Varmint rifle suggestions

totallyairborne · 01-08-2007, 07:16 AM

Hey,

I am looking for a good quality varmint rifle that is capable of accurate shots of 75 to 300 yards though preferably a fair bit more. This will be almost exclusively for target shooting and to deal with fox, hare and rabbit though possibly the odd deer as a one off scenario. Due to English firearms laws it must be bolt action and below a .243 in caliber - as I do not intentionally go out to hunt deer getting a FAC for .243 or above will be difficult tending to impossible. Before anyone starts flaming I am fully aware that .222, .223 rifles and similar calibers are not ideal for deer but this is not the primary purpose of the rifle... Due to availabilty and price of rounds .223 is preferable but not crucial.

I was thinking of a Remington 700 or possibly a possibly a similar Tikka or Savage, but wanted to expand my horizons a little and ask what people know and like for similar price ranges. It would be helpful if the rifle suggested is fairly widely available though.

I prefer composite stocks and nonreflective barrel surfaces (though a strip of gaffa tape can deal with shiny stainless if necessary. I like to shoot using a bipod but again this is not crucial. The ability to fit a sound moderator is crucial however. A heavy target barrel is optional but preferable. Look forward to reading your comments. Cheers guys and girls!

okami515 · 01-08-2007, 05:00 PM

Have you looked at a .204 ruger? About the same vel. as a 220 swift in a much smaller round. thay are very accurate and flat shooting and if the main purpose is varmits well I have had alot of fun with mine shooting wood chucks and coyotes with mine as well as turkey hunting in the fall.

Lng Rng · 01-08-2007, 06:31 PM

If you want the ability to possibly kill a deer, try a 22-250, or a .223 wssm. I wouldn't want to try to kill a deer with anything under a .243, but if I had to, those are the ones I would chose. As far as a rifle goes, find what fits you, because most rilfe manufactuers offer heavy barreled versions of varmint rounds. And equally important would be to find good glass for it. Another thought- what about a .240 Weatherby?

carolinacont · 01-08-2007, 07:19 PM

I bought a cheap NEF handi rifle in the 204 ruger to ride in my farm truck for ground hogs and wild dogs. I have always been of the same openion on no deer smaller than 243. However I have killed 5 deer this year with the 204. All over 200 yards. all shot in the head or neck, all droped with out so much as a kick. The 204 is a vry distructive round. With a ballastic tip bullet.

Zen900 · 01-08-2007, 07:56 PM

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

I have the .223 and .270. The .223 Stevens probably will never be beat as an out of the box rifle as far as accuracy at a reasonable price. This purchase was a total surprise. The model 200 is the best value on the market for long distance rifles. Comes in .223, 22-250. .243 and others.

BPierce · 01-08-2007, 08:43 PM

Those of us in the US have a hard time understanding your firearms laws but I don't guess ours are all that much clearer. For instance any sort of sound supression is a "no no"

.
In my state of Minnesota, a .223 is not legal for deer. However many communities have trouble with too many deer and hire "professional hunters" to thin them out. The .223 is about all these professionals use and it is legal for them. Now there are a lot of folks who don't like the idea of these "professional hunters" for one reason or another, so the last thing they want is injured deer crawling up on peoples lawns. From that I have to conclude that a .223 with a proper bullet and a good shot makes for a dead deer.

BattleRifleG3 · 01-09-2007, 07:08 AM

Something to understand with England vs the US and deer hunting is that I have read that the deer accross the pond are a bit smaller and that a 223 is a highly accepted and respected round for hunting them.

The size of the deer in my state of Pennsylvania warrant something a bit larger for a consistent clean kill, but in the Old World and with adequate practice a 223 should be fine.

samuel · 01-09-2007, 07:39 AM

The problem I see with any .22cal. is factory bolt action barrels come in 1in12 or 1in14 twist and it is hard to stabilise anything over 55gr bullets.Thats probably why the pro,s prefer .223,s.AR types can be found easily with a fast twist that will stabilise up to 90gr bullets.You can get a .22-250 with a 1in8 twist but I dont think in production rifles.I would appreciate any information on this.Most bullets 55gr and under are varmint class and that means not too good on penetration for larger animals. samuel.

