300 Remington Ultra Magnum

[samuel]

I stated at extended ranges.And yes,at 500yds the STW would have about the same capabilitys as the 7mm rem. would at 400yds. using the same bullet.You are comparing cartridges I can use the same bullet in but one is faster than the other.What Midas and I were talking about was a different diameter bullet.The smaller diameter bullet will maintain more fps and energy at long range.There is no doubt that the .338cal,s at shorter ranges is more potent.But at 400yds and beyond the smaller diameter will be the one with the higher fps and energy.A .600 nitro is big at the muzzle but due to the large diameter isnt good for long range.Using 40gr bullets in both the .204 and .22-250 the .204 leaves the muzzle at 3900fps and the .22-250 at 4000fps.But at 400yds the .204 is 2234fps and the .22-250 is 1740fps.But using same cal.,one a few hundred fps faster as you stated,the faster one will kill game at much longer range. sam.

[Midas]

Originally Posted by samuel

I stated at extended ranges.And yes,at 500yds the STW would have about the same capabilitys as the 7mm rem. would at 400yds. using the same bullet.You are comparing cartridges I can use the same bullet in but one is faster than the other.What Midas and I were talking about was a different diameter bullet.The smaller diameter bullet will maintain more fps and energy at long range.There is no doubt that the .338cal,s at shorter ranges is more potent.But at 400yds and beyond the smaller diameter will be the one with the higher fps and energy.A .600 nitro is big at the muzzle but due to the large diameter isnt good for long range.Using 40gr bullets in both the .204 and .22-250 the .204 leaves the muzzle at 3900fps and the .22-250 at 4000fps.But at 400yds the .204 is 2234fps and the .22-250 is 1740fps.But using same cal.,one a few hundred fps faster as you stated,the faster one will kill game at much longer range. sam.

Agreed, and like you said, a 600 Nitro may hit like a truck within 200 yards, but at the longer ranges (300-500 yards) the smaller faster cartridge is clearly superior for killing game animals.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Midas

Well, if paper ballstics are indicative of a cartridge's effectiveness, then we should do away with the .375 H&H, and .416 Rigby, because they have been outdone in the energy dept. by many cartridges since their introduction. I have seen many deer killed, and their is absolutely no difference in killing power between a .30 cal with 3000 ft lbs, and a 30 cal with 4000 ft lbs. Paper ballistics are just that......paper ballistics, they bare very little merit in a hunting scenario, they are good for argueing on hunting forums though

You are either intentionally ignoring what I said about range or dont care as long as you can make it seem you are smarter.The .338 and .375 are both very potent but so is a rock the size of your head compared to a palm size rock.Throw both with the same energy and see which goes the furthest.At shorter ranges the .338 is potent.At longer ranges it is outperformed by the .30cal.Unless you have found a way to change physics this will always be the case. sam.

[Midas]

Originally Posted by samuel

You are either intentionally ignoring what I said about range or dont care as long as you can make it seem you are smarter.The .338 and .375 are both very potent but so is a rock the size of your head compared to a palm size rock.Throw both with the same energy and see which goes the furthest.At shorter ranges the .338 is potent.At longer ranges it is outperformed by the .30cal.Unless you have found a way to change physics this will always be the case. sam.

No need to turn this into some kind of attack, the .338 or .375 is just as effective at extended ranges, as a .30 cal, I think that has been proven time & time again, that is why the medium bore magnums such as the .338 and .375 magnums, are far more versatile then people give them credit for. They CAN give you a 300 or 400 yard shot, and will get the job done just as well as a smaller cartridge, they are not "short range" cartridges at all, and to call them such is inaccurate, and insulting to their versatility. Energy, while having some merit in killing power, should not be taken as gospel, velocity can be tested and shown as truth, while energy is simply theoretical.

[samuel]

The variance I see there is bigger bullets,less velocity,less energy make them less frangible.Kenetic energy is only a variable when the bullet maintains its original form and releases little energy in the kill zone.If the bullet expands it releases energy and does damage.If you lower the fps and ke you also sessen the expansion potential of a bullet and the ability to release energy in the wound channel,say nothing to perhaps a thicker jacket on the thicker bullet.At decent hunting ranges (out to 400yds) both guns are sufficent for deer in N.A. and antelope in Africa.But what I was talking about was due to atmospheric resistance on a larger mass the smaller mass bullet could be a better choice if you know the shot is giong to be long range.(Whhich to me would be 300yds and beyond.)The further a bullet flies,the slower it goes and the less power it has for expansion. I wasnt attacking you,I just thought you might be avoiding the longrange part.I have used .30-.338-and .375 on elk,moose,and bear and made shots out to 3or400yds.This was seldom and I would prefer 150yds or under.On goats and sheep at extended range I prefer a hot .257-.264 in 120 to140gr range.They seem to do better than any big boomer but the big ones would do fine if they hit. sam.

