Help w/ purchase out of state

michigannewbie · 02-10-2008, 10:41 PM

I am a legal resident/citizen of Texas but I go to school in Michigan. I would like to purchase a handgun. Can I ONLINE order from TX and pick up in person from FFL dealer in Michigan? The laws make no sense.

GlockMeister · 02-10-2008, 10:55 PM

I don't believe so, because you registered in Texas, and that would be where you'd have to not only have it shipped to, but picked up. I say that because that is where you arelicensed to own, not Michigan. So even if you bought it online, and had it shipped to Michigan, when you went to pick it up, they'd ask for what ever is required in Michigan and they'd see your licensed in Texas and say you can't legally purchase in Michigan. That's what I think anyhow.

If I'm wrong, someone will let us both know. I do believe, you can buy it in Michigan, and have it shipped to an FFL in Texas, where you live, and pick it up there. But you'll have to see if that FFL in TX. would hold it until you can get it. Again, I may be wrong and if so, someone should know and inform us both.

G-Meister

michigannewbie · 02-10-2008, 11:01 PM

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear - I am in Michigan 8 months out of year now. But I am a Texas citizen.

I won't be back in TX til summer, and I do not own any guns right now. Is there ANY legal way for me to get a handgun here, or do I have to wait until summer and then just take it up here when I come back?

Cyrano · 02-10-2008, 11:02 PM

In ten words or less, Michigannewbie, you can, but there are rules to be obeyed. The whole thing is a pain in the neck.

Your address of record (that is, where you are registered to vote, where your driver's license is issued, that sort of thing), is in Texas. Assuming you have your Texas pistol permit, you can buy anything you can afford in a Texas gun shop and take it home with you after you pass the NICS check. Check out this link:

Texas Department of Public Safety - Courtesy, Service, Protection

If I am reading the law correctly, Texas does not recognize Michigan CCWs, but Michigan does recognize Texas CCWs. Here is the take the Michigan State police have on the issue:

Non-residents of Michigan wishing to carry a concealed pistol in Michigan:

If you are a non-resident of Michigan with a valid concealed pistol permit from your home state, Michigan will recognize your permit. However, you must carry in conformance with any and all restrictions appearing on the permit. You are subject to Michigan’s concealed pistol law including but not limited to restrictions on where a concealed pistol may be carried. Please review the information provided on this website for further information.

If you buy a pistol from a dealer in Texas and have him ship it to a FFL holder in Michigan after you have found one who will cooperate with you and who has sent a copy of his FFL to the Texas dealer, the Texan can ship the pistol to the Michigander at your expense. The Michigan dealer will then charge you a transfer fee and run you though NICS before you can take your pistol out the door. But you have to have a current, valid Texas pistol permit or the discussion is moot.

As far as I know, you can't buy a pistol over the counter from a Michigan dealer because you are from out of state. Private party sales are of course a different matter, or rather, a different can of worms. Frankly, you're better off dealing with a Texas gun dealer.

I hope this makes things a little clearer to you.

GlockMeister · 02-10-2008, 11:05 PM

You may now qualify as a legal resident in Michigan. If so, you might be able to get whatever is required to buy a handgun in Michigan. Do you get any mail delivered in your name to your address in Michigan? Maybe if you can show residency in Michigan? Don't quote me on it. I would ask a gun dealer in Michigan. Tell them you go to school in Michigan, but live in TX. Ask if you get mail to a residence in Michigan, if you can file for a Michigan permit or license or again, whatever Michigan residents need.

I'd also say, if you live on campus, you might not want to anyhow. You may get kicked out if they find out. Also, if you live with others, someone could steal it or find out and someone else might steal it?

G-Meister

michigannewbie · 02-10-2008, 11:06 PM

Thanks Cyrano. I don't own any guns now, have any permits, or anything, so I guess I'm screwed!

How is it Constitutional, by the way, to make it basically impossible for me to buy?

You said something about private parties - can I legally buy a handgun from a private party?

michigannewbie · 02-10-2008, 11:07 PM

Glockmeister: thanks, I think I'll give my local sheriff a call tomorrow to find out if I qualify to buy in-state. I do not live on campus (no WAY would that be legal or smart), nor with anyone else this year, so it's all good.

Cyrano: Thank. Since I don't have any permits/guns etc I guess I'm screwed.

You said something about buying from private party. How do I do that?

