35 Whelen

[Flfiremedic]

Went crazy on Gunbroker.com a couple of months ago...the one I really wanted just came in. Remy 700 CDL 35 Whelen. Love the looks and feel. Will be a month or so till I get it scoped-Zeiss Conquest 3x9, and will wring it out then. Any advice or 35 Whelen stories out there? Best all around factory load for it?

[rfc357]

I had a .35 Whelan Ackley built a few years ago. I have never fired a round of factory ammunition. I handload Hornady 200s and 250s. Both are accurate enough. No experience on game.

[SwedeSteve]

Beautiful caiber! Great choice!

[dyeager535]

You aren't going to like my answer, but I'll post anyways.

After getting intimate with a 700 in .35 Whelen, I have to conclude it was about the worst thought out firearm I've dealt with.

The action is designed around the .300 RUM, so the Whelen wallows around in the magazine. That may or may not be a problem, but it's a ton of wasted space IMO. Over 1/2 inch if memory serves. Don't believe any other manufacturer out there has a round as long as the .300 RUM, so that probably means it's the longest (of the common ones) action out there.

Second, according to my local gunsmith (who could be wrong, I freely admit to not checking this) Remington barrels use a twist that is better suited to 200gr bullets. That puts a .35 caliber projectile on VERY poor ballistic footing for accuracy, and most .35 Whelens show this, the consensus seems to be 2" at 100yds is acceptable. It may be ok for what you do, just not close compared to other rounds in the same guns.

Last, the throat on the rifle I have (and it's a pristine gun, nowhere near heavily shot) is so far removed from reality its not funny. Even with 250 grain pointed bullets it is physically impossible to seat the bullet anywhere near the lands. The bullet is forced to rattle it's way into the rifling, and there is no way around that. It's not even close. I'm talking about having almost NO bullet left in the case and it's just touching the rifling.

Overall I think a VERY poorly planned/put together gun. A barrel change alone I think would solve most of my problems with it.

[Flfiremedic]

So you are saying Remington designed a necked up 30/06 round around a 300 RUM? Interesting.

[sbowers5]

Flfiremedic i have a 35 whelen that i built years ago on a 98 mauser action with a douglas barrel, timney trigger and a beautiful walnut stock and i love it, it shoots very good and it has stoped everything i have ever shot with it, most drt, it is a very good hunting caliber. just my opinion.
steve

[Flfiremedic]

I think I'll find the 35s DRT factor very comforting in the years to come.

[ArkansasHunter]

sbowers THANKS for your post feller !!! Though I dont own any 35 caliber rifles I love them and they are the best big game takers there are in my book.
And the 35's are flat shooting.
I've got a Mauser 1909 action waiting to become a 35 Whelen or 358 win. Someday !
I bought a new Ruger Hawkeye in 308 and I wanted the 358 win. but ammo is hard to find and expensive.
Your Blessed ...A.H

[dyeager535]

Originally Posted by Flfiremedic

So you are saying Remington designed a necked up 30/06 round around a 300 RUM? Interesting.

No what I'm saying is that usually you end up with "short" and "long" actions in factory rifles...shorts fit something like a 300WSM, while a long will fit something like a 30-06. Those are just examples, I don't know where the factories decide the length.

Problem is, with only two action lengths, if you go on the "long" side (say 30-06/35 whelen) anything still longer has to be accomodated on the same action. So since the 700 is chambered up to the 300 RUM, which is a long cartridge, the magazine is overly large for anything shorter. When talking a cartridge as long as the 300RUM, the difference in the magazine vs cartridge length is substantial IMO.

For instance, 30-06/35 Whelen case length is roughly 2.5", while the 300RUM is 2.85". Depending on cartridge OAL used to "fit" the 300RUM in the rifle design, you are talking potentially 1/4" or more of unused magazine space fore/aft. From my observations, it seems like a LOT more than that with a .35 in the magazine.

I don't really know if that's an issue, but it would seem to be a bad idea for more fore/aft cartridge movement (and bolt travel) than necessary when talking about controlling rounds as they feed.

That has nothing to do with how the barrel is setup though, and for accuracy potential, that is the problem.

[Flfiremedic]

Guys I've talked to are getting less than 1.5 at 200. Granted I haven't scoped mine or fired it yet, so will know more for certain in a month or two.

[dyeager535]

Based on what I've read, I'd consider 1.5"@200 very good, assuming thats from a Remington 700.

Of course, who knows what's been changed by Remington between what you've got and what I've got, even though they are the same basic rifle.

Lots of variables here, I'll err towards the positive! Be sure to post back up when you get it to the range. Going to reload for it?

[Flfiremedic]

I will eventually reload for it I'm sure...thats gonna be a new hobby for me this year. Which 700 do you have btw?

