[Uncle Red]

I know this is the 9/.40/.45 page, and while I wholeheartedly agree with DTH about the .357; I've been wondering about the .357 Sig of late. I know it's a .40 S&W case necked down to accept a 9mm bullet. The numbers on this ctg. look good. But I want to know how it stacks up against the others? What real world experience is there concerning the .357 Sig? -UR

Quote:       Originally Posted by Uncle Red

I've been wondering about the .357 Sig of late. I know it's a .40 S&W case necked down to accept a 9mm bullet. The numbers on this ctg. look good. But I want to know how it stacks up against the others? What real world experience is there concerning the .357 Sig? -UR

The Case for the .45 ACP

[RC4]

Quote:       Originally Posted by gunssb

I don't buy the argument that a .45acp is not accurate. I can shoot much better at 25 yd with my springfield 1911 than a 9mm beretta that I've tried - well I do have a better trigger & sights than a stock SA GI but most people will tell you that a 45 is inherently accurate. I do need to get a 9mm though - sometimes I can't find the time to reload, don't have a lot of money and 9mm ammo is $5 a box.

Yeah, I guess its all relative. If you look at the ballistics of the .45 rounds in comparison with the 9mm or 10mm, the trajectory will vary more over a shorter distance with the .45acp. However, in a real life situation under 25 yards, the difference is really too small to matter.

[gunney_m]

Table 1. Total Number of Source Cases
Caliber

Petersen's
Handguns
November
1988
Handgun
Stopping
Power
1992
Street
Stoppers

1996

.22 Long Rifle 3922.25 ACP 6366.32 ACP12157206.380 ACP124327534.38 Special1177157134699mm Parabellum32812302347.357 Magnum64013491527.40 S&W 32710mm 112.41 Magnum73183218.44 Special73134197.44 Magnum203242298.45 ACP2177441019.45 Long Colt123199200Total Cases3024613620742Total Increase 311214606Average Per Year 7783652Average Per Day 210

[Bravo]

Gunney, I don't know what to make of that data...

[gunney_m]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Bravo

Gunney, I don't know what to make of that data...

It came out different than I found it.

[phoenix79]

where does this data come from?

[Palladin8]

Quote:       Originally Posted by 7mmag6

I have a 1911a 45. good round hits hard as we all know, but when your butts on the line 14 rounds from a 9mm, gets them all,thats why the army introduced the 9mm, good knock down power, maybe a little weak, but you can carry more rounds, and the baretta wont jam, you can run a truck over it, put in water, bang the crap out of it, and it will still shoot

I couldn't disagree with the above statement more. The reason the Military switched from .45ACP to the 9mm was to conform to NATO since we forced NATO countries to switch to the 5.56(.223) caliber as well as the supply theroy of every country using the 9mm. Another reason was that many felt that women could not qualify with the .45 as the weapon was heavy and had a harsher recoil than the smaller 9mm.
The Baretta did not score the highest in the testing and in fact it failed the 10,000 round test. The slides were cracking at 5,000+ rounds. The weapon that scored the highest was the Glock 17 but because the Glock did not have an external safety it could not be selected because they felt the Military personnel were not compentent enough and would shoot themselves or others.

With that said the 9mm caliber in the +p with a good hollow point performs very well in defensive shootings. I have a Glock model 23 in .40s&w and I own two Kimber .45acps as well as a Kimber 10mm. I prefer the larger caliber pistols and feel more comfortable knowing that the heavier bullet will penetrate better if the hollow point fails to expand.
It really comes down to personal preference in my opinnion.

Scott

[gunney_m]

Quote:       Originally Posted by phoenix79

where does this data come from?

I google searched it and it was under one shot stop calibers, hold on and ill find it for you.


Here it is.....



One-Shot-Stop Percentage

[stikbutter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Logansdad

The Case for the .45 ACP

You know I asked a similar question a while back. 9mm vs 40 vs 357sig. and got very little response, nothing of any importance. It gets asked again in a different form and all kind of good feed back. I guess you guys were hunting. Logansdad great info on the 357sig. I've been thinking about one for a while went out with my boss and shot his and it shoots great. He has a Springfield XD with 357sig and 40 conversion kit, and it shoots great. The info. you posted was what I was looking for thanks again.

