Your opinion on the Ultra and Super Short Mag's

killer · 03-10-2008, 10:08 AM

I'm 53 years old. When computers started to design the new Ultra and Super Short Mags I thought, "Man those things are going to be screamers."

Seems like guys that got them have problems and the old stand by belted mags still rule the roost.

In you opinion what happened to the high tech computer designs that seemed to never take off, or do you feel they have been a success?

Ron AKA · 03-10-2008, 10:55 AM

I think there are a lot of extra cartridges on the market than what is really needed. Probably more marketing driven than performance or need.

Ron

EHCRain10 · 03-10-2008, 01:13 PM

seems to me that the old standard cartridges get the job done just fine

samuel · 03-10-2008, 01:49 PM

Either one 'gets the job done",its just that the shortys get it done more efficiently,with more accuracy when using factory ammo. sam.

dyeager535 · 03-10-2008, 01:53 PM

I think you've got muliple reasons.

Some are answers to problems that didn't exist. Many are quite expensive to shoot. Sheer volume of rounds out there makes few new ones likely to steal the market enough to make it viable for the manufacturers long term. Some people are entrenched in their beliefs and won't consider what other rounds can do.

When you really look at the rounds, many of the short action mags simply allowed the gun to be shortened 1/2", but performance is equivalent to standard length non-magnum rounds.

Belted mags are holdovers from a bygone era. Not that they don't work, heck the 45-70 still works, but as far as I know, benchrest shooters don't use belted mags. The belts are completely pointless anymore, and along with their other disadvantages, take up magazine space.

AKHunter · 03-10-2008, 02:03 PM

All good reasons guys. Another is to stimulate the industires. Something new means more income, more debate, more interest etc. Why stop being inovative even when it becomes redundant or unnecessary. That would'nt be much fun.

Lng Rng · 03-10-2008, 02:32 PM

If you own a short mag or ultra mag, and it works for you, that is great. Some people really hated Winchesters marketing for the short-mag line-up, and in turn hate short mags.

I own a 7WSM, and like it. Yeah, it doens't handle a 175gr bullet as good as a 7mm Rem Mag, but if I want to shoot a 180gr bullet, I will probably use my 300. It can be nice to reload with out a belt, and it burns less powder.

The 7mm Rem mag is a great round. Keep in mind, the short mags were never intended to replace the long action belted mags, they are merely an alternative.

Magnumsrule · 03-10-2008, 04:24 PM

I agree, the wsm and saum rounds all have a place in the industry. Some people dislike long actions and such. Also the new rounds do conserve powder and are listed to be slightly better than the standard longs.

Midas · 03-10-2008, 04:40 PM

I don't shoot one, never will. If someone likes them, and has success, then more power to em.

lefty o · 03-10-2008, 07:26 PM

the WSM's are great.

thebigitch62 · 03-10-2008, 07:41 PM

i have 2 .300 RUM's. I think it is an outstanding cartridge. if remington hadn't come out with it i'd probably be shooting a .300 weatherby or .300 winmag. but the RUM has just a liitle more performance. I also shoot a ruger .204 which is about equal to a 22-250. so I like the new stuff but older calibers get it done too.

utahvarminter · 03-10-2008, 09:11 PM

Why I don't want Super Shorts: Lower Capacity, increased Throat Erosion. I'd rather buy a .338 Lapua and be done with it.

MOD 70 · 03-11-2008, 12:13 AM

I don`t buy in to any of the reasons for a short action(short stroking a long action,faster cycling etc). I you think you want more power than a standard cartridge, why go half way? For me it`s full length or not at all.

dyeager535 · 03-11-2008, 08:12 AM

Short action can result in an easier to carry weapon. Shorter OAL, or longer barrel in the same OAL of the weapon. Not to mention, if you shorten the action say 1/2", you've got less weight to carry. Significant when you are talking 25% reductions in weight, say for 8lb rifles down to 6lbs as an example. Not saying you lose two pounds because of that, not the case, but it's a factor.