Lng Rng · 01-09-2007, 06:22 PM

I think winchester makes a 64 grain power point for a 22-250, which would probably be the choice factory bullet for deer hunting.

bigandrich44 · 01-09-2007, 06:37 PM

Put a round in the head with any bullet, even the mere .22 LR, and it will kill it stone dead, I assure you.

BattleRifleG3 · 01-10-2007, 08:59 AM

A 22-250 with a heavy bullet in a tight twist could make a big difference in its usefulness. A full length short action firing the heaviest variety of 0.224 gr bullet might change my mind about the effectiveness of the round.

totallyairborne · 01-11-2007, 05:34 AM

In the UK it is relatively easy to get a sound moderator simply by saying that it is to prevent you from going deaf or offending neighbours. If they don't let you have one and you do lose some hearing ability then you might sue the people responsable for not allowing you to have the sound moderator. To be honest I would be more worried about the availability of fully or even just semi automatic assault (style) rifles than bolt action rifles with silencers but that is a conversation for another day. Cheers for the replies I will keep my eyes open for some of your suggestions.

jerry · 01-11-2007, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen900

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm
I have the .223 and .270. The .223 Stevens probably will never be beat as an out of the box rifle as far as accuracy at a reasonable price. This purchase was a total surprise. The model 200 is the best value on the market for long distance rifles. Comes in .223, 22-250. .243 and others.

I love my 200 in 223. It is 1:9 twist as well. Will use the heavier projectiles fine.

BattleRifleG3 · 01-11-2007, 10:35 AM

If silencers are easy to get and use, then a round that makes the most of them would be one with a flat trajectory but not excessive speed. The way to get this is to have a long, thin bullet. A gun shot's noise comes from two sources - the muzzle blast and the supersonic crack. A silencer will only take reduce the muzzle blast, so to reduce noise due to supersonic crack you want the bullet to move more slowly. But you would normally want a fast bullet to have a flat trajectory. So the best compromise (which is basically your best judgement call) is to find a cartridge and bullet with a high "ballistic coefficient". The popularity of 223 rifles has made a wide selection of bullets available, and a good choice would probably be either a 223 Remington or 22-250. The main issue would be finding something with adequately tight rifling twist rate to stabilize the heaviest 0.224" bullets.

totallyairborne · 01-14-2007, 10:39 AM

Cool,

Any insights into the pros/cons of .223 vs .22-250? I don't need the rifle to be all but silent, just prefferably quiet enough so that it doesnt alarm the neighbours that live in the same village. The .223 WSSM did look pretty interesting though...

Spurzmaker · 01-14-2007, 11:10 AM

None of the rounds are quiet. a 22 short, or 22 long rifle ammo will be the best for short range is the quietest.

Shooting a 223 wsm, 223 military, or a 22-250 near houses and not disturbing the neighbors, now that would be like trying to eat potato chips at church during prayer.

The last time I shot a jackrabbit with a 22-250, I almost had two pieces to pick up. The 223 is the cheapest to shoot if you're not picky about dirty ammo such as wolf ammo. There are other manufacturers that sell ammo that shoots clean for a few bucks more.

The 243 is a nice deer and varmit round. I first started out long range varmiting with a Ruger 243 bolt action, and had good luck at 250 yard shots, 300 was I should say lobbing them out there with hopes of hitting something.

Here are some ballistics with Muzzle energy, and fps to look at.

Cartridge (Wb + type) MV (fps) V @ 200 yds ME (ft lb) E @ 200 yds
.204 Ruger (33 BTSP) 4225 3025 1308 671
.22 Hornet (45 Sp) 2690 1502 723 225
.222 Rem. (50 Sp) 3140 2123 1094 500
.223 Rem. (45 SpHP) 3550 2430 1259 590
.223 Rem. (55 Sp) 3240 2304 1282 648
.22-250 Rem. (55 Sp) 3680 2656 1654 861
.220 Swift (55 SpBT) 3800 2990 1765 1090
.223 WSSM (55 SpBT) 3850 3064 1810 1147
.243 Win. (80 Sp) 3350 2593 1993 1194
.243 Win. (100 Sp) 2960 2449 1945 1332

