[Montana_Mauser]

Give me a break with all the bleeding hearts for deer. I'd kill a deer with a spear if I thought I could pull it off, and I would have every natural right to do so. As long as you're not intentionally torturing it to death (i.e. needles and hot coals) then I don't see anything cruel about it.
Point is if you're good enough to hit the deer with a .223 and kill it quickly enough to find the body, then I don't see any reason why not to. If you (like me) aren't an expert sharpshooter you might want to take something a little bigger.

[Cyrano]

Quote:       Originally Posted by akguy

I have heard of Eskimos killing polar bears with .22s must have been suicidal

The way I heard that one, the polar bear invaded the Eskimo's igloo. He jammed his .22 into the bear's eye and fired. Straight down the optic nerve into the brain - game over. But I hardly need point out this is not a recommended way to take a polar bear.

Same thing with a .223 Remington/5.56 NATO round. At close range it will do the job, but you can't rely on it no matter what kind of bullet you have on top of the cartridge case. There's a reason many states won't let you hunt with that cartridge. People will try for shots either they can't make or are too far away to rely on the bullet doing the job. Result: wounded deer that has to be tracked down, or that evades pursuit to die later.

I have no problem with the Ar-15 type rifle as a hunting arm, provided it's chambered for a cartridge powerful enough to make one shot kills at ranges of 200 yards or more. The .223 is not that cartridge, if the reports from Iraq are anything to go by.

My personal opinion and that of most hunters I know is to use something with more authority than the .223 if you are hunting deer. The idea is to make clean kills with one shot so the animal does not suffer, at any range. I wish the adherents of the .223 as a deer cartridge would keep that in mind.

[HEMI]

Montana great attitude!!! If you have no respect for the game you are hunting, don't hunt!!!!

[223Shooter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Montana_Mauser

Give me a break with all the bleeding hearts for deer. I'd kill a deer with a spear if I thought I could pull it off, and I would have every natural right to do so. As long as you're not intentionally torturing it to death (i.e. needles and hot coals) then I don't see anything cruel about it. Point is if you're good enough to hit the deer with a .223 and kill it quickly enough to find the body, then I don't see any reason why not to. If you (like me) aren't an expert sharpshooter you might want to take something a little bigger.

amen montana


also, i have another question.....where do you guys get this "most states" crap?...is there a list some were that tells you what states allow and disallow 22 centerfires for deer hunting?.....id sure love to see that list. i looked and couldnt find one.unless a person has facts to back up what they say, they should probably not comment, especially on a subject as sore as this.just because YOUR state doesn't alow there use doesnt mean MOST STATES dont allow there use. furthermore, how many of you guys who holler its to small have actually shot a deer with one and had it run off?...not many id bet...if you did, its most likely because you were either a poor shot, or tried to shoot beyond your limits. no one ever said that a 22 centerfire was a 600 yard gun, its not. from what the DFG biologist told me, most shots on deer in california are within 100 yards.

it just cracks me up because all of these guys are just repeating what they have heard or read elsewere and dont speak from true experience. if they did make a poor shot on a deer and have t run off with a 223, there not going to admit it and make themselves look like a fool...lol.....something else i find comical. these guys holler to small, but yet if you look around online every guy whos hunted with a 223 and got the chance to shoot a deer with it has been very happy with the performance.

its like ive mentioned before. you see all these guys on here hollering "oh, a 223 is to small, it wounds game and they suffer"....well, why arent you on here sniveling that a bow isnt good for deer hunting?...way more deer are wounded and lost by bowhunters each year than by 223 hunters by FAR.

so its OK to make a so-so shot on a deer with a bow, let him run off and die in the woods somewere bleeding to death, but its not OK to shoot one with a 223?


how stuipid and idiotic is that?

[HEMI]

Ya because everyone online would tell you the truth.
Deer vary in size in north america Florida has deer around 70lbs I have shot Whitetail here that weighed over 300. Do you say the 22cal is okay for them all? The question is 223/ar15 good for deer hunting, That means all deer, all situations.

[223Shooter]

WELL, i can say that ive killed mule deer in modoc county california,zone X3-A, off of the top of glass moutain across the canyon with my sako 222 so far away it was difficult to see them with the naked eye, and they averaged dressed hanging between 260 and 275lbs. my fahter used the same gun years ago on a tule elk hunt in humbolt county and killed a monster elk buck, and dropped it in its tracks.

let me say this. i will give you that it may not be the best gun for every situation ( such as those 350-500 yard shots) , and its not a good brush gun ( ive seen a 223 round hit a blade of grass and fly way off course) BUT it WILL take any north american animal ( with the exception of bear) without any difficulty within its range.

i would also have to agree that it does amount to what you personally are comfortable hunting with, and how confident a shot you are.

my complaint is the blanket statment that a 223 is to small and inhumane for deer hunting, but yet you never hear anyone sniveling about how inhumane it is to stick a deer with an arrow and have them run 500 yards before they crawl into a manzanita patch and rot. heaven forbit someone should knock bow hunting!.....

