tumbler to check and they were all like that. The spring does not affect the FP in any way, it's on the extractor which has its own cutout separate from the FP.

Bravo · 11-12-2007, 05:34 PM

Were these handloaded? If so, then it could still be an issue with you seating primers. If you purchased a box of ammo from Federal and 4 were like this, then we can rule out the ammo and blame your gun (It could still be the ammo, but Federal producing this many faulty rounds in 1 box is unlikely).

About what rckymtnboy said though, if your new spring is offering play in the slide, then the firing pin might be off-center when it flies forward, causing it to initially strike on the edge of the primer, and then move into the center as the casing presses back, like seen here.

But again, I'm not expert

I'm sure someone around here is though.

BORIS · 11-12-2007, 05:49 PM

The problem is the loads may be too hot or your firingpin spring is too weak.

What is happening is the firingpin due to inertia is still in the "firing" position when the barrel starts its downward motion to unlock. If the slide velocity is too fast because of a hot load then the spring that holds the firingpin back will not do its job and cause the smear you are seeing. If the loads are within normal spec and it still does this then your firingpin spring is weak.

Easy test is to go shoot some factory ammo and see if it does this with them loads. If it does then it is a gun problem, if not then you need to lower your loads a little.

samuel · 11-12-2007, 07:24 PM

All primers push back in the primer pocket due to the explosion in the primer pocket which pushes the cartridge ahead and the primer back.Rwo things you didnt make clear,was it all of the casings or only four?Did you check the firearm before posting?There has to be an abnormality in the firearm as there is no source for a double strike of the firing pin and no way I can feature the firing pin could have put a groove in the primer through extraction. sam.

Pumpkinheaver · 11-12-2007, 07:54 PM

Premature unlock. The slide is unlocking before the pin recedes back into it's channel. Pretty common on autos, may eventully lead to a broken firing pin. Try a stiffer recoil spring.

jerry · 11-12-2007, 08:11 PM

I think pumpkin heaver is right on. I could not get the words out properly, but yeah, what he said.

also:
an excerpt from another article talking about the issue.

The "premature unlock" and "primer wipe" problems that have plagued many new-cartridge adaptations of existing tilt-lock pistol platforms (like early .40 S&W pistols built on 9mm platform designs) would never have occurred in a well-executed rotating-barrel system.

samuel · 11-12-2007, 08:19 PM

It may be common but in about a zillion rounds I have never noticed it.It probably happened and I disnt see it as that is the only scenario I can feature.Thanks PH. sam.

phoenix79 · 11-12-2007, 09:42 PM

These are factory rounds and I will check the pistol. I have cleaned it since this shooting session and ddin't notice anything abnormal, but I also wasn't looking for anything specific... Also, It appears to be the extreme majority of them. You can kinda tell when it started though. Some appear ok but then some show very little abnormality, and it gets progressively worse. Kinda cool that you can see the progression. Unfortunately, I shoot at an outdoor public range and can NEVER find all of my brass, but statistically, it shouldn't matter.

Pumpkinheaver · 11-13-2007, 06:14 PM

If I would have to bet I would say it is more prevalent in the 40S&W than any other cartridge. Every 40 I have ever owned had it.

blackhawk45 · 11-16-2007, 10:02 AM

Looks like that round was fired from a Glock,I carry a Glock 23 in 40S&W and all of my emptys look exactly like the one pictured!

11-12-2007, 04:02 PM	#1
phoenix79 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 221	Odd Firing Pin Hit I was cleaning some brass today that was shot through my CZ75B and noticed an odd firing pin strike: Anybody ever seen anything like this before? I didn't notice this last time but I have changed extractor springs since then. Could this be related? Is it something to worry about?

11-12-2007, 05:24 PM	#3
rckymtnboy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: I am a dual resident. Posts: 340 Images: 20	Hard to tell for sure from the pic, but it looks like the primer is still seated properly. If you just changed springs, I would almost wonder if the spring you put in is slightly smaller in outside diameter and is allowing for some slop in the side to side movement of the pin? Looks like the pin initially hit on the outer edge and slide towards the center. Was this the only shell you noticed this on? Probably not a real big deal if you're not getting misfires. __________________ When they come for my guns, I'll give 'em the bullets first!

