[gunadvocate]

A lot of variable could play into your deer running 75 yard before dropping with the 30.06 while the .223 made the other fall down where it stood. Typically the 30.06 is the drop down... could be individual fight in the deer. A more precise look at exactly what the bullet hit and where it hit. Maybe even the size of the deer.

At any rate either caliber is well suited (and intentionally made) for killing, thus both will work with proper shot placement

[ACfixer]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

I know of no animal that can survive a 55gr slug ripping out half of his mind, two-legged or four. As my uncle once told me, "I've tried every spice, every seasoning, and every way of cooking 'em...but I just can't make those horns tender OR tasty." We take headshots, because it's a one-shot stop. We aren't concerned with mounting heads on the wall, but we are concerned with cheap and tasty steaks.

Then why use a .223? Why not use a .416 Rigby and blow his whole freakin' head off? I'm figuring you're not going to eat his teeth, his nose, or his spine right?

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Tack Driver

You can make a much cleaner kill with a .30-06 versus a .223

You ever seen what a 55gr silvertip does to a deer's brainstem? I'll send photos when I get the opportunity to take them...opening day is in two weeks here.

Right at the base of the brain, brother. Disintegrate that bone and shove it all straight through the cerebellum and brain stem. Dead deer, dead right there, and you've still saved all the meat.

A .223 may not have the same energy on target as a .30-06, but I can pick George Washington's nose from the other side of a football field. Daddy's Garand has peep sights, and I have bad vision. My 3-9x scope corrects that, and the rest is all in the shooter's technique.

If I can put one through Bambi's eye at 150yds with my AR, but would have difficulty using the M1 to score a heart/lung shot at a distance farther than 50, what's gonna give me the cleaner shot?

[Paper]

Quote:       Originally Posted by gunadvocate

At any rate either caliber is well suited (and intentionally made) for killing, thus both will work with proper shot placement

I couldn't agree more, but I disagree with someone stating that a .223 won't make as clean of a kill as a 30-06.. My last 6 deer disagree, too..

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ACfixer

Then why use a .223? Why not use a .416 Rigby and blow his whole freakin' head off? I'm figuring you're not going to eat his teeth, his nose, or his spine right?

Have you priced a box of .416 Rigby lately? If you can buy a hundred rounds of that to piss away on the range for practice, for under $35 (tax included), I'd be all for it...

In all honesty, if I "had my 'druthers", I'd use my .22LR...because I don't hunt any farther than 100yd due to available terrain, and it's the most accurate weapon I possess at that distance. I am the son of a man born in a house with no running water, and was taught at an early age that you "use what you got". Deer won't survive a headshot with a .22LR at 100yds, and they don't run off. My uncle's numerous kills (back when it was still legal, of course) are testament to this.

Since I can't use my weapon of choice and remain within the boundaries of the law, I'll use what I can shoot the best within said boundaries. As it stands, my AR fulfills that role, even better than my .243 Browning SA does. On top of that, going through a hundred rounds at the range isn't going to force me to sell a kidney to afford it.

If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, my next AR will be an AR10...

[gunadvocate]

Thats why I just jump down from the deer stand with my KaBar out and get it the old fashioned way...


But that would be sweet if it was true hahaha

[Tack Driver]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

You ever seen what a 55gr silvertip does to a deer's brainstem? I'll send photos when I get the opportunity to take them...opening day is in two weeks here. Right at the base of the brain, brother. Disintegrate that bone and shove it all straight through the cerebellum and brain stem. Dead deer, dead right there, and you've still saved all the meat. A .223 may not have the same energy on target as a .30-06, but I can pick George Washington's nose from the other side of a football field. Daddy's Garand has peep sights, and I have bad vision. My 3-9x scope corrects that, and the rest is all in the shooter's technique. If I can put one through Bambi's eye at 150yds with my AR, but would have difficulty using the M1 to score a heart/lung shot at a distance farther than 50, what's gonna give me the cleaner shot?