hunt with what you feel confident in shooting. if you like getting beat to death and bruised by shooting a big ass 50BMG or something else that will gut skin and cook your deer for you, then by all means, kick your own rump...

one other thing i would mention though, is that bullet construction is critical, just as it is for all deer calibers. i wouldnt recomend shooting one with one of the ballistic tipped varmint bullets ( i have, and the damage, while devistating, jellies the meat and can cause alot of loss). i am an avid reloader, and personally i use hornady match hollowpoints in 60 and 68gr. while they do peel, they still retain enough weight for good penetration

to me personally, unless someone has first hand experience with hunting deer with a 223, and have some sort of horror story or something logical and intellegent to say pretaining to that first hand experience, as far as i see it, there not qualified to comment or give an opinion because all they are doing is repeating something that they have read or heard from someone else. i mean, how can you comment intellegently on any subject you have absolutely no experience with?.....


hunt with what you feel confortable with, but make no mistake, 222,223 and in the right hands 22 hornet and 22 K hornet are more than worthy to be in deer woods during season.

[HEMI]

Wow from a deer gun to a everything gun huh, I have never seen a buck elk before where do you hunt them? We only have bulls here, I think the 223 is over kill for moose so I use a bee man .177 pellet rifle I killed a boar moose in the Yukon while having lunch in Toronto.

Your post is about the stupidest I have ever read, I can see a deer with my naked eye at close to a mile away, you claim to have shot them that far away with a 222.
I suppose that was with open sites too huh!!! You need to take up another hobby you are not wanted in this one.

[223Shooter]

i ment bull elk


not wanted in this "hobby"?
what a joke, and what a freakin idiot

OH, that explains it, your CANADIAN.


if you guys what to listen to idiots like this fool or any of the other idiots, be my guest. hes lucky if he can even OWN a firearm, let alone hunt a real animal. id be real suprised if he can even OWN a 223 in canada.....what a joke.


anyways, opening morning of deer season tomorrow. got things to do. like i said, if you want to listen to idiots like this fool, be my guest. as for me, ill go ahead and hunt with my 22 centerfires. they do what there supposed to, no questions.

ive said all i have to say here, and im sure ive made my point very clear. if you anti-223 knottheads want to come back out of the woodwork and preach how inhumane a 223 is for deer, be my guest. ive got better things to do.


when i get my deer and cape it out, ill post pictures of the damage that the 223 does.

[HEMI]

Good thing an IQ test isn't required for a deer tag, you would starve.

You would be surprised what us Canadians can own for guns.

Better get off to bed your mom is waking you up early!!

[Slayfire]

The why use a .223 question has been asked many times in this topic. I would like to try and answer that. I hunt with a 8mm mauser, great gun i love it. I have killed many whitetails with it but i have one problem with it: it tends to ventilate the deer and not do significant damage to them. every time i have shot a deer with it it has thankfully been straight through the heart, but the entrance and exit wound are the same size, almost no mushrooming. The problem? There is just to much lead in 30 cals and up for whitetail hunting. i have killed many deer with a 25-06 ( realise this has more lead and more powder than a .223 but it is a great example) it blows a massive hole through their cheast cavety, its amazing. I dont know about yall but when i hit a deer i want a big hole, lots of energy transfer into the deer, massive exit wound, if there is one at all. So the reason to use the .223 is this: it will simply do more damage to a deer. I do realize that it sounds wrong, but its true. On Whitetail, fragmintation of the bullet is a good thing! Thats what gives you the knock down power. Think about it this way: if you have the little 530 ft/lb of the 357 mag, and every bit of it is left in the deer, or most of it. Then logically it is going to do more damage than if only 100 ft/lb is left in the deer. This is why we use hollow points, soft points, and the like, instead of fmj. So that the energy of the bullet will stay in the deer, not go into the tree on the other side of him. I would by no means recomend the .223 for anything larger than mulleys or whitetail, but its penetration is perfect for them.

Thanks for listening,

Happy Deer slaying!

[Morgan]

One heck of a thread.
I've seen deer run off after 3 slugs for aways if you mean well(you arn't out here to try to shoot at it on the run and play ranbo you are a very good shot with it and you need the meat) and its all you had then I would use the 223. But since you already have a 3006 I would never pick a 223 for deer hunting if given the choice.

[testhop]

how much is this 64 gr going to open up i belive those bullets over 55 gr was desiged
for paper use a larger cal

[Hey Dave]

.223 too small? some of the best hunting is done with a .22 rimfire or .22 centerfire. Why is that? It is easier to hold the spotlight and the rifle at the same time with the smaller calibers.

wha ha ha ha! now that is funny!

[wunhunglo]

Maybe, just maybe, you should look to how other countries regulate deer hunting.

In my country I can use a 22 centrefire for certain species of deer but the ammunition used must meet certain criteria.

Namely: For roe deer, where the bullet must weigh at least 50 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000 foot pounds may be used.

For all deer of any other species - the bullet must weigh at least 100 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds.