11-12-2007, 07:54 PM	#8
Pumpkinheaver Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,340	Premature unlock. The slide is unlocking before the pin recedes back into it's channel. Pretty common on autos, may eventully lead to a broken firing pin. Try a stiffer recoil spring. __________________ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

11-12-2007, 09:42 PM	#11
phoenix79 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 221	These are factory rounds and I will check the pistol. I have cleaned it since this shooting session and ddin't notice anything abnormal, but I also wasn't looking for anything specific... Also, It appears to be the extreme majority of them. You can kinda tell when it started though. Some appear ok but then some show very little abnormality, and it gets progressively worse. Kinda cool that you can see the progression. Unfortunately, I shoot at an outdoor public range and can NEVER find all of my brass, but statistically, it shouldn't matter. Last edited by phoenix79; 11-12-2007 at 09:53 PM.

11-13-2007, 06:14 PM	#12
Pumpkinheaver Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,340	If I would have to bet I would say it is more prevalent in the 40S&W than any other cartridge. Every 40 I have ever owned had it. __________________ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

11-12-2007, 05:16 PM	#2
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 1,897	If you don't notice any others like that, then I wouldn't worry too much. I'm no expert, but maybe it's a primer issue? Could the primer move backward a bit upon the bullet being fired, and maybe cause a deeper, oddly shaped punch? Just a thought.

11-12-2007, 05:29 PM	#4
phoenix79 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 221	actually, I grabbed 4 out of the tumbler to check and they were all like that. The spring does not affect the FP in any way, it's on the extractor which has its own cutout separate from the FP.

11-12-2007, 05:34 PM	#5
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 1,897	Were these handloaded? If so, then it could still be an issue with you seating primers. If you purchased a box of ammo from Federal and 4 were like this, then we can rule out the ammo and blame your gun (It could still be the ammo, but Federal producing this many faulty rounds in 1 box is unlikely). About what rckymtnboy said though, if your new spring is offering play in the slide, then the firing pin might be off-center when it flies forward, causing it to initially strike on the edge of the primer, and then move into the center as the casing presses back, like seen here. But again, I'm not expert I'm sure someone around here is though.

11-12-2007, 05:49 PM	#6
BORIS Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 35	The problem is the loads may be too hot or your firingpin spring is too weak. What is happening is the firingpin due to inertia is still in the "firing" position when the barrel starts its downward motion to unlock. If the slide velocity is too fast because of a hot load then the spring that holds the firingpin back will not do its job and cause the smear you are seeing. If the loads are within normal spec and it still does this then your firingpin spring is weak. Easy test is to go shoot some factory ammo and see if it does this with them loads. If it does then it is a gun problem, if not then you need to lower your loads a little.

11-12-2007, 07:24 PM	#7
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	All primers push back in the primer pocket due to the explosion in the primer pocket which pushes the cartridge ahead and the primer back.Rwo things you didnt make clear,was it all of the casings or only four?Did you check the firearm before posting?There has to be an abnormality in the firearm as there is no source for a double strike of the firing pin and no way I can feature the firing pin could have put a groove in the primer through extraction. sam.

11-12-2007, 08:11 PM	#9
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,882 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	I think pumpkin heaver is right on. I could not get the words out properly, but yeah, what he said. also: an excerpt from another article talking about the issue. The "premature unlock" and "primer wipe" problems that have plagued many new-cartridge adaptations of existing tilt-lock pistol platforms (like early .40 S&W pistols built on 9mm platform designs) would never have occurred in a well-executed rotating-barrel system.

11-12-2007, 08:19 PM	#10
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	It may be common but in about a zillion rounds I have never noticed it.It probably happened and I disnt see it as that is the only scenario I can feature.Thanks PH. sam.

11-16-2007, 10:02 AM	#13
blackhawk45 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Millersville Pa. Posts: 79	Looks like that round was fired from a Glock,I carry a Glock 23 in 40S&W and all of my emptys look exactly like the one pictured!