better gun for beginners

[madcratebuilder]

I would look into "self defense" classes in your area. Find one that can supply a choice of hand guns, you get a chance to try different guns, plus training. You really need training, even the most professionals train, train, train.

[WickedKlown]

madcratebuilder i will be looking into some of those later on down the line. also found out some good news today. not this weekind but the one after were having a local gunshow so saturday morning im going to be at the doors waiting to get in. im going to start looking at alot of different revolvers and semi autos so i can get a feel for what i like and what feels good.

[sbordogna2000]

I can only say that from experience I like the Bersa 380. Very light and very accurate. Kel Tec has a good one also. Don't go big at first and find out you have problems. If there is a range near by that you can try different weapons then do that. Get the feel of the gun and see what you like.

[evilblackrifle]

(gel shots by Doug Carr)

Take your pick. They all look like they'd do the job. If you do your job with shot placement.
Me personally, I'd get a 9mm for a first gun. Cheaper to shoot so you can practice more.

Notice the heavier bullets - the FBI considers 12 inches of penetration a minimum to effectively stop the threat. Don't use those light 115gr 9mm or other weak useless "frangible" rounds that don't offer enough penetration.

[neophyte]

evilblackrifle: Sir; words will not tell what you have just shown
Pictures; worth thousands of word; and cannot be scrambled
excellent posting
With any, you must hit your target, or ballistic be danged.

[WickedKlown]

as much as i want the 45 i think im going to settle for the 9mm im going next weekin to start looknig around and get a feel for different ones and thinks alot for tie pics evilblackrifle

[neophyte]

WickedKlown: again sir; shoot them first. Rental is cheaper than having a 'pig in a poke'
Ruger SR9
Stoeger Cougar 8000
XD9
Glock17
and a bunch more. The best way to buy. Leave your wallet at home. The 'gunshop' wants your money; you want a firearm, you need exposure.
Do follow up when you can.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by mym1a

Friends of mine who are retired police tell me that the 9mm realy doesn't have the stopping power and prefer 10mm , 40 cal and 45acp.many police agencies are now carrying these calibers.for what ever its worth and i'm sure many will disagree. I would go with the m1911 45acp with a 22Lr conversion kit or 357 revolver.

I have a question for you. How many of those retired cops actually shot someone? This reminds me of some hunting forums where folks discuss just how much caliber it takes to kill certain game animals. A 9mm in the chest is better than a .45 in the arm, guts, or leg. Most of the perps out there are expecting an un-armed victim. They are looking for easy pray, not a gunfight. I received my training from a Police Chief in Tennessee and while his weapon of choice was a Glock .40 cal., he said any weapon over a .32 was sufficient for what we, the public, would need. .22's through 9mm's have killed an awful lot of people by accident. Imagine if you were actually trying? Bob

[9mmfan]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

I have a question for you. How many of those retired cops actually shot someone? This reminds me of some hunting forums where folks discuss just how much caliber it takes to kill certain game animals. A 9mm in the chest is better than a .45 in the arm, guts, or leg. Most of the perps out there are expecting an un-armed victim. They are looking for easy pray, not a gunfight. I received my training from a Police Chief in Tennessee and while his weapon of choice was a Glock .40 cal., he said any weapon over a .32 was sufficient for what we, the public, would need. .22's through 9mm's have killed an awful lot of people by accident. Imagine if you were actually trying? Bob

I agree 100% with brother Bob. Remember.....if a 9mm is good enough for the U.S. Army (Beretta M9) and the Navy Seals (SIG 9mm) it is good enough for the public.

[big boomer]

Revolvers almost never jam and they do not stovepipe. they are more reliable than any auto. while there are many fine auto's out there they just don't have same "always work" record that revolvers do. and it seldom takes more than 2 shots so 6 is plenty. Have you considered a 44 special or 45 colt revolver?

[neophyte]

Brother Bob; 9mmfan; Gentlemen you are so right.
Additional to each of you.
Matters not which [EACH of YOU}

Seals, Commando's, Combat regiments, PRACTICE and PRACTICE and PRACTICE.
These fine folk realize without PRACTICE they would be just as well off with a ROCK.

