[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mojo

HAHA & nope still kick their ass or shoot them in their ass with the .22! I believe in shot placement but when people (including the DNR or G&F) says its ok to use something on big game, then theres plenty of idiots out there that think they can use those calibers for any shot taken. I'm NOT attacking you with that statement! its about some hunters in general. though if you want to take some kind of offense then this next part have at it. not everyone hunts over a bait pile/feeder at measured yardage (what 20-50 yards ?) & shoots animals standing still. this kind of hunting is bringing in livestock! cuz the more money you spend on bait the more animals you have to choose from, so it comes down to who is willing to spend the most on bait to bag the animal. IMO go buy some livestock animals or hunt caged animals cuz its about the same! can you shoot a deer in the head (clean kill) at unkown yardages, more or less guessing, while the deer is running or troting through the woods or field ? we all know you can do it at a pre-measured bait site & standing still. I know people can kill BIG game with the correct type of airguns & with correct shot placement, does that mean all DNR/G&F should allow everyone the chance to hunt with them ? with the correct shot placement you could kill a deer with a blowgun too, also you could even use a .17 rifle with the correct shotplacement. so should everyone be allowed to use any weapon to hunt big game since with correct shot placement it can be done, while having thousands of idiots out there just wounding the animals! ? (not attacking you! just hunters in general!) also lets not forget you can also kill big game with snares & traps, so should we also allow those ?

Mojo, you seem to think that the majority of hunters don't know what they are doing!

We use "feeders" where I hunt, but typically place them as far away from the stand as possible. The reason for this is simple: NOISE CONTROL.

Regardless, I set my rifle up a certain way, and with the rounds I use the point of impact will be within 3" of the crosshairs from muzzle to 300yds...and within one inch from 50 to 200yds. If that ain't close enough for a headshot, that deer is too small to be shooting.

Also, many people are smart enough to at least guesstimate range to a "close enough" degree.

While I may be new to the world of AR shooting, I am certainly not new to shooting in general. Around these parts, this is the rule rather than the exception. You speak of "hunters in general" not being able to make such shots, but the fact is that most people who hunt around here CAN make such shots.

Texas has a law stating that it is a CRIME to wound an animal and not make every effort to track it and kill it. There's no reason that we should be putting more restrictions on the books because some people want to be lazy.

Making it a crime to hunt deer with a .223 does absolutely nothing to me except make me spend another $800 for a new upper receiver...

[azhunter918]

I recently read a story of Jack O Connor taking desert coues deer with a .22 LR. His take on it was accurate shot placement within killing range of the weapon. IMHO if you are confident enough to take an animal with a weapon, take it. if your primary concern is that the animal will feel pain, then perhaps hunting isn't for you.

[k-80]

i dont really see a problem with the .223 for deer as long as you are sure you can kill quick and clean. nobody likes a sloppy bloody mess that prolongs the death of the animal. the .223 is a varmit cal not a large game cal.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by k-80

i dont really see a problem with the .223 for deer as long as you are sure you can kill quick and clean. nobody likes a sloppy bloody mess that prolongs the death of the animal. the .223 is a varmit cal not a large game cal.

My deer left very little blood on the ground. Then again, having your cerebellum ripped apart by a "varmint" round kinda kills you instantly...

[k-80]

quick and clean, quick and clean..

[338RUM]

I like shooting deer in the head with a 435 grain paper patched round from a 1895 High Wall 45/70 if you think that little poodle popper makes a mess.... you need to graduate to a WHOLE NEW MEANING OF MESS!!!!!

[k-80]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

My deer left very little blood on the ground. Then again, having your cerebellum ripped apart by a "varmint" round kinda kills you instantly...

that IF you hit the deer there. the average hunter who only takes 20 shots a year cant do that at 100 yds

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by k-80

that IF you hit the deer there. the average hunter who only takes 20 shots a year cant do that at 100 yds

Where do "hunters" only take 20 shots a year?

[OldMike]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

Where do "hunters" only take 20 shots a year?

I think there are lots of hunters who only take 20 shots a year (if that) with their 'deer' rifles.

That is the beauty of hunting with an AR. It is a rifle that many shoot thousands of rounds a year with. So making the perfect shot comes more naturally with it if it is the same rifle you shoot all year long...

[FortyXDM]

In this day and age, hunting of most any type is not cheap. No one should reach past a .243, 270, 30 cal etc, to use a .223 for deer hunting. It makes no sense other than to stroke their ego. If you are poor and hunt at home and must have deer meat to get by, then I agree with the exception.
We should all be stewards of the sport and approach it from an ethical perspective. In a "real" hunting situation, anyone who has hunted for any length of time knows that not every shot is going to be placed as planned. It doesn't work that way. (except from the armchair or keyboard). Most of us learned the value of "only take a reliable shot", "know your gun", and "use enough gun"

Tom

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by OldMike

I think there are lots of hunters who only take 20 shots a year (if that) with their 'deer' rifles. That is the beauty of hunting with an AR. It is a rifle that many shoot thousands of rounds a year with. So making the perfect shot comes more naturally with it if it is the same rifle you shoot all year long...