[Midas]

Originally Posted by samuel

The variance I see there is bigger bullets,less velocity,less energy make them less frangible.Kenetic energy is only a variable when the bullet maintains its original form and releases little energy in the kill zone.If the bullet expands it releases energy and does damage.If you lower the fps and ke you also sessen the expansion potential of a bullet and the ability to release energy in the wound channel,say nothing to perhaps a thicker jacket on the thicker bullet.At decent hunting ranges (out to 400yds) both guns are sufficent for deer in N.A. and antelope in Africa.But what I was talking about was due to atmospheric resistance on a larger mass the smaller mass bullet could be a better choice if you know the shot is giong to be long range.(Whhich to me would be 300yds and beyond.)The further a bullet flies,the slower it goes and the less power it has for expansion. I wasnt attacking you,I just thought you might be avoiding the longrange part.I have used .30-.338-and .375 on elk,moose,and bear and made shots out to 3or400yds.This was seldom and I would prefer 150yds or under.On goats and sheep at extended range I prefer a hot .257-.264 in 120 to140gr range.They seem to do better than any big boomer but the big ones would do fine if they hit. sam.

Ok, now that sounds good to me

[Lng Rng]

I won't try and deny the killing power of any of the popular 30 caliber magnums, but all I think the 300 RUM does over a 300 Win Mag is give you a flatter trajectory. A 7mm RUM and 338 WM have roughly the same energy at the muzzle, but if you were going after a Kodiak bear, which would you rather have on you if you were hunting them? I am willing to bet the 338 would penetrate and bust bones and muscle better than the smaller, lighter bullet.

[samuel]

At 4540ft-lbs with a 250gr bullet in a .338RUM and 3617ft-lbs with with a 160gr bullet in a 7mm-RUM the ft-lbs arent even close.Even at 400yds the .338 has a few hundred lbs advantage.The .300rum is in the middle at the muzzle but beats the .338 at 400yds.Altho the 7mm RUM might be considered marginal for larger big game at intermediate ranges the .338 tops it at longer ranges and the .300 Rum tops both.With all three what should be considered is bullet design and bullet placement.If you are going for a double lung shot in the ribs the bullet should be fairly rapid in expansion.If you are going for the shoulder as some do on bear rapid expansion will lead to bullet failure.In my experience this is even more true on moose and large elk.An example I can think of was a pronghorn I shot with a .375H&H at 175 yds just behind the shoulders.It ran about 300yds and was still breathing when we got there.A 7mm or .30cal with a thinner jacket would have virtually dropped it in it,s tracks.At about the same time period I shot a (this is aproximate)600lb bear at about the same distance with the same load through the shoulders and virtually dropped it in it,s tracks.If possible the bullet should match the range and bullet placement should match the design of the bullet.Also the fps-energy should match bullet design.I prefer a double lung shot with a bullet that will expand in that area.If I went for heavy bone I would go for a heavy bullet that doesnt expand so easily.I will not argue the shoulder shot vs the lung shot except to say in my experience the lung shot usually seemed to stop game faster.I try to consider bullet placement,fps-energy,and use a bullet-power ratio designed for the situation and would rather have a little to spare but as I stated with the antelope,too much of a good thing can and usually brings inconsistency the same as too rapid an expansion will lead to bullet failure.There are some really good bullets out there.But no bullet works in all circumstances,as no one cartridge does. sam.

[Lng Rng]

I'll agree with that. Bullet size and construction are very important factors. All I was saying was, when you shoot at larger game, it's not always a good idea to go to a really fast lighter bullet, opposed to a heavier one traveling a little slower.

[BattleRifleG3]

I'm on the same page that the only advantage of a 300 RUM over a 300 Win Mag is trajectory. I personally use my 300 RUM for the same things I'd use a 30-06 for, just at longer range.

[G-gear]

Originally Posted by BattleRifleG3

Sweeet idea for 338 Ultra. Hope it works out. And 300 RUM it will be for me, as soon as the ships come in.

Using a Model 700 in 338 RUM, I found a reloader's hunting load that worked in producing 4-shot sub MOA:
Nosler 210 Partition
Retumbo 102 grains
Federal 215 Magnum Match primers
Remington brass (new, but deburred in and outside of case mouth)
COL 3.625"

In elk, deer, and grizzly country (Sunlight Basin, Wyoming) I shot a buck at 210 yards (range finder). It destroyed his lungs and blew his heart in half, then penetrated his offside shoulder. He didn't know what hit him. Didn't see any elk or bears that day.
"G-gear"
cgegere@tctwest.net

[toolman]

Welcome to G&G G-gear!