I'll endorse a ROCK if you PRACTICE and PRACTICE responsibly.

David killed Goliath with a slingshot.

We now have available equipment far exceeding the slingshot. We need to know how and when to use our equipment as well as 'David'

big boomer; Sir; you are correct. Doesn't change the issue to PRACTICING; doesn't change the issue to PRACTICING responsibly:

WickedKlown: Sir; these folks are giving your good to great advice. I tend to get more fired up over this PRACTICE thing; than worrying about caliber.
9mm is an outstanding round if you can hit your target.
Not a one is worth a 'hoot' without HITTING you TARGET.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by neophyte

Brother Bob; 9mmfan; Gentlemen you are so right.
Additional to each of you.
Matters not which [EACH of YOU}

Seals, Commando's, Combat regiments, PRACTICE and PRACTICE and PRACTICE.
These fine folk realize without PRACTICE they would be just as well off with a ROCK.

I'll endorse a ROCK if you PRACTICE and PRACTICE responsibly.

David killed Goliath with a slingshot.

We now have available equipment far exceeding the slingshot. We need to know how and when to use our equipment as well as 'David'

big boomer; Sir; you are correct. Doesn't change the issue to PRACTICING; doesn't change the issue to PRACTICING responsibly:

WickedKlown: Sir; these folks are giving your good to great advice. I tend to get more fired up over this PRACTICE thing; than worrying about caliber.
9mm is an outstanding round if you can hit your target.
Not a one is worth a 'hoot' without HITTING you TARGET.

Thank you sir and I concure! Brother Bob

[WickedKlown]

well after the gun show this weekin that just passed i have ruled out the usp 45. and i think all 45s for that matter im pritty set on a 9mm. the usp 45s grips were just overall to small for my hands. i did however get my hands on a usp 9mm that felt good but it was a bit more then what i wanted to pay for. most of the 1911 style 45s i held i liked and i was trying to find that in a 9mm. i came across a used 9mm springfield that felt good and had some feft to it. tried a couple different brettas and dident like them. also tried a couple tourses and they were ok but i think its gonna be a toss up between a springfield and a s&w. also handled a desert eagle .44mag as just a hear big for my hand but over all felt good but i dont thank ade will work for a ccw

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by 9mmfan

I agree 100% with brother Bob. Remember.....if a 9mm is good enough for the U.S. Army (Beretta M9) and the Navy Seals (SIG 9mm) it is good enough for the public.

But that's just it, 9mmfan. The 9mm is NOT good enough for the US Army. The troops in Iraq have relearned the lesson their great-great grandfathers learned in the Phillipines: you need a pistol that will stop a man with one shot. That Beretta NATO forced on them is not it.

The Marines always knew better. They never did take the old .45 Government Model completely out of service. And I've heard tell that when the Special Forces types have to go somehwere that a pistol might actually have to be used, it's something in .45 ACP they carry.

The latest US Army pistol test had as one of its specifications that the pistol be chambered in .45 ACP. As far as I'm concerned, that says all I need to know about the relative merits of the two rounds, no matter what kind of bullet you put in the cartridge case.

[9mmfan]

If the Beretta isn't doing well I wonder why Beretta M9 just got a new contract?


Beretta has been awarded a multi-year contract by the U.S. Army to deliver M9 pistols to servicemen and women as part of the U.S. Government commitment to ensure the operational safety and readiness of U.S. Armed Services

NEWS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Editorial Contact:
Karen Lutto
Lutto PR (press office)

Matteo Recanatini, Marketing Manager
LE/DoD Division
Beretta USA Corporation

UNITED STATES ARMY LAUNCHES NEW YEAR WITH PURCHASE
OF 25,403 U.S. MADE BERETTA M9 PISTOLS

ACCOKEEK, MD (January 17, 2008) — Beretta has just announced that it has been awarded a multi-year contract by the U.S. Army to deliver M9 pistols to servicemen and women as part of the U.S. Government commitment to ensure the operational safety and readiness of U.S. Armed Services worldwide.


