[bkucek]

Power...
Of course you can cleanly kill a deer with a .223. Although I've never done it, the correspondence in these threads shows that it can be/has been done, and not just as a fluke. The right bullet is essential. As is shot placement. A 50gr. Hornady SX or Barnes Varmint Grenade would not be good. But the ammo/bullet companies don't recommend those for deer, either! Neither do they recommend a 220gr. .30 caliber out of a 30-06 for whitetail! A 150-165gr hunting (not match) bullet is the right choice. Remember, the .223 was originally designed for 4 legged varmints in the 2 to 30 lb. range ( prairie dogs to coyotes). .30 caliber was designed for animals in the 100 to 500 lb. range ( deer, humans, mule deer, elk).

[GotCoffee]

This is for all you guys that use 223 or other 22 centerfires. Yes they do work, most times very well. My first rifle was a 22-250 when I was 12. Dad thought it would be a good gun for beginners. We did a lot(year round) a shooting(grew up on 7500 acre ranch) prairie dogs coyotes etc. Never had a problem with it until I was about 17, one little twig got in the way of bullet,under 100 yds, hit deer but took that evening and most of nest day to locate and finish him. This was the last year I used 22 caliber for deer, moved up to 30-06. It will happen to YOU just a matter of time, listen to the other guys on here when they say 223 not big enough. I bet you wouldnt tell us about all the deer you wound and couldnt find just the ones you got, and the guy shooting clear across the canyon bet you wound way more than you tag doing stupid stuff like that! JUST MY OPINION!!!

[robertsherrer54]

I too own an AR and have considered hunting with it since Georgia has approved the use of .22 cal centerfire rifles, but I probably won't/
My objective is to kill a deer here with a service rifle before I get too old and decrepit to to hunt. I will be using my SA M1A this fall.
I have seen deer shot with many calibers, and have seen one run off wounded even from a .444 Marlin. Now that's a BADD gun.
I have lost a couple in my lifetime and it was simply from a not well placed shot, but still i firmly believe that the .223 is a little too small for deer sized game. If Georgia would legalize it for small game hunting I would love to try some head shots on squirrels.
I believe I will limit the rest of my hunting (with a service rifle) to using one of my .30 cals whether it be M1A, M1 Garand or one of my 03's. In my opinion, it's the right thing to do.

[Dark1]

I am going to keep this short Just 2 things to say
#1 223 is not suitable or l eagle in most places for med game hunting i know here in the Ne there is a law saying nothing smaller then .243
#2 if you want to hunt with an Ar i would say use either the 6.8SPc witch is a proven game round has killed many hogs and dear in 1 shot it uses the same bullet as the proven .277 a bull elk has even bin doped with a single 6.8 at 377mtrs out in CO here is a link to a sight with a bunch of stuff killed hunting with the success . Or you can use 7.62x39 but the 7.62 has feeding problems and bad range Or the 6.5G

[samuel]

I always love this thread where most opinions on either side are not stated as opinions,but laws chiseled in stone and not to be forsaken.I think I have already stated my opinion that some people should not be allowed to shoot at anything that is alive with what is considered the best for specified game out there.The weapon of choice of professional hunters culling elk herds (which I don't believe in)for 1 shot 1 kill is an AR15.I believe they are viable for whitetail and smaller game when used with proper dicipline the same as any other gun used in NA.They are debatable when it comes to hogs,but so are all others from .22lr on up.This is an opinion based on personal experiences too numerous to list. sam.

[Sprout47]

Well, considering a deer is roughly the same size as a man I think that a 5.56mm is suited for taking one down. If your a good shot and hit the heart lung area you can use just about any gun for that task (short of a .22 lr). As for "taking a deer down swiftly" very rarely have I seen a deer drop as soon as it is shot, and that is by rounds bigger than a 5.56. Hell, I have seen a deer hit by a car try to run away on broken legs before dying. I think the only time I have seen a deer die instantly was on the gunnery range when some wiseass hit one with a 120mm sabot round from an Abrams, that deer kind of just disappeared in a mist of blood (gross but a remarkable thing to see). So in the end, use whatever your comfortable with. Which btw, what are the econ laws in your area regarding calibers for taking deer? I know we have restrictions around here but I use my ak for that (works well).

[Cherrier]

I shoot AR-15s on a regular basis. I own several, and use others at work. I was thinking that since I am so familiar with the rifle that I might take one hunting.

So I built one with a 20" 7.62x39 barrel. Should work well at short/medium ranges with hunting bullets.