[dyeager535]

It's actually not mine, it's my dads. I decided with the price of ammunition, and his lack of attention to his hunting rifle, I'd work some loads up for it and "encourage" him to get out and shoot it, see what we could come up with for accuracy. Our hunting has really changed, longer shots are becoming more and more the norm, so personally I think accuracy is pretty darn important.

Anyways, I'm not at home right now, or I'd take a peek at the gun to say for sure. I know it's blued with a wood stock, it's certainly not one of the high end 700's. I suspect someone can say what that is based on the description, I think all the others are either stainless, laminated or synthetic stock, etc. It was my uncles rifle, when he died my dad ended up with it. I noticed the boxes of ammo that came with it were 200 and 250 grain, I knew switching bullet weight wasn't the way to accuracy, other than to see which the rifle liked better.

Have you dropped a round in the magazine yet? Got a rough measurement of the "free" space? Based on the cartridge dimensions, the 1/4-1/2" of excess space I come up with by quick calculation seems a bit smaller than reality.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by dyeager535

You aren't going to like my answer, but I'll post anyways.

After getting intimate with a 700 in .35 Whelen, I have to conclude it was about the worst thought out firearm I've dealt with.

The action is designed around the .300 RUM, so the Whelen wallows around in the magazine. That may or may not be a problem, but it's a ton of wasted space IMO. Over 1/2 inch if memory serves. Don't believe any other manufacturer out there has a round as long as the .300 RUM, so that probably means it's the longest (of the common ones) action out there.

Second, according to my local gunsmith (who could be wrong, I freely admit to not checking this) Remington barrels use a twist that is better suited to 200gr bullets. That puts a .35 caliber projectile on VERY poor ballistic footing for accuracy, and most .35 Whelens show this, the consensus seems to be 2" at 100yds is acceptable. It may be ok for what you do, just not close compared to other rounds in the same guns.

Last, the throat on the rifle I have (and it's a pristine gun, nowhere near heavily shot) is so far removed from reality its not funny. Even with 250 grain pointed bullets it is physically impossible to seat the bullet anywhere near the lands. The bullet is forced to rattle it's way into the rifling, and there is no way around that. It's not even close. I'm talking about having almost NO bullet left in the case and it's just touching the rifling.

Overall I think a VERY poorly planned/put together gun. A barrel change alone I think would solve most of my problems with it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and wisdom on the subject. No one wants to rain on someones parade, but it's good to learn by our mistakes and share that with others before they make the same mistake. This is one of the attributes of forums......the sharing of ideas and knowledge.

[ArkansasHunter]

Can yall imagine what a 180 grain bullet would do shot out of a 35 Whelen ?

[dyeager535]

Come out of the barrel sideways? lol

Seriously though, would it be much different than a 30-06 in terms of velocity? It would certainly have a poorer ballistic coefficient. The BC on Speers website is .245 for the 180 grainer. 220 is .286. 250 is .446. 250gr BC isn't bad, but at least in my rifle, even that one doesn't let you play around with OAL much. (30-06 180 gr is right around .304BC BTW, given a roughly similar bullet shape as the .35)

BC isn't going to matter much if you are talking 1-200yds I suppose, but the rifling is certainly going to prefer one of the (at least) four bullet weights out there.

A ballistic tip-style flat base 250 might give just a tiny bit more of needed OAL for the rifle I'm working with, but highly unlikely to be produced.

Just talking out loud here.

[sbowers5]

AH the 1909 is a good action , but i think i would prefer a 98 for the 35 thats what i built mine on and there nothing that needs to be done but put the barrel on and head space it and do what ever cosmetic work you would like and start shooting it, and by the way a 180 gr properly loaded is awsome form my test on big wild hogs. Just my opinion.
steve

[ArkansasHunter]

sbowers5 the 1909 is the most desirable 98 action you can custom build a rifle on buddy.

About the 35 Whelen lets not for get were talk'in a 35 caliber bullet here, big bullets are awsome on game animals and the 35's seem to be one of those magic bullets.

I became interested in the 35 trying to research the big bore 375 win. which isn't a 35 caliber bullet.
The 375win. knocks White Tail Deer to the ground grave yard dead, more so than my 30-06 rifle.
The shots I take where I hunt though is within (guess) 80 yards and closer.
Anyway after extensive reading on the net about the 358win. and 35 Whelen I want one of both, more so the 358 win. than the 35 Whelen.
A person that reloads will have do well to check these to calibers out...A.H

[sbowers5]

AH i didn't mean to give the impression that the 1909 was not an excellent action for custom rifles its that i just prefer the GEW 98 and thats just my preference and if i'm not mistaken the reason most like the 1909 is because of the floor plate however both are more than exceptable. JUst my opinion.
steve
by the way how do you like my avatar

[ArkansasHunter]

Wow did you harvest those monster bucks ? It is an excellent avatar LOL.
Did you take those Bucks in Oaklahoma ?...A.H