It must be stressed that all these figures are the minimum legal requirement.
For all deer stalking the bullet must be of a type designed to expand/deform on impact.
To ensure safe and humane shooting, stalkers must practise and maintain their skill with the rifle and must check at regular intervals that their rifle is still zeroed correctly - i.e. that the bullet is striking a selected point of aim at a chosen range.

Sounds more like common sense doesn't it?

Under the right conditions .22 centrefire can be humanely used to take deer, The onus is on the Hunter to do it right.


BTW.. I was brought up on the old fashioned way of deer hunting, called stalking; getting as close as possible to your quarry for effective shot placement. I cannot understand the mindset of those folks who boast of a 200 yard plus shot? Only under exceptional circumstances would I contemplate take a shot at a deer at over 100 yards; never had to do it in the past & hopefully will never need to do it in the future.

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Hey Dave

.223 too small? some of the best hunting is done with a .22 rimfire or .22 centerfire. Why is that? It is easier to hold the spotlight and the rifle at the same time with the smaller calibers. wha ha ha ha! now that is funny!

It's much easier to have a Marine type searchlight mounted to the top of your vehicle and operated from within. Make it muuch more comfortable on a cold winter's night!

[texnmidwest]

Quote:       Originally Posted by wunhunglo

Maybe, just maybe, you should look to how other countries regulate deer hunting. In my country I can use a 22 centrefire for certain species of deer but the ammunition used must meet certain criteria. Namely: For roe deer, where the bullet must weigh at least 50 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000 foot pounds may be used. For all deer of any other species - the bullet must weigh at least 100 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds. It must be stressed that all these figures are the minimum legal requirement. For all deer stalking the bullet must be of a type designed to expand/deform on impact. To ensure safe and humane shooting, stalkers must practise and maintain their skill with the rifle and must check at regular intervals that their rifle is still zeroed correctly - i.e. that the bullet is striking a selected point of aim at a chosen range. Sounds more like common sense doesn't it? Under the right conditions .22 centrefire can be humanely used to take deer, The onus is on the Hunter to do it right. BTW.. I was brought up on the old fashioned way of deer hunting, called stalking; getting as close as possible to your quarry for effective shot placement. I cannot understand the mindset of those folks who boast of a 200 yard plus shot? Only under exceptional circumstances would I contemplate take a shot at a deer at over 100 yards; never had to do it in the past & hopefully will never need to do it in the future.

Great Post wun! I agree with the main goal of getting close enough to get powder burns on my quarry's fur as the best way!

I have taken quite a few deer with a 220 swift. It will do the job. But I use a 30=30 now. I don't worry about 200+ yard shots either. I get close or I don't shoot.

[philinmedford]

Quote:       Originally Posted by madcratebuilder

Is it legal to hunt deer with a .223 in your state? You may want to check to game laws or you may in up with your equipment confiscated, jail and fine. I know in OR, WA and ID it is illegal to use a .223 for deer.

Who told you .223 was illegal to use for deer in OR? You might want to check again. Either read your booklet or even just google it on the internet. I know plenty of guys than harvest deer with the .223 here.

Here's the law, please know what it is

Oregon Law

[imarangemaster]

As we speak, I have venison in the freezer that was killed with an AR in South Central Missouri by a friend on my sister's 115 acres. Field dressed out at about 150 lbs. If I recall, he was using something like 68 grain hand loads. In 1988, I dropped a 175-200 pound deer with a 30 carbine at 75 yards with a 110 grain JHP WW factory round. Dropped eader than Hogan's goat in 35 yards with a through and through heart lung shot. Exit hole about 3". It is all about using a weapon WITHIN its capabilities.

[gdcpony]

I won't enter into the argument of whether the .223 is enough gun for whitetail. I bowhunt and have seen them run with a 2" hole in their heart. I've shot them with slugs and had them run. My daughter lost her deer this year after a perfect shot with a .410 that went all the way through at 25yds. So I doubt you'll ever not hear of horror stories regardless of weapon. I have seen them dropped with a .22LR and that doesn't mean that's a great weapon for them.
What does get me is the excuse that recoil is why you want to use it. I've broken 45 bones, including both shoulder blades and collar bones. Recoil does hurt me, as does shooting a bow. Yet I still practice with what I use, and use what I know gives me the best chance of putting the animal down. For a rifle it is a .257Roberts 100gr Gamekings at 3050fps out of a 98 Mauser, shotgun is a 7/8oz Lightfield slug out of a H&R Ultraslugger, and a bow (the most painful) is a 310gr arrow @ 275fps out of Darton Maverick. All work -well the 257 has yet to prove itself except on yotes- and I practice with them enough to know where they hit.
I could use my .223, but why when there are better options. If you have a better gun for the job use it.
Just my .02

[imarangemaster]

I agree with you totally! While I have several 223s (AR and AK), and still have the carbine, I would use my 30-30 with Hornady "Leverution" spitzers in MO or a 12 GA slug in IL. When I used the carbine, it was all that I had handy. The guy who killed the deer in my freezer just loves 223.