Keep losing my Zero

calaper · 03-14-2008, 07:25 AM

Hi guys,

Just wondering if you can help me. I recenlty bought a Savage .22. It is a great gun for the price and i have found it to be quite accurate. I have a Nikko Stirling 1.5 - 6X variable scope with medium priced mounts(not sure of brand).

While shooting at the range, i will find that the rifle will suddenly shoot off target and i will need to zero it in again. This has happened many times and kind of frustrating. What is the possible cause?

- Cheap mounts, scope, technique or what?

I'm tending to think its the scope but not sure....ideas would be great.

Cheers

Silent Shooter · 03-14-2008, 07:37 AM

If everything it tight, then try lightly "tapping" the scope with a small plastic tipped hammer. I cannot explain it, but it helps to "settle" the scope. When I was in the Army, I was having a very similar problem. I thought the Sergeant Major was crazy when he approached me (and my scope) with the idea and a hammer. It really worked. Never had the problem again and I was exceptionally rough on my weapon.

If that doesn't work, try a new scope.

samuel · 03-14-2008, 07:43 AM

If the rings are slipping in the grooves in the housing or tne scope is slipping in the rings, that will cause it to loose its center.It could be the scope,but doesnt sound like it.Mark where it is setting and shoot and see if it moves.Also,check the screws to see if they are tight.They should be tightened firmly but not white knuckle tight. sam.

turner · 03-14-2008, 08:00 AM

One question I would ask is if the groups continue to be good after the shift of zero, or if the groups open up and need to be re-adjusted to POA and then shrink. I'd venture that if the group remain small throughout, it's more than likely a mount/ring issue. If they open AND shift, I'd attribute that, more than likely to the scope. I've never owned a Nikko Stirling scope and see that power range seems to have both 1" and 30mm tubes. A simarly priced scope I do have a good deal of experience with is the Nikon Prostaff 2-7 (they also have a 3-9 version), if you need another scope. Excellent quality to price in my book. Good luck.

rfc357 · 03-14-2008, 08:27 AM

Make sure everything is tight. If so, the scope is the first place to look. The tap technique is a good thing to try.

If you have another scope, swap it in and see if the problem goes away. You can put your Nikko scope on another rifle and see if the problem follows the scope.

calaper · 03-15-2008, 02:57 AM

Thanks guys, turner i'm out next weekend to my property to have a big shoot. I'll definitely look at what you said. Also i'll try tapping the scope with a plastic hammer or something. Thanks alot guys.

It's great having a forum where everyone can discusss this sort of stuff. Keep up the good work, thanks again guys!

ArkansasHunter · 03-15-2008, 03:05 AM

It could be the scope but as you've been told tightening all the screws on the mounths probably will cure the problem if not buy a nice Bushnell 3X9 40mm from WalMart and live happy ever after...A.H

Farmer · 03-15-2008, 06:45 AM

Calaper,
Change your mounts, i've learnt from experience that cheap mounts cost you money, if all is tight and the poa moves suddenly, try new mounts (good ones) not cheapies first, if it still moves its your scope.

irish murphy · 03-15-2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

It could be the scope but as you've been told tightening all the screws on the mounths probably will cure the problem if not buy a nice Bushnell 3X9 40mm from WalMart and live happy ever after...A.H

We dont have walmart AH.Pity though.I would say if your mounts are tight its definately your scope.I have a nikko scope or two and the older ones arent bad.The newer ones arent that flash.Also this is the same ammo that is doing this right?Not different types of ammo?Plus is the scope new or has it been on some other rifle that could have been a heavy hitter?

calaper · 03-15-2008, 08:35 AM

Thanks for reminding our nice friends in the U.S that we aren't fortunate enough to have walmart and also that our gun laws suck.

The problem has been occuring using the same ammunition, federal champion in .22. I have found that it is great when it has kept it's zero. The scope is new along with the rifle. I'm out at the gun shop tomorrow where i got it from, i might see what they think, they are having a show on....who knows, might be some good mounts going for cheap.

The mounts i'm using now are all nice and firm, not over tight but definitely not loose. Next week will be a big shoot for me, i might take some spare mounts and see if that works. Otherwise, it's back to shooting the 44/40 with the old favourite iron sights!

Cheers everyone.

Lachie

Deersniper · 03-15-2008, 08:48 PM

Try the Simmons 22 mag scope for about 40.00. Worked perfect on my CZ 452.

Ron AKA · 03-16-2008, 10:43 AM

It probably is the scope mounts or the scope itself. Savage supplies most of these guns with factory Weaver style bases. One review I have seen said the base width was smaller than Weaver specifications. The width from point to point should be 0.830". This article reports the bases at 0.811", and that not all rings will adjust down enough to fit the undersize base.

Savage Mark II-BV Accu-Trigger .22 Rifle

Others have reported more recently that bases supplied now are on spec. However that is the first thing I would check. The bases are cheap to replace -- $3 or so each.