[commnorth]

Hello all again. I own a M 70 in a 300 H&H and I'm very happy with it. I'm told it's the most effecient of all the 300's out there. A true classic. Brass is a little hard to get, but Midway has a good selection available at resonable prices. On another note; my cousin is a fanatic handloader, and he owns a 7 mag in a Sendero, and I S--- you not, he can make 1.75" groups @ 300 METERS; my jaw hits the floor every time he does it. I can't even come close to that with his rifle. I'm over weight ( 272 @ 6' ) and I swear my heart makes my barrel move ever so slighty every time it beats. It is enough to make good groups @ that distance an impossibilty for me. Fun shooting all.

[magnumruberg]

Originally Posted by samuel

I stated at long range the .300RUM would outperform the .338.-A 180gr Nosler partition maintains 2454fps and 2407ft-lbs and sighted in at +2.4" at 100yds is -12.7 at 400yds.A .338RUM at 400yds using a 250gr Swift A-frame has 2057fps-2347ft-lbs and sighted in at +1.7" at 100yds is -22.1" at 400yds.That seems superior to me both in trajectory and power. sam.

I guess you can quote an internet site even though if you actually shoot using these ballistics 50% of the time they are wrong one point and fact, barrel length and rate of twist. they go by a standard gun and there only to that gun, with a longer barrel your going to shot higher and harder off the bat. and a shorter barrel wont get the speed or accuracy the same.

[craiger40]

Originally Posted by samuel

You are either intentionally ignoring what I said about range or dont care as long as you can make it seem you are smarter.The .338 and .375 are both very potent but so is a rock the size of your head compared to a palm size rock.Throw both with the same energy and see which goes the furthest.At shorter ranges the .338 is potent.At longer ranges it is outperformed by the .30cal.Unless you have found a way to change physics this will always be the case. sam.

Hey guys don't really want to jump into someones feud but for matters of facts.
it has nothing to do with diameter simply velocity and Ballistic Coefficient.
example if 2 different calibers are loaded to the same velocity the higher B.C. will travel further and have less wind drift

u.s. military uses 308 out to 800-1000 meters 338 out to 1500 meters 50 cal out 2500 meters (just a comparison)

Also look at the bullet manufactures web sites such as nosler their partition and accubond are meant for elk hunting and at more then 3200 fps are "unreliable" and also at less than 1800 fps.
I actually have a 338ultra mag and shooting 225gr accubonds at 3200 fps with 93 gr rl-22 i have more power than a 375 h&h and more range and power than any 30 cal hunting bullet i know of

[samuel]

Originally Posted by craiger40

Hey guys don't really want to jump into someones feud but for matters of facts.
it has nothing to do with diameter simply velocity and Ballistic Coefficient.
example if 2 different calibers are loaded to the same velocity the higher B.C. will travel further and have less wind drift

u.s. military uses 308 out to 800-1000 meters 338 out to 1500 meters 50 cal out 2500 meters (just a comparison)

Also look at the bullet manufactures web sites such as nosler their partition and accubond are meant for elk hunting and at more then 3200 fps are "unreliable" and also at less than 1800 fps.
I actually have a 338ultra mag and shooting 225gr accubonds at 3200 fps with 93 gr rl-22 i have more power than a 375 h&h and more range and power than any 30 cal hunting bullet i know of

Welcome.Good points,well stated. sam.

[300rummer]

My son and i got a couple of 300rums three years ago. We love how they shoot. mine is a Remington 700 LSS in lefthand wich was a bit tricky to get. had to order it off the net from Texas. My sons is a black synthetic model 700 I got local for $450 new. We put 3 X 9s x 40 on them( i'd opt for more glass than that). Mine shoots about .750 MOA with scerocco 150grn. My sons will shoot at .5 moa out of the box, same amo. I'm not exagerating. I shoot prone when possible. At the range the recoil is a bit much on the bench but when hunting its nothing. I've taken two big wyoming mulies one at 247yrds and one at 78yrds both standing broadside. both right behind the shoulder. The farther shot had most of the oppisite lung hanging out of exit wound witch was about half dollar sized after hitting ribbs in and on the way out. the short shot made a small hole in and out and it dropped in its tracks. LOVE THEM. I LIKE HOW THERE ARE SO MANY LESS DEMENTIONS TO FIT UP IN THE CHAMBER, WITHOUT THE BELTED CASE. ALL THE BELT DOES IS GIVE YOU A STRESS RISER. Any one who doesn't like um doesn't have one.