Save the .223/5.56 for the coyotes. Build a 6.5, 6.8, or 7.62 for the deer.

[Shaun]

Try the 6x45mm its a 223 case with a 6mm bullet you can get 95gr bullets at 2400fps plenty to kill a deer I took a nice buck with a sing shot to the heart years ago. the only thing you would need for the gun is a second upper and barrel the bolt and magazines are the same.

[Dark1]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shaun

Try the 6x45mm its a 223 case with a 6mm bullet you can get 95gr bullets at 2400fps plenty to kill a deer I took a nice buck with a sing shot to the heart years ago. the only thing you would need for the gun is a second upper and barrel the bolt and magazines are the same.

Y settle with a 90 gr going 2400 when the 6.8 has a 110 prohunter that goes 2500-2700fps and 90s that go over 3kfps

[Shaun]

I never said to settle its just a good caliber that many people forget about.

[Morgan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by jmp8927

I believe that if a caliber is good enough to shoot at humans, it's more than good enough to shoot at animals.

You can shoot a .22 at humans or even a BB gun if you'd like. I feel that the .223 is alot like the .30 Carbine in the eyes of people some say its fine others say not. It's all in wair you put the bullet. If my daughter wished to go rifle hunting I'd be ok letting her use one if that's all we had but I'd be sure to correct her to make sure that she was within her limits. But if had a choice in what to carry into combat I'd go with a 30 cal. That being said I'd take the 3006 hunting for any North American Game most people wouldn't. Bottom line be responsible know your caliber's limit as well as yours. Would I take a AR hunting no I would not, do I think everyone should be allowed to walk around through the woods shooting at Deer with an AR no. Do I believe that people that know the limits will act like an respectable person and make sure that the shot counts should be allowed to use it yes. I am a hunter but I always make sure to do my part to take an animals life quickly and painlessly as possible. BOTTOM LINE KNOW YOUR LIMITS, if you don't you make us all look bad, don't give people a reason to hate hunters, guns, and everything that it stands for. Thats one thing I do not stand for as far as I'm concerend your just as bad as the anti hunters your just giving them fuel.

[Shaun]

any caliber if the round will put something down. but the real question is the kill going to be clean? Is the animal going to suffer? I prefer putting the animal down quick that way they don;t suffer and the kill is clean verse the guy who wounds then animal and chases it for hours only to never find it and have it end up as coyote bait

[Capn Jack]

It seems to me this thread has been 60-30-10%. Experiance, Emotion and Idiocy (there's always a few) We have the experiancd hunters, the "EEEK don't hurt it with a Black Rifle" Group and the "Noise makers". The discussion should be kept to whether the .223 (as a cartridge) is suitable for hunting big game. Not whether the AR should be used for hunting.There was a big stink in Alaska a while back about someone killing a bunch of caribou (and leaving them to rot) with an AR using .223 FMJ. Now they want to ban, not only FMJ's, but .223's when the real problem is "Wastage". As for not using a .223, like one fellow said, "They're dead aren't they".

To me the "AR" is a System that does what I want it to do, from paper punching to prairie dogs and deer. I own an AR15 with 2 uppers, .223, 7.62x39 and a .22 rimfire adaptor. If I ever decide to take up bear hunting, I'll buy a .458 SoCom upper. For now I'll hunt deer with my Russian 30-30 (7.62x39)

My point is...The AR Platform can be adapted to suit the aplication.

[armydoc7]

heres the deal gentlemen. i didnt see anyone else bring up these points so i will bring them up. no matter what caliber bullet you use and no matter what load is behind it you can take down a whiter tail deer with one shot. all you have to do is the following

1. KNOW HOW TO SHOOT. thats not a smart remark, get out there with your weapon or whatever one you plan to use and shoot with it. shoot it on a windy day, shoot it on a humid day. shoot it on a cold and a hot day. and shoot it multiple times. you will see how weather and conditions reflect in your accuracy

2. KNOW YOUR WEAPON/DISTANCE. this is an expansion of the first point, do everything in the above section at different distances with the same rifle you plan to use. most of the hunters i know do EVERYTHING at 100 yards. the truth is that a bullet is little more than an arrow. it falls when the shot is farther away and in some cases seems to rise at shorter ones either because of shooting technique or terrain or what-have-you.

3. KNOW YOUR AMMO. dont scope a rifle in with the last few bullets you had left over from last season and the go to walmart and buy whatever is on sale. use the same ammo from a good manufacturer. you dont have to buy $100 a box bullets. winchesters or remingtons or federals or just about any major brands will have a consistency to them. they have QA stations in every factory where they are made. this will mean that the bullet fires the same way every time meaning it goes where you point it every time.