I guess that's why it all seems so strange to me. I couldn't see getting into a hobby where I was going to only put a partial effort into it.

People who can't shoot well enough to brain a deer at 100yds (through a scope, no less!) with any decent rifle they pick up probably shouldn't be hunting anyway.

Regardless, a decent 55gr PSP is going to get the job done, even if you have to shove it through the deer's heart and lungs.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...6/killzone.jpg

This is a photo I just randomly found, displaying a deer's vital organs. If you move that green circle to the base of the brain, instead of being behind the shoulder, you get an instant kill. No running, no looking for a blood trail, nada. Bambi drops like a bucket of bricks.

I could see not wanting to take a headshot if your target was moving, but then again, I would be hesitant to take ANY shot if that deer was on the run, out of fear that I would merely wound it and/or spoil the meat.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by FortyXDM

In this day and age, hunting of most any type is not cheap. No one should reach past a .243, 270, 30 cal etc, to use a .223 for deer hunting. It makes no sense other than to stroke their ego. If you are poor and hunt at home and must have deer meat to get by, then I agree with the exception. We should all be stewards of the sport and approach it from an ethical perspective. In a "real" hunting situation, anyone who has hunted for any length of time knows that not every shot is going to be placed as planned. It doesn't work that way. (except from the armchair or keyboard). Most of us learned the value of "only take a reliable shot", "know your gun", and "use enough gun" Tom

You don't practice until you get it right, you practice until you don't get it wrong.

[Capt.Hotpants]

my dad doesnt shoot much at all. But he can do things with a Remington 700 in 7mm Mag that would make some peoples heads spin. He shoots 2 to sight the rifle in, then he just fills his tags. I know quite a few guys who shoot less than a box a year and they do great deer hunting.

I've seen him shoot deer at 325 yards with his rem 700 and drop em. Most ive ever seen him shoot out of a rifle was when i let him shoot my WASR and my AR-15. Farthest shot I ever took was with a rem 700 in 7mm shortmag (hated that gun) about 250 yards and dropped a Doe. I never liked the 7mm short magnums, too much recoil. 7mm mag is a nice dull thump where the short mag is a sharp kick.

I shoot does in the head, saves meat and its a quick painless clean kill. No fuss no mess, AND they dont run anywhere!

I would love to use my Ar-15. But here in Michigan we have a 5 round limit for hunting (just for hunting and nothing else) and 5 round Ar mags are not cheap. Odds are I'll probably just use the Ruger mk77 in .270win again.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Capt.Hotpants

I would love to use my Ar-15. But here in Michigan we have a 5 round limit for hunting (just for hunting and nothing else) and 5 round Ar mags are not cheap. Odds are I'll probably just use the Ruger mk77 in .270win again.

I don't really see the point in that, if they're going to allow rifles with detachable box mags.

Just don't really make sense to me, considering how easy it is to reload and all...

[jaeger]

Quote:       Originally Posted by FortyXDM

In this day and age, hunting of most any type is not cheap. No one should reach past a .243, 270, 30 cal etc, to use a .223 for deer hunting. It makes no sense other than to stroke their ego. If you are poor and hunt at home and must have deer meat to get by, then I agree with the exception. We should all be stewards of the sport and approach it from an ethical perspective. In a "real" hunting situation, anyone who has hunted for any length of time knows that not every shot is going to be placed as planned. It doesn't work that way. (except from the armchair or keyboard). Most of us learned the value of "only take a reliable shot", "know your gun", and "use enough gun" Tom

I am guilty of this. I went hunting on my uncles property outside of Kaytee TX and he insisted I bring a .223. I did take a nice buck with a drt double lung shot, but I will not be doing it again. Not only is shot placement critical, but selecting the correct ammo is important. If you use a 55gr FMJ your asking for trouble. I used a 62GR soft point.

[FortyXDM]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

You don't practice until you get it right, you practice until you don't get it wrong.

All the practice in the world won't remove every possibility in real hunting. You should know that.

[ZombieHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by FortyXDM

All the practice in the world won't remove every possibility in real hunting. You should know that.

Neither will choosing the "correct" (in your view, anyhow) rifle...and you should know that.

[FortyXDM]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

Neither will choosing the "correct" (in your view, anyhow) rifle...and you should know that.

I would use the word "correct", because it is the responsible and logical thing to do, not because it is something I am trying to prove to others.

The overwhelming majority of hunters who have first hand experience will tell you that a .223 is simply a "varmint" round. That is what it was created for, and that is what it remains.

[k-80]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ZombieHunter

Where do "hunters" only take 20 shots a year?

not every hunter shoots thousands of rounds a year. .270 isnt as cheap as .223. many hunters buy one box to sight with and hunt with, thats all the shooting they do for the year.

[chesterwin]

In some states a .223/5.56 round is illegal for deer. That should explain the marginal capacity for using it. Use enough gun. Some shots are going to be off just slightly, otherwise that dime would look like a washer.