[Coeloptera]

Quote:       Originally Posted by gunney_m

It came out different than I found it.

Now that's very interesting. Now I'm glad I tend to go with the .357 Magnum. But what a dropoff for the .357s. Though that's not too surprising.

That aside, the difference between the .357 and the .40 seems pretty negligible in stopping percentages. I do recall that the .40 was developed after the 10mm proved to be a bit too much to handle for FBI agents in the field. I will agree with Gyrene that, in my experience, the .40 seems to have more recoil than a .45 ACP. My wife has tended to agree with that assessment (she usually goes .45).

I also do find myself compelled to ask about the military going over to the 9mm. I understand having to conform to NATO standards (like the Warsaw Pact nations tended towards the same ammo...mind you there were tons of SKSes and AKs so it's easy for them), but despite the higher capacity, isn't the 9mm a little underpowered for military use? Or was it changed with the assumption that the sidearm wouldn't see a great deal of use compared to an AR, SMG, carbine, or rifle?

- Coeloptera

[nathangdad]

The army tested all sorts of ammunition almost 100 years ago. The .45 230 grain won. Why, why, why, do people drag out these questions?

[Ruckus]

Quote:       Originally Posted by gunney_m

It came out different than I found it.

Granted I've only been shot with a 9mm, those stats look a little off. I believe the 9mm/.38 spc should be dead on equal, the 10 mm should have taken the cake above even the .357, the .357 should have been more than 1% higher than the .45 --- This is just my opinion.

As for the original question, the .40 and .45 are tied. The .45 is a bigger/heavier load while the .40 is lighter/faster. The .40 cal round will penetrate better than the .45 round, the .45 makes a wider hole. Thunder or lightning? I've shot both, have no problem handling the recoil of either. In fact the recoil is not noticeably different with my guns. I preffer the .40 for a carry weapon as I have small hands it just fits better, like a 9mm would, but with .45 stopping power.

[Taurus Fan]

I was always a Jeff Cooper fan, first handgun I bought was a .45 auto, eventually owned 4 of them when I shot IPSC. I always sneered at the puny little 9mm until I bought one because it was on sale. I instantly fell in love with it's light recoil and 16 round capacity. I think the latest generation +P hollow points will do just fine. When you look at the data on shootings, it's effectiveness is edged out by bigger, more powerful cartridges, but not by much.

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Bravo

Gunney, I don't know what to make of that data...

Eye strain maybe? lol

[Aqualung]

The Serrif department in my town doesn't let cops carry 9mm handguns because the amount of powder compared to the size of the bullet creates a lot of spin. The amount of spin makes it so it's very difficult to, say, shoot through glass or other similar things. I don't know how they know this, but it's stained my perception of 9mms.

[Taurus Fan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Aqualung

The Serrif department in my town doesn't let cops carry 9mm handguns because the amount of powder compared to the size of the bullet creates a lot of spin. The amount of spin makes it so it's very difficult to, say, shoot through glass or other similar things. I don't know how they know this, but it's stained my perception of 9mms.

I'm sorry, that's wrong in so many ways it boggles the mind. Seriously, whoever told you that has no knowledge of the subject at all and may as well have strung together a series of random syllables for all the sense it makes. It's like claiming that Ferrari's go fast because they're painted red.

[ander254]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

It's like claiming that Ferrari's go fast because they're painted red.

Whats the first thing that import racers put on their cars? Stickers and a huge wing. They think it makes them go faster

[Aqualung]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

I'm sorry, that's wrong in so many ways it boggles the mind. Seriously, whoever told you that has no knowledge of the subject at all and may as well have strung together a series of random syllables for all the sense it makes. It's like claiming that Ferrari's go fast because they're painted red.

Lol, well thanks for putting me straight.

[FS00008]

I think it's personal preference really. I love my 640J with .357mag and I love my 1911 with .45ACP. I really want to get a .45 Colt asap though.