Another common problem especially when using two piece bases is that the rings are not aligned to each other, and when you clamp the rings down you distort the scope. This can be fixed by bedding the rings by lapping or with epoxy. Here are a couple of articles which explain how. On my next gun, I plan to lightly lap to make sure the scope fits to the bottom of the rings without stress, and then use the epoxy method to perfect the fit.

Scope Ring Lapping

Epoxy Method of Scope Mounting

The Shooting Sports Cheap Scope Page

If none of this works, then it must be your scope. Warranty or refund possible? Not sure of availability in Australia, but the Rimfire Central guys sure seem to like the Mueller APV. The US guys can get it for about $115. For target shooting I think there is no substitute for power. Serious BR guys use up to 36X at 50 yards!

APV 4.5–14×40 AO (black)*&!@#%•*&!@#%Mueller Optics

Mueller Scopes, THE APV & 8X25 50MM ERATICATOR SCOPES

Ron

Long Gun · 03-16-2008, 02:24 PM

I have to wonder if all that work, lapping and epoxy, etc, is really necessary if one would consider Burris Signature Zee rings. Those inserts seem to be the ticket for me. They won't leave ring marks, secure tight, mounts the scope stress free, thus, eliminating the need to lap rings. I'd bet all that is fun and rewarding if you really know what you're doing, but for a guy like me these Zee rings are wonderful. Just thought I would throw this in if in fact Calaper needed to change rings, and like me, did not want to pursue lapping.

Ron - some times the intent of a post can be misinterpreted by the words chosen by the poster or the way he puts them together. So to be perfectly clear, please do not think I have belittled your comment. Your post demostrates you are knowledgeable and possess skills I do not have. No offense intended and wanted to make sure of that.

v/r
LG

billy · 03-16-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Gun

I have to wonder if all that work, lapping and epoxy, etc, is really necessary if one would consider Burris Signature Zee rings. Those inserts seem to be the ticket for me. They won't leave ring marks, secure tight, mounts the scope stress free, thus, eliminating the need to lap rings. I'd bet all that is fun and rewarding if you really know what you're doing, but for a guy like me these Zee rings are wonderful. Just thought I would throw this in if in fact Calaper needed to change rings, and like me, did not want to pursue lapping.

Ron - some times the intent of a post can be misinterpreted by the words chosen by the poster or the way he puts them together. So to be perfectly clear, please do not think I have belittled your comment. Your post demostrates you are knowledgeable and possess skills I do not have. No offense intended and wanted to make sure of that.

v/r
LG

burris are the best design of rings period.
when that patent runs out EVERYBODY will be using that design.
it's the only kind i use now.

Righteous · 03-16-2008, 02:41 PM

I have sold alot of HOWA's and thats cope comes standard on there combo guns, never seen or heard a problem with the scopes other the lack of of eye relife

Ron AKA · 03-16-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Gun

Ron - some times the intent of a post can be misinterpreted by the words chosen by the poster or the way he puts them together. So to be perfectly clear, please do not think I have belittled your comment. Your post demostrates you are knowledgeable and possess skills I do not have. No offense intended and wanted to make sure of that.

No offence taken at all. I think the Burris Zee rings are a great idea - and I would like to hold the patent. The techniques I have described make more sense when using inexpensive rings (or probably any other ring than the Zee). The problem as I'm sure you are aware is that especially outside of the USA they want more $$ for these Zee rings than many pay for the scope on a .22 rimfire. While I can afford it, I will go the cheap ring route and make up for it with technique. I'm essentially retired and my time is free!!

Ron

big boomer · 03-16-2008, 10:27 PM

Make sure you check the screws from mount to gun they can loosen and if need be put on better rings.

GlockMeister · 03-16-2008, 10:38 PM

Another thing to make sure is, make sure you didn't or haven't or whom ever mounted it didn't over tighten the rings on the scope. Over tightening can also cause problems. Also, make sure the rings are properly aligned. Use some loc-tite to make sure the screws can back out. Make sure if you use it, to use the stuff that CAN be removed with hand tools.

dyeager535 · 03-17-2008, 08:37 AM

Just my experience with a relatively cheap scope...went to zero for, way off from previous year. Shoot, can't move point of impact enough. Check rings, tight. Eventually ran out of adjustment...every time I shot the round was further off than the shot before.

calaper · 03-18-2008, 02:35 AM

Appreciate all the information. The scope was fitted at the store, it appeared to be loose if anything. It certainly hasn't been over tightened as i read the warning inside the box. We'll see how i go over the weekend, i'm going for a big shoot, the results will tell me how it goes.

Thanks for all the info everyone, especially Ron...cheers

03-14-2008, 07:25 AM	#1
calaper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 106	Keep losing my Zero Hi guys, Just wondering if you can help me. I recenlty bought a Savage .22. It is a great gun for the price and i have found it to be quite accurate. I have a Nikko Stirling 1.5 - 6X variable scope with medium priced mounts(not sure of brand). While shooting at the range, i will find that the rifle will suddenly shoot off target and i will need to zero it in again. This has happened many times and kind of frustrating. What is the possible cause? - Cheap mounts, scope, technique or what? I'm tending to think its the scope but not sure....ideas would be great. Cheers

03-15-2008, 02:57 AM	#6
calaper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 106	Give it a go! Thanks guys, turner i'm out next weekend to my property to have a big shoot. I'll definitely look at what you said. Also i'll try tapping the scope with a plastic hammer or something. Thanks alot guys. It's great having a forum where everyone can discusss this sort of stuff. Keep up the good work, thanks again guys!