01-08-2007, 07:16 AM	#1
totallyairborne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3	Varmint rifle suggestions Hey, I am looking for a good quality varmint rifle that is capable of accurate shots of 75 to 300 yards though preferably a fair bit more. This will be almost exclusively for target shooting and to deal with fox, hare and rabbit though possibly the odd deer as a one off scenario. Due to English firearms laws it must be bolt action and below a .243 in caliber - as I do not intentionally go out to hunt deer getting a FAC for .243 or above will be difficult tending to impossible. Before anyone starts flaming I am fully aware that .222, .223 rifles and similar calibers are not ideal for deer but this is not the primary purpose of the rifle... Due to availabilty and price of rounds .223 is preferable but not crucial. I was thinking of a Remington 700 or possibly a possibly a similar Tikka or Savage, but wanted to expand my horizons a little and ask what people know and like for similar price ranges. It would be helpful if the rifle suggested is fairly widely available though. I prefer composite stocks and nonreflective barrel surfaces (though a strip of gaffa tape can deal with shiny stainless if necessary. I like to shoot using a bipod but again this is not crucial. The ability to fit a sound moderator is crucial however. A heavy target barrel is optional but preferable. Look forward to reading your comments. Cheers guys and girls!

01-08-2007, 07:56 PM	#5
Zen900 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 700	http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm I have the .223 and .270. The .223 Stevens probably will never be beat as an out of the box rifle as far as accuracy at a reasonable price. This purchase was a total surprise. The model 200 is the best value on the market for long distance rifles. Comes in .223, 22-250. .243 and others. Last edited by Zen900; 01-08-2007 at 08:01 PM.

01-08-2007, 08:43 PM	#6
BPierce Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Minnesota (Becker County) Posts: 148	223 for deer Those of us in the US have a hard time understanding your firearms laws but I don't guess ours are all that much clearer. For instance any sort of sound supression is a "no no". In my state of Minnesota, a .223 is not legal for deer. However many communities have trouble with too many deer and hire "professional hunters" to thin them out. The .223 is about all these professionals use and it is legal for them. Now there are a lot of folks who don't like the idea of these "professional hunters" for one reason or another, so the last thing they want is injured deer crawling up on peoples lawns. From that I have to conclude that a .223 with a proper bullet and a good shot makes for a dead deer. Last edited by BPierce; 01-08-2007 at 08:45 PM. Reason: fix space

01-09-2007, 07:08 AM	#7
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Something to understand with England vs the US and deer hunting is that I have read that the deer accross the pond are a bit smaller and that a 223 is a highly accepted and respected round for hunting them. The size of the deer in my state of Pennsylvania warrant something a bit larger for a consistent clean kill, but in the Old World and with adequate practice a 223 should be fine. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-10-2007, 08:59 AM	#11
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	A 22-250 with a heavy bullet in a tight twist could make a big difference in its usefulness. A full length short action firing the heaviest variety of 0.224 gr bullet might change my mind about the effectiveness of the round. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-08-2007, 05:00 PM	#2
okami515 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 171	Have you looked at a .204 ruger? About the same vel. as a 220 swift in a much smaller round. thay are very accurate and flat shooting and if the main purpose is varmits well I have had alot of fun with mine shooting wood chucks and coyotes with mine as well as turkey hunting in the fall.

01-08-2007, 06:31 PM	#3
Lng Rng Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 944	If you want the ability to possibly kill a deer, try a 22-250, or a .223 wssm. I wouldn't want to try to kill a deer with anything under a .243, but if I had to, those are the ones I would chose. As far as a rifle goes, find what fits you, because most rilfe manufactuers offer heavy barreled versions of varmint rounds. And equally important would be to find good glass for it. Another thought- what about a .240 Weatherby?

01-08-2007, 07:19 PM	#4
carolinacont Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2	I bought a cheap NEF handi rifle in the 204 ruger to ride in my farm truck for ground hogs and wild dogs. I have always been of the same openion on no deer smaller than 243. However I have killed 5 deer this year with the 204. All over 200 yards. all shot in the head or neck, all droped with out so much as a kick. The 204 is a vry distructive round. With a ballastic tip bullet.