Efficiency is claimed, not sure how much more. Probably not much in my opinion.

samuel · 03-11-2008, 08:29 AM

We sure keep the gun mfg,s guessing,dont we. sam.

vikingpreacher · 03-11-2008, 08:43 AM

I think the problem is why would you wan't to buy a new cartridge that you don't know will survive when you could buy a cartridge that is similair ballisticly and proven to sell. Plus I could see these WSSM cartridges having major feeding problems.

Magnumsrule · 03-11-2008, 09:15 PM

I think the wsm's at lest are around to stay as many people are picking htme up. I have yet to see more than one or two boxes of wssm ammo and have yet to see a gun so i kinda doubt they will catch on just because of lack in supply.

Deersniper · 03-12-2008, 12:12 AM

I used to have a 7mm WSM and it shot good, but at 1.50 a round, and sharp recoil, I traded it for a AR + 200.00. Then I got a .308 and at .40 a round, I found it to be a better Short mag. The WSM's are prone to throat erosion at those high pressures. Ultra mags have too much recoil.

HAWKEYE50 · 03-12-2008, 05:07 PM

I liked the accuracy of the 300RUM, it was just a little pricy to shoot. At $40.00 a box of 20, A few hours at the range would run over a $100.00. It was a darn accurate round in my heavy barreled remington though.

at4rxj · 03-12-2008, 06:24 PM

I own a .243wssm and love it. I didn't buy it so that I could squeeze a little more out of the 6mm caliber than the .243win has to offer... I got it because it fits in the AR-15 platform I was building it on. These have their place. Many ppl now are looking for shorter, lighter guns for hunting on the move. They also offer the benefit of a shorter cycle time (in a bolt action) for follow up shots.

These have their place, but they're not intended to replace the old cartridges

03-10-2008, 10:08 AM	#1
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 905 Images: 6	Your opinion on the Ultra and Super Short Mag's I'm 53 years old. When computers started to design the new Ultra and Super Short Mags I thought, "Man those things are going to be screamers." Seems like guys that got them have problems and the old stand by belted mags still rule the roost. In you opinion what happened to the high tech computer designs that seemed to never take off, or do you feel they have been a success? __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

03-10-2008, 04:24 PM	#8
Magnumsrule Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Northern Alberta, Canada Posts: 591 Blog Entries: 2	I agree, the wsm and saum rounds all have a place in the industry. Some people dislike long actions and such. Also the new rounds do conserve powder and are listed to be slightly better than the standard longs. __________________ Cartridge Group Like to discuss cartridges? Join HERE!

03-10-2008, 04:40 PM	#9
Midas Troll B' Gone Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springdale, Arkansas Posts: 3,784 Images: 2 Blog Entries: 6	I don't shoot one, never will. If someone likes them, and has success, then more power to em. __________________ "Recoil lasts for a second, gravity lasts forever"

03-10-2008, 09:11 PM	#12
utahvarminter Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 487	Why I don't want Super Shorts: Lower Capacity, increased Throat Erosion. I'd rather buy a .338 Lapua and be done with it. __________________ My Photo Album

03-11-2008, 12:13 AM	#13
MOD 70 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern B.C. Posts: 162	I don`t buy in to any of the reasons for a short action(short stroking a long action,faster cycling etc). I you think you want more power than a standard cartridge, why go half way? For me it`s full length or not at all. __________________ If God didn`t intend for man to eat animals he wouldn`t have made them out of meat

03-10-2008, 10:55 AM	#2
Ron AKA Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 704	I think there are a lot of extra cartridges on the market than what is really needed. Probably more marketing driven than performance or need. Ron

03-10-2008, 01:13 PM	#3
EHCRain10 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dinwiddie, VA Posts: 117	seems to me that the old standard cartridges get the job done just fine

03-10-2008, 01:49 PM	#4
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	Either one 'gets the job done",its just that the shortys get it done more efficiently,with more accuracy when using factory ammo. sam.

03-10-2008, 01:53 PM	#5
dyeager535 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 52	I think you've got muliple reasons. Some are answers to problems that didn't exist. Many are quite expensive to shoot. Sheer volume of rounds out there makes few new ones likely to steal the market enough to make it viable for the manufacturers long term. Some people are entrenched in their beliefs and won't consider what other rounds can do. When you really look at the rounds, many of the short action mags simply allowed the gun to be shortened 1/2", but performance is equivalent to standard length non-magnum rounds. Belted mags are holdovers from a bygone era. Not that they don't work, heck the 45-70 still works, but as far as I know, benchrest shooters don't use belted mags. The belts are completely pointless anymore, and along with their other disadvantages, take up magazine space.