It's a crying shame when someone taking a headshot blows a deer's jaw off, and it dies extremely slowly. I'm sure you're better than that.

[Tack Driver]

Zombie Hunter, I'd feel much better when you get that AR-10.

[Ferroflame]

Use a .22short!

Not really. Honestly, I wouldn't shoot a deer with anything less than a well placed .223.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Tack Driver

Zombie Hunter, I'd feel much better when you get that AR-10.

I have this funny feeling that you aren't the only one. Just thinking about that AR10 is giving me a fluffy!

But seriously, opening day is this coming Saturday. Hopefully, photos will be coming soon...

[Crassh]

I carried my AR for deer season this year but didnt have a chance to try it. I also was concerned with the power so I started looking at a new upper for my AR. I also looked at the 6.8 spc, Stag Arms has a hunting specific upper assembly in 6.8 for about $600. Don't no much about 6.8 but Guns & Ammo did a peace on it and said it was a great deer round. Hornedy makes a 115gr V-max for it. I also think 30-06 is to big for deer, elk yes but not deer. It can destroy way to much meat, it happened in our camp this year. In the end we deer hunt for the meet right, so if you ruin half the meet you are kind of missing the point. 6.8 might be the solution and still in AR platform wich i really enjoyed carring this year.

[Paper]

I have 200 rounds of 55 grain pointed soft point ammo coming Monday from AIM.. That translates into 199 deer, and 1 round for sighting in to the different ammo..

[jrswanson1]

Crassh,

Go to Silver State Armory's site and pick up some of their Accubond ammo. The V-Max explodes when it hits bone. The Accubond is a great bullet and the SSA load has been great for deer and hogs.

Jim

[cjleete]

Plenty of deer were taken with patched 45 and 50 caliber roundballs that have signifigantly less energy than a modern rifle round.

[jrswanson1]

Quote:       Originally Posted by cjleete

Plenty of deer were taken with patched 45 and 50 caliber roundballs that have signifigantly less energy than a modern rifle round.

Now that's not quite true. I've seen Jim Shockey take a Cape Buffalo with a muzzleloader. I don't see him doing the same thing with a .223. If you're comparing the energy of a muzzle loader versus a magnum centerfire rifle, then yes. But you can get ballistics comparable to several non-magnum rifles with the front loader.

Jim

[ProfessorP]

I'm just wondering where those of you who claim bigger guns ruin too much meat are aiming ? I have used from a 223 to a 7mmRemMag (and in between) on deer, none of which damages meat more than another.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Paper

I have 200 rounds of 55 grain pointed soft point ammo coming Monday from AIM.. That translates into 199 deer, and 1 round for sighting in to the different ammo..

What brand are you going with? I've used the Remington 55gr PSP, and my rifle doesn't like it anywhere near as much as some of the other rounds I've used. I can't get better than a 2" group out of a mag of those at 100yds. Their 55gr JHPs seem to be quite a bit more accurate, at least in my rifle.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ProfessorP

I'm just wondering where those of you who claim bigger guns ruin too much meat are aiming ? I have used from a 223 to a 7mmRemMag (and in between) on deer, none of which damages meat more than another.

That's an excellent question. I was under the impression that there wasn't much meat to be found inside that skull!

[Paper]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

What brand are you going with? I've used the Remington 55gr PSP, and my rifle doesn't like it anywhere near as much as some of the other rounds I've used. I can't get better than a 2" group out of a mag of those at 100yds. Their 55gr JHPs seem to be quite a bit more accurate, at least in my rifle.