GlockMeister · 02-10-2008, 11:13 PM

I'd just see, that since you've been there you said what, 8 months now, and if you get mail, maybe you qualify for residence in Michigan. But still ask. It can't hurt. And if you are still unsure, the safe thing is NOT to. You don't want to lose the right to own, for the rest of your life just to have one now.

G-Meister

rondog · 02-11-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michigannewbie

You said something about buying from private party. How do I do that?

Just like buying anything else from a private party, like car parts or a toaster. Find someone selling, look at it, like it, buy it, go home. But you run the big risk of "is it stolen, or otherwise illegal?" Perfectly legal to buy a gun face to face from an individual that wants to sell it, the risk is knowing the gun is legal or not. Never buy one that has funny looking numbers on it.

michigannewbie · 02-11-2008, 10:21 AM

I called the state police and I cannot get a Michigan license to purchase w/o state drivers license. Can I go to Ohio which doesn't require license and buy from non-FFL private at a gun show? If I buy from private party there is no requirement I do the NICS or show any Ohio ID right?

Cyrano · 02-12-2008, 08:56 PM

michigannewbie, I am beginning to think you have not thought the problem through. As has been pointed out, you don't want to do something dumb that might save you a few bucks but cost you your right to keep and bear arms for the rest of your life!

Yes, you can buy face-to-face out of state, at least in theory. Yes, you can take a chance and lock the pistol in the trunk, in a locked box, unloaded, with no ammo to hand. Yes, you could drive back to Michigan from Ohio and maybe not even get questioned about a gun if you were stopped for a moving violation.

It still would be very dumb to do it. It's incredibly dumb to do it when you have no psitol permit of any kind issued from anywhere, which by your own admission is your current situation. Down on the Powder Keg there is a thread about a member here named Ash who got his ass in a sling because he had multiple guns and ammo for them in his truck when he was stopped by the police. He's currently languishing in the pokey and looking at some serious jail time if he's convicted at trial, to say nothing of losing his Second Amendment rights after being convicted of a felony. And Ash has been shooting for years, and does have permits and such.

Be smart. Do it the right way. Get the necessary forms from Texas and put in for your pistol permit or CCW, however Texas issues them. Be glad your address of record is in a "shall issue" state that basically issues permits automatically if you have a clean record, which I presume you do. Call the county clerk's office in Michigan and confirm what my quick research indicates is the case, that a Texas pistol permit is recognized in Michigan and alloows you to transport and shoot/carry concealed in Michigan, depending on the permit. Jump through the necessary hoops, get the permit, then order the pistol you want either online or from a Texas gun dealer, and accept the fact you have to pay shipping and the transfer fee and go through an NICS check before you can walk out the door with it.

But for heaven's sake, don't be a idiot and do something stupid that will forever bar you from shooting sports! You have a lot of years ahead of you for shooting fun. It's worth waiting 6 or 8 weeks now to get the permit you need so you can shoot pistols legally. So do it already. GET YOUR PERMIT!

BloodRedStratus · 02-13-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michigannewbie

I called the state police and I cannot get a Michigan license to purchase w/o state drivers license. Can I go to Ohio which doesn't require license and buy from non-FFL private at a gun show? If I buy from private party there is no requirement I do the NICS or show any Ohio ID right?

As I said in your other post, it is illegal in the state of Ohio to sell a gun privately to a non Ohio resident with out going through a FFL. Someone may do it that doesn't care or know the laws but it is illegal. Then both you and the seller could get in trouble. If I where you, just wait till you get back to Texas this summer an do it the legal way.

rugernut · 02-13-2008, 04:58 PM

YOU WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT TILL SUMMER AND BUY WHAT YOU WANT IN TEXAS
YOU DONT NEED A PERMIT IN TEXAS OR ANYTHING THE ONLY PERMIT YOU WOULD NEED WOULD BE IF U CONCEAL CARY TEXAS IS ONE OF THE EASYER GOING STATES ON GUN LAWS

GlockMeister · 02-13-2008, 05:16 PM

Be smart about this michigannewbie. Just wait and do it the right way. Don't hand the anti-gunners any more ammunition to use against responsible, law-abiding gun owners.

I have to ask you this though, why is it so imperative you have one now, while in school? Are you in fear of your life or something? Has or did something happen that has caused the urgency that I'm getting from your wanting to acquire a firearm out of state? If none of the above is the case, PLEASE wait and get what you're wanting for when you are back home, where there, if you're of age and legal, there will be no question about the purchase.