03-10-2008, 02:03 PM	#6
AKHunter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 899	All good reasons guys. Another is to stimulate the industires. Something new means more income, more debate, more interest etc. Why stop being inovative even when it becomes redundant or unnecessary. That would'nt be much fun.

03-10-2008, 02:32 PM	#7
Lng Rng Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 944	If you own a short mag or ultra mag, and it works for you, that is great. Some people really hated Winchesters marketing for the short-mag line-up, and in turn hate short mags. I own a 7WSM, and like it. Yeah, it doens't handle a 175gr bullet as good as a 7mm Rem Mag, but if I want to shoot a 180gr bullet, I will probably use my 300. It can be nice to reload with out a belt, and it burns less powder. The 7mm Rem mag is a great round. Keep in mind, the short mags were never intended to replace the long action belted mags, they are merely an alternative.

03-10-2008, 07:26 PM	#10
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,783	the WSM's are great.

03-10-2008, 07:41 PM	#11
thebigitch62 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Port Orchard Wa Posts: 106	i have 2 .300 RUM's. I think it is an outstanding cartridge. if remington hadn't come out with it i'd probably be shooting a .300 weatherby or .300 winmag. but the RUM has just a liitle more performance. I also shoot a ruger .204 which is about equal to a 22-250. so I like the new stuff but older calibers get it done too.

03-11-2008, 08:12 AM	#14
dyeager535 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 52	Short action can result in an easier to carry weapon. Shorter OAL, or longer barrel in the same OAL of the weapon. Not to mention, if you shorten the action say 1/2", you've got less weight to carry. Significant when you are talking 25% reductions in weight, say for 8lb rifles down to 6lbs as an example. Not saying you lose two pounds because of that, not the case, but it's a factor. Efficiency is claimed, not sure how much more. Probably not much in my opinion.

03-11-2008, 08:29 AM	#15
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	We sure keep the gun mfg,s guessing,dont we. sam.

03-11-2008, 08:43 AM	#16
vikingpreacher Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Iowa Posts: 269	I think the problem is why would you wan't to buy a new cartridge that you don't know will survive when you could buy a cartridge that is similair ballisticly and proven to sell. Plus I could see these WSSM cartridges having major feeding problems. __________________ Join the cartridge comparisons group! http://gunandgame.com/forums/group.php?groupid=3

03-11-2008, 09:15 PM	#17
Magnumsrule Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Northern Alberta, Canada Posts: 591 Blog Entries: 2	I think the wsm's at lest are around to stay as many people are picking htme up. I have yet to see more than one or two boxes of wssm ammo and have yet to see a gun so i kinda doubt they will catch on just because of lack in supply. __________________ Cartridge Group Like to discuss cartridges? Join HERE!

03-12-2008, 12:12 AM	#18
Deersniper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,652	I used to have a 7mm WSM and it shot good, but at 1.50 a round, and sharp recoil, I traded it for a AR + 200.00. Then I got a .308 and at .40 a round, I found it to be a better Short mag. The WSM's are prone to throat erosion at those high pressures. Ultra mags have too much recoil.

03-12-2008, 05:07 PM	#19
HAWKEYE50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: HOLLY MI Posts: 166 Blog Entries: 20	I liked the accuracy of the 300RUM, it was just a little pricy to shoot. At $40.00 a box of 20, A few hours at the range would run over a $100.00. It was a darn accurate round in my heavy barreled remington though. __________________ "KEEPIN MY POWDER DRY"

03-12-2008, 06:24 PM	#20
at4rxj Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 851 Images: 10	I own a .243wssm and love it. I didn't buy it so that I could squeeze a little more out of the 6mm caliber than the .243win has to offer... I got it because it fits in the AR-15 platform I was building it on. These have their place. Many ppl now are looking for shorter, lighter guns for hunting on the move. They also offer the benefit of a shorter cycle time (in a bolt action) for follow up shots. These have their place, but they're not intended to replace the old cartridges