ZH,
I just got in a 200 round pack of Prvi 55grain soft points from AIM.. They just arrived today, so I can't say how they'll run through the rifle until I get a chance to try them.. AIM Prvi Partizan PPU .223 Remington 55grn Soft Point Prvi Partizan PPU .223 Remington 55grn Soft Point

The stuff I had been using was Prvi's 75 grain hollow point boat tail match ammo and my 1-9 Shaw stainless barreled Model 1 Sales CAR sure loves em'!! The rifle's got an Eotech 512 on it, and at 100 yards it has no problem sticking a 5 shot group in a 2" bullseye, with room to spare.The group was about 1 1/4" total. I wasn't sure how the heavy bullets would act in the 1-9 barrel, but it shot them very well.
The Eotech's dot is already 1MOA, so holding it in a 2" bull at that yardage is enough of a challenge, but I had no complaints.

I planned on using that ammo for deer season, but I'll see how these 55 grain soft points do in the same rifle.

I also picked up a barely used DPMS 5.56 Sportical, and I think I'll toss a scope on it and see how it likes both rounds, too.. Not that the Sportical's a slouch, but it's a less expensive rifle that's very light, which will make carrying and handling easier than my heavy barreled CAR. It's not like I'll be firing a bunch of rounds while deer hunting, anyway. Where I'm using the gun for hunting, most, if not all shots will be less than 100 yards, so it's not like I'll be heating the barrel up.

My biggest problems are that it's getting close to deer season and with the time change, my range is much busier after work than any other time of the year. Normally, I have it to myself, or just a couple people at the most.. Which gives me time to allow a gun to completely cool between shots, just like that first (and most important) shot will be when hunting.

Maybe tomorrow I'll have a report on the ammo??

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Paper

ZH, I just got in a 200 round pack of Prvi 55grain soft points from AIM.. They just arrived today, so I can't say how they'll run through the rifle until I get a chance to try them.. AIM Prvi Partizan PPU .223 Remington 55grn Soft Point Prvi Partizan PPU .223 Remington 55grn Soft Point The stuff I had been using was Prvi's 75 grain hollow point boat tail match ammo and my 1-9 Shaw stainless barreled Model 1 Sales CAR sure loves em'!! The rifle's got an Eotech 512 on it, and at 100 yards it has no problem sticking a 5 shot group in a 2" bullseye, with room to spare.The group was about 1 1/4" total. I wasn't sure how the heavy bullets would act in the 1-9 barrel, but it shot them very well. The Eotech's dot is already 1MOA, so holding it in a 2" bull at that yardage is enough of a challenge, but I had no complaints. I planned on using that ammo for deer season, but I'll see how these 55 grain soft points do in the same rifle. I also picked up a barely used DPMS 5.56 Sportical, and I think I'll toss a scope on it and see how it likes both rounds, too.. Not that the Sportical's a slouch, but it's a less expensive rifle that's very light, which will make carrying and handling easier than my heavy barreled CAR. It's not like I'll be firing a bunch of rounds while deer hunting, anyway. Where I'm using the gun for hunting, most, if not all shots will be less than 100 yards, so it's not like I'll be heating the barrel up. My biggest problems are that it's getting close to deer season and with the time change, my range is much busier after work than any other time of the year. Normally, I have it to myself, or just a couple people at the most.. Which gives me time to allow a gun to completely cool between shots, just like that first (and most important) shot will be when hunting. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a report on the ammo??

Definitely let me know how they do. I'm sick as a dog right now, hoping that whatever I've got goes away before this weekend...but for today, I'm playing keyboard commando at home, trying to keep from infecting my coworkers!

I'm using a Rock River Predator Pursuit upper...20" HB with 1:8 twist, it should like those heavier rounds. Unfortunately, I can't find jack squat around here...looks like I'll be doing some online shopping in the future.

If you're using a heavy barrel, you shouldn't have any issues with heat buildup affecting your accuracy. I regularly put full mags through mine in fairly rapid succession, and the rounds don't stray any more than they will through a cold barrel, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

One thing I would suggest, when scoping up that sportical, is using whatever riser/rings necessary to but the barrel bore exactly three inches below the centerline of your scope. Do this, and then zero the rifle at 75yds using a 55gr round...that will put your point of impact elevation within 1.5" from 40yds to 350yds, due to scope height geometry and bullet drop.