G-Meister

blaster · 02-13-2008, 05:34 PM

You better get your ccw in Texas before bringing a pistol to Michigan. Pistols have to be registered in Michigan. but with another state's permit you are legal. otherwise an un registered pistol is a felony. when I lived in Mich. I was able to carry my pistol because of my Fl permit. residents could only carry (not concealed) if their pistol was registered. while I was there they passed a concealed carry permit law and now they can carry concealed but I think they still have to be registered.

02-10-2008, 10:41 PM	#1
michigannewbie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Help w/ purchase out of state I am a legal resident/citizen of Texas but I go to school in Michigan. I would like to purchase a handgun. Can I ONLINE order from TX and pick up in person from FFL dealer in Michigan? The laws make no sense.

02-10-2008, 10:55 PM	#2
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,292	I don't believe so, because you registered in Texas, and that would be where you'd have to not only have it shipped to, but picked up. I say that because that is where you arelicensed to own, not Michigan. So even if you bought it online, and had it shipped to Michigan, when you went to pick it up, they'd ask for what ever is required in Michigan and they'd see your licensed in Texas and say you can't legally purchase in Michigan. That's what I think anyhow. If I'm wrong, someone will let us both know. I do believe, you can buy it in Michigan, and have it shipped to an FFL in Texas, where you live, and pick it up there. But you'll have to see if that FFL in TX. would hold it until you can get it. Again, I may be wrong and if so, someone should know and inform us both. G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Last edited by GlockMeister; 02-10-2008 at 11:01 PM.

02-10-2008, 11:05 PM	#5
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,292	You may now qualify as a legal resident in Michigan. If so, you might be able to get whatever is required to buy a handgun in Michigan. Do you get any mail delivered in your name to your address in Michigan? Maybe if you can show residency in Michigan? Don't quote me on it. I would ask a gun dealer in Michigan. Tell them you go to school in Michigan, but live in TX. Ask if you get mail to a residence in Michigan, if you can file for a Michigan permit or license or again, whatever Michigan residents need. I'd also say, if you live on campus, you might not want to anyhow. You may get kicked out if they find out. Also, if you live with others, someone could steal it or find out and someone else might steal it? G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

02-10-2008, 11:07 PM	#7
michigannewbie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Glockmeister: thanks, I think I'll give my local sheriff a call tomorrow to find out if I qualify to buy in-state. I do not live on campus (no WAY would that be legal or smart), nor with anyone else this year, so it's all good. Cyrano: Thank. Since I don't have any permits/guns etc I guess I'm screwed. You said something about buying from private party. How do I do that? Last edited by michigannewbie; 02-10-2008 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

02-10-2008, 11:13 PM	#8
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,292	I'd just see, that since you've been there you said what, 8 months now, and if you get mail, maybe you qualify for residence in Michigan. But still ask. It can't hurt. And if you are still unsure, the safe thing is NOT to. You don't want to lose the right to own, for the rest of your life just to have one now. G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

02-10-2008, 11:01 PM	#3
michigannewbie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Sorry maybe I wasn't clear - I am in Michigan 8 months out of year now. But I am a Texas citizen. I won't be back in TX til summer, and I do not own any guns right now. Is there ANY legal way for me to get a handgun here, or do I have to wait until summer and then just take it up here when I come back?

02-10-2008, 11:02 PM	#4
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,609	In ten words or less, Michigannewbie, you can, but there are rules to be obeyed. The whole thing is a pain in the neck. Your address of record (that is, where you are registered to vote, where your driver's license is issued, that sort of thing), is in Texas. Assuming you have your Texas pistol permit, you can buy anything you can afford in a Texas gun shop and take it home with you after you pass the NICS check. Check out this link: Texas Department of Public Safety - Courtesy, Service, Protection If I am reading the law correctly, Texas does not recognize Michigan CCWs, but Michigan does recognize Texas CCWs. Here is the take the Michigan State police have on the issue: Non-residents of Michigan wishing to carry a concealed pistol in Michigan: If you are a non-resident of Michigan with a valid concealed pistol permit from your home state, Michigan will recognize your permit. However, you must carry in conformance with any and all restrictions appearing on the permit. You are subject to Michigan’s concealed pistol law including but not limited to restrictions on where a concealed pistol may be carried. Please review the information provided on this website for further information. If you buy a pistol from a dealer in Texas and have him ship it to a FFL holder in Michigan after you have found one who will cooperate with you and who has sent a copy of his FFL to the Texas dealer, the Texan can ship the pistol to the Michigander at your expense. The Michigan dealer will then charge you a transfer fee and run you though NICS before you can take your pistol out the door. But you have to have a current, valid Texas pistol permit or the discussion is moot. As far as I know, you can't buy a pistol over the counter from a Michigan dealer because you are from out of state. Private party sales are of course a different matter, or rather, a different can of worms. Frankly, you're better off dealing with a Texas gun dealer. I hope this makes things a little clearer to you.