01-09-2007, 07:39 AM	#8
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	The problem I see with any .22cal. is factory bolt action barrels come in 1in12 or 1in14 twist and it is hard to stabilise anything over 55gr bullets.Thats probably why the pro,s prefer .223,s.AR types can be found easily with a fast twist that will stabilise up to 90gr bullets.You can get a .22-250 with a 1in8 twist but I dont think in production rifles.I would appreciate any information on this.Most bullets 55gr and under are varmint class and that means not too good on penetration for larger animals. samuel.

01-09-2007, 06:22 PM	#9
Lng Rng Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 944	I think winchester makes a 64 grain power point for a 22-250, which would probably be the choice factory bullet for deer hunting.

01-09-2007, 06:37 PM	#10
bigandrich44 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,013	Put a round in the head with any bullet, even the mere .22 LR, and it will kill it stone dead, I assure you.

01-11-2007, 05:34 AM	#12
totallyairborne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3	In the UK it is relatively easy to get a sound moderator simply by saying that it is to prevent you from going deaf or offending neighbours. If they don't let you have one and you do lose some hearing ability then you might sue the people responsable for not allowing you to have the sound moderator. To be honest I would be more worried about the availability of fully or even just semi automatic assault (style) rifles than bolt action rifles with silencers but that is a conversation for another day. Cheers for the replies I will keep my eyes open for some of your suggestions.

01-11-2007, 10:35 AM	#14
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	If silencers are easy to get and use, then a round that makes the most of them would be one with a flat trajectory but not excessive speed. The way to get this is to have a long, thin bullet. A gun shot's noise comes from two sources - the muzzle blast and the supersonic crack. A silencer will only take reduce the muzzle blast, so to reduce noise due to supersonic crack you want the bullet to move more slowly. But you would normally want a fast bullet to have a flat trajectory. So the best compromise (which is basically your best judgement call) is to find a cartridge and bullet with a high "ballistic coefficient". The popularity of 223 rifles has made a wide selection of bullets available, and a good choice would probably be either a 223 Remington or 22-250. The main issue would be finding something with adequately tight rifling twist rate to stabilize the heaviest 0.224" bullets. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-14-2007, 10:39 AM	#15
totallyairborne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3	Cool, Any insights into the pros/cons of .223 vs .22-250? I don't need the rifle to be all but silent, just prefferably quiet enough so that it doesnt alarm the neighbours that live in the same village. The .223 WSSM did look pretty interesting though...

01-14-2007, 11:10 AM	#16
Spurzmaker Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Luis Valley Colorado Posts: 313 Images: 2	None of the rounds are quiet. a 22 short, or 22 long rifle ammo will be the best for short range is the quietest. Shooting a 223 wsm, 223 military, or a 22-250 near houses and not disturbing the neighbors, now that would be like trying to eat potato chips at church during prayer. The last time I shot a jackrabbit with a 22-250, I almost had two pieces to pick up. The 223 is the cheapest to shoot if you're not picky about dirty ammo such as wolf ammo. There are other manufacturers that sell ammo that shoots clean for a few bucks more. The 243 is a nice deer and varmit round. I first started out long range varmiting with a Ruger 243 bolt action, and had good luck at 250 yard shots, 300 was I should say lobbing them out there with hopes of hitting something. Here are some ballistics with Muzzle energy, and fps to look at. Cartridge (Wb + type) MV (fps) V @ 200 yds ME (ft lb) E @ 200 yds .204 Ruger (33 BTSP) 4225 3025 1308 671 .22 Hornet (45 Sp) 2690 1502 723 225 .222 Rem. (50 Sp) 3140 2123 1094 500 .223 Rem. (45 SpHP) 3550 2430 1259 590 .223 Rem. (55 Sp) 3240 2304 1282 648 .22-250 Rem. (55 Sp) 3680 2656 1654 861 .220 Swift (55 SpBT) 3800 2990 1765 1090 .223 WSSM (55 SpBT) 3850 3064 1810 1147 .243 Win. (80 Sp) 3350 2593 1993 1194 .243 Win. (100 Sp) 2960 2449 1945 1332