4. USE GOOD SHOOTING HABITS anyone can lookup the proper way to breath during a long range shot and everyone can find a bipod that will fit their rifle for that added bit of stability. you can always find a way to mouNT something to rest a bipod on that will easily mount to your deerstand somehow. be creative.

5. DONT SPOOK THE TARGET be quiet chanber your round when you get situated and dontmove too much. when you surprise an animal adrenaline starts pumping and you will have a harder time killing the animal i dont care what it is.

using these tips you can get consistency in youR shot every time. couple this with knowing the anatomy of your target and you will kill it with one shot i dont care what round you use as long as you are within the effective range of that rifle cartridge.

TRUE STORY: i was hunting last year and shot a deer from 100 yeards with a 30-30 using remington core-lokt ammo. i love that ammo for close shots because its fat, heavy and guaranteed to doble in size upon penetration. i spooked the deer right before i shot it. i waited for him to run into the crosshairs. the shot hit his shouldler bone perfectly right at the bottom of the heart. it actually struck the bone and rolled the deer over. he got up and kept running for 60-70 yards. when i got him home and examined the entrance wound it was about 2" in diameter with the exit being about 3-4". heres the kicker, the bullet hit both of his ventricles (bottom of the heart) and turned them into jello. he ran 60-70 yards with his heart turned to mush because of adrenaline. i know it sounds funny to the inexperienced but any hunter whos been out there a while will have a similar story

BOTTOM LINE: go buy several boxes of the ammo you plan to use and make a day out of shooting your rifle. get to know it. scope it in to shoot fleas off a dogs back and i dont care what caliber it is, if you dont spook the deer, you will drop him with the first shot because you hit what youre aiming at. always go for the heart, backbone or head. works every time

greg

[lefty o]

this thread is still alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? ?????????

[armydoc7]

i was looking up ar15 info the other day and found it. i thought i would throw in some info i know for sure to be true so it mighthelp somebody else who googles the same thing

[popplecop]

Have had some experence shooting deer with .22 calibers. Years ago while shooting deer out of an apple orchard that were doing damage i shot a number of deer with a .225 Winchester with 55 gr. handloads. All were one shot kills, all were standing deer. About 20 years ago I shot one with a .223, this was during regular season after I retired. Doe was standing broadside at about 60 yds. Placed shot behind front shoulders, deer did a 180 and dropped. Load was a Win. 62 gr. factory load, lungs were jelly. This my personal experence. It is not what I hunt deer with now as I use SS rifles mostly in 30-30 38-55 or 45-70.

[ACfixer]

I just don't understand using a .223 for deer when one has a .30-06 available. The .30-06 is probably the finest whitetail deer cartridge available while the .223 is marginal at best. If it's all you have, well that's a different story but to whine about recoil in a .30-06? C'mon, man up. It's not like you're at the range sending 200 shots downrange here, we're talking about a few shells to get it sighted in then hopefully no more than a shot or two to drop the prey. Recoil pads are only a few bucks anyway.

Consider this too, public perception of our pastime. I know and you know that a rifle is a rifle, but when Mr. or Mrs. Treehugger sees you packing an AR-15 into the bush, well let's just say that to the non-shooter it looks a little bit psycho. I'm not debating one's right to hunt deer with an AR-15, just that to the non-hunting public you look a little more sane with your Rem 700.

Just my 2 cents.

[armydoc7]

i agree with the 30-06 thing, hell i love a .308 it decimates things. its all in your cup of tea. as far as the tree huggers, i dont care about them. my reason for loving the AR-15 is that ive been deployed a couple of tmes and ive grown unimaginably comfortable with the .223 cartridge. ive seen it in all types of weather and at different distances and i know the ways different accessories effect it. overall im just comfortable with it and since it not only serves the purpose of deer hunting as well as other purposes. plus its one of those "fun guns". ones you can buy new accessories for all the time.

this is for the tree huggers

[ACfixer]

Quote:       Originally Posted by armydoc7

as far as the tree huggers, i dont care about them. this is for the tree huggers

Nor do I... my point is only that if you have a .30-06 (or a .308) available, why would one hunt deer with a .223? As far as treehuggers go, well they vote too... that's the problem. I just think when it's possible to cast a better light on our pastime it's important to do so. As far as I am concerned you should be able to hunt deer with an M-60 if you so choose.