02-10-2008, 11:06 PM	#6
michigannewbie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Thanks Cyrano. I don't own any guns now, have any permits, or anything, so I guess I'm screwed! How is it Constitutional, by the way, to make it basically impossible for me to buy? You said something about private parties - can I legally buy a handgun from a private party?

02-11-2008, 10:21 AM	#10
michigannewbie Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	I called the state police and I cannot get a Michigan license to purchase w/o state drivers license. Can I go to Ohio which doesn't require license and buy from non-FFL private at a gun show? If I buy from private party there is no requirement I do the NICS or show any Ohio ID right?

02-12-2008, 08:56 PM	#11
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,609	michigannewbie, I am beginning to think you have not thought the problem through. As has been pointed out, you don't want to do something dumb that might save you a few bucks but cost you your right to keep and bear arms for the rest of your life! Yes, you can buy face-to-face out of state, at least in theory. Yes, you can take a chance and lock the pistol in the trunk, in a locked box, unloaded, with no ammo to hand. Yes, you could drive back to Michigan from Ohio and maybe not even get questioned about a gun if you were stopped for a moving violation. It still would be very dumb to do it. It's incredibly dumb to do it when you have no psitol permit of any kind issued from anywhere, which by your own admission is your current situation. Down on the Powder Keg there is a thread about a member here named Ash who got his ass in a sling because he had multiple guns and ammo for them in his truck when he was stopped by the police. He's currently languishing in the pokey and looking at some serious jail time if he's convicted at trial, to say nothing of losing his Second Amendment rights after being convicted of a felony. And Ash has been shooting for years, and does have permits and such. Be smart. Do it the right way. Get the necessary forms from Texas and put in for your pistol permit or CCW, however Texas issues them. Be glad your address of record is in a "shall issue" state that basically issues permits automatically if you have a clean record, which I presume you do. Call the county clerk's office in Michigan and confirm what my quick research indicates is the case, that a Texas pistol permit is recognized in Michigan and alloows you to transport and shoot/carry concealed in Michigan, depending on the permit. Jump through the necessary hoops, get the permit, then order the pistol you want either online or from a Texas gun dealer, and accept the fact you have to pay shipping and the transfer fee and go through an NICS check before you can walk out the door with it. But for heaven's sake, don't be a idiot and do something stupid that will forever bar you from shooting sports! You have a lot of years ahead of you for shooting fun. It's worth waiting 6 or 8 weeks now to get the permit you need so you can shoot pistols legally. So do it already. *GET YOUR PERMIT!*

02-13-2008, 04:58 PM	#13
rugernut Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: TEXAS Posts: 62	YOU WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT TILL SUMMER AND BUY WHAT YOU WANT IN TEXAS YOU DONT NEED A PERMIT IN TEXAS OR ANYTHING THE ONLY PERMIT YOU WOULD NEED WOULD BE IF U CONCEAL CARY TEXAS IS ONE OF THE EASYER GOING STATES ON GUN LAWS

02-13-2008, 05:16 PM	#14
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,292	Be smart about this michigannewbie. Just wait and do it the right way. Don't hand the anti-gunners any more ammunition to use against responsible, law-abiding gun owners. I have to ask you this though, why is it so imperative you have one now, while in school? Are you in fear of your life or something? Has or did something happen that has caused the urgency that I'm getting from your wanting to acquire a firearm out of state? If none of the above is the case, PLEASE wait and get what you're wanting for when you are back home, where there, if you're of age and legal, there will be no question about the purchase. G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

02-13-2008, 05:34 PM	#15
blaster Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: big pine key, florida Posts: 370	You better get your ccw in Texas before bringing a pistol to Michigan. Pistols have to be registered in Michigan. but with another state's permit you are legal. otherwise an un registered pistol is a felony. when I lived in Mich. I was able to carry my pistol because of my Fl permit. residents could only carry (not concealed) if their pistol was registered. while I was there they passed a concealed carry permit law and now they can carry concealed but I think they still have to be registered. __________________ peace through superior firepower

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