The contract is for 25,403 M9 pistols with deliveries starting in June 2008 and continuing until February 2010. The U.S. Army also reserves the right to purchase additional M9 pistols as needed to meet their needs. All of these M9 pistols will continue to be manufactured at the Beretta U.S.A. facility located in Accokeek, Maryland.


“Beretta is always honored to assist the U.S. Armed Forces in defending our country,” stated Jeff Reh, Vice-General Manager for Beretta U.S.A. Corp. "The Beretta M9 pistol remains the most reliable and well-tested handgun in the U.S. military inventory, with tests resulting in an average of only one malfunction every 20,500 rounds fired. U.S. Government witnessed testing at our factory has confirmed this remarkable reliability.” Mr. Reh added that, “Beretta U.S.A. Corp. has supplied the Beretta M9 pistol as the standard sidearm for the U.S. Armed Forces since 1985 and continues to make investments in manufacturing capability, R&D and product development to serve the needs of the U.S. Military and Homeland Defense community. “


"We are proud to be able to provide the U.S. Armed Forces with a reliable, robust sidearm that will perform when needed to defend the lives of our servicemen and women”, said Elio J. Oliva, Vice-President of Sales and Marketing for Law Enforcement and DoD at Beretta U.S.A. Corp. “We understand that the M9 is not a primary weapon system and that it is often used a weapon of last resort, in close quarters and under demanding conditions. When U.S. servicemen deploy their M9 in theater it needs to work. All 350 employees at Beretta U.S.A. understand the importance of this mission and remain committed to delivering the highest quality products to our Military”, said Mr. Oliva.


“Each of our M9 pistols is test fired with proof rounds and tested for accuracy at 50 meters”, said Gabriele de Plano, Vice-President of Product Development at Beretta U.S.A. Corp. “We have continued to invest significant resources to improve the quality and already impressive performance and reliability of the M9 through the years. We have also developed new accessories such as high-lubricity sand-resistant magazines to deliver improved performance in the unique environmental conditions of the Afghan and Iraqi theaters”, added Mr. de Plano. Each Beretta M9 pistol ships with 15-round standard magazines and is designed to accept 20-round magazines.


In 2005, Beretta U.S.A. Corp. received 13 contracts for M9 pistols and component parts from the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps. Many of the U.S. Army purchases were multi-year contracts lasting five years, from which over $31 million dollars in purchase orders have since been issued to Beretta U.S.A. Corp.


In addition to the M9, Beretta U.S.A. has developed the M9A1 pistol which incorporates various enhancements such as integrated Picatinny rail, enhanced grip checkering and magazine well modifications to allow for quicker tactical reloads. To date Beretta U.S.A. has supplied over 4,000 M9A1 pistols to the United States Marine Corps.

About Beretta Law Enforcement:

In addition to producing the celebrated M-9 pistol, the official sidearm of the five branches of the US Armed Forces, Beretta also outfits law enforcement and homeland security agencies across the United States.

Through its recently-launched Total Solution™ system, Beretta combines the strengths and core-competencies of every company within the Beretta Holding Group to provide optimal products and services to the Law Enforcement and Defense community. Beretta’s Total Solution™ provides a complete array of products to suit diverse regional conditions and meet agency objectives and needs. These include the polymer Storm family of products (Cx4 carbines and Px4 pistols), the Benelli line of shotguns, including the M4 Super 90, adopted by the United States Marine Corps, the SAKO and Tikka line of sniper rifles, the line of shotguns and pistols offered by Stoeger, and the hi-tech line of optics manufactured in the US by Burris. Beretta also operates several armorer and tactical training schools across the United States. For additional information, visit berettaLE.com.

[Bravo]

That's kind of upsetting...I was really hoping to see the M&P .45 with a thumb safety brought into the military...

[9mmfan]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the 45, the 45 has great knock down power, no doubt it has more knock down power than a 9mm. However I just found out about a new contract with the Marines also:

"The Marines are the only branch that are 'officially' using the M9A1. The Marines wanted the rail and didn't want an add-on or third party solution. The only pre-existing 92FS platform pistol with a rail were the Vertec and G-SD. Rather than stray from the familiar grip of the 92FS, so they went with the G-SD frame without the extended mag catch/release button.

Just think... 4000 M9A1's. That's a lot of pistols."