03-15-2008, 06:45 AM	#8
Farmer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Limbri NSW Au Posts: 296	Calaper, Change your mounts, i've learnt from experience that cheap mounts cost you money, if all is tight and the poa moves suddenly, try new mounts (good ones) not cheapies first, if it still moves its your scope. __________________ Cheers, Rob

03-15-2008, 08:35 AM	#10
calaper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 106	It's new....damn! Thanks for reminding our nice friends in the U.S that we aren't fortunate enough to have walmart and also that our gun laws suck. The problem has been occuring using the same ammunition, federal champion in .22. I have found that it is great when it has kept it's zero. The scope is new along with the rifle. I'm out at the gun shop tomorrow where i got it from, i might see what they think, they are having a show on....who knows, might be some good mounts going for cheap. The mounts i'm using now are all nice and firm, not over tight but definitely not loose. Next week will be a big shoot for me, i might take some spare mounts and see if that works. Otherwise, it's back to shooting the 44/40 with the old favourite iron sights! Cheers everyone. Lachie

03-15-2008, 08:48 PM	#11
Deersniper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,691	.22 scope Try the Simmons 22 mag scope for about 40.00. Worked perfect on my CZ 452.

03-14-2008, 07:37 AM	#2
Silent Shooter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 292	If everything it tight, then try lightly "tapping" the scope with a small plastic tipped hammer. I cannot explain it, but it helps to "settle" the scope. When I was in the Army, I was having a very similar problem. I thought the Sergeant Major was crazy when he approached me (and my scope) with the idea and a hammer. It really worked. Never had the problem again and I was exceptionally rough on my weapon. If that doesn't work, try a new scope.

03-14-2008, 07:43 AM	#3
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	If the rings are slipping in the grooves in the housing or tne scope is slipping in the rings, that will cause it to loose its center.It could be the scope,but doesnt sound like it.Mark where it is setting and shoot and see if it moves.Also,check the screws to see if they are tight.They should be tightened firmly but not white knuckle tight. sam.

03-14-2008, 08:00 AM	#4
turner Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tn Posts: 623	One question I would ask is if the groups continue to be good after the shift of zero, or if the groups open up and need to be re-adjusted to POA and then shrink. I'd venture that if the group remain small throughout, it's more than likely a mount/ring issue. If they open AND shift, I'd attribute that, more than likely to the scope. I've never owned a Nikko Stirling scope and see that power range seems to have both 1" and 30mm tubes. A simarly priced scope I do have a good deal of experience with is the Nikon Prostaff 2-7 (they also have a 3-9 version), if you need another scope. Excellent quality to price in my book. Good luck.

03-14-2008, 08:27 AM	#5
rfc357 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 741	Make sure everything is tight. If so, the scope is the first place to look. The tap technique is a good thing to try. If you have another scope, swap it in and see if the problem goes away. You can put your Nikko scope on another rifle and see if the problem follows the scope.

03-15-2008, 03:05 AM	#7
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	It could be the scope but as you've been told tightening all the screws on the mounths probably will cure the problem if not buy a nice Bushnell 3X9 40mm from WalMart and live happy ever after...A.H

03-16-2008, 10:43 AM	#12
Ron AKA Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 704	It probably is the scope mounts or the scope itself. Savage supplies most of these guns with factory Weaver style bases. One review I have seen said the base width was smaller than Weaver specifications. The width from point to point should be 0.830". This article reports the bases at 0.811", and that not all rings will adjust down enough to fit the undersize base. Savage Mark II-BV Accu-Trigger .22 Rifle Others have reported more recently that bases supplied now are on spec. However that is the first thing I would check. The bases are cheap to replace -- $3 or so each. Another common problem especially when using two piece bases is that the rings are not aligned to each other, and when you clamp the rings down you distort the scope. This can be fixed by bedding the rings by lapping or with epoxy. Here are a couple of articles which explain how. On my next gun, I plan to lightly lap to make sure the scope fits to the bottom of the rings without stress, and then use the epoxy method to perfect the fit. Scope Ring Lapping Epoxy Method of Scope Mounting The Shooting Sports Cheap Scope Page If none of this works, then it must be your scope. Warranty or refund possible? Not sure of availability in Australia, but the Rimfire Central guys sure seem to like the Mueller APV. The US guys can get it for about $115. For target shooting I think there is no substitute for power. Serious BR guys use up to 36X at 50 yards! APV 4.5–14×40 AO (black)&!@#%•&!@#%Mueller Optics Mueller Scopes, THE APV & 8X25 50MM ERATICATOR SCOPES Ron

03-16-2008, 02:24 PM	#13
Long Gun Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 19	I have to wonder if all that work, lapping and epoxy, etc, is really necessary if one would consider Burris Signature Zee rings. Those inserts seem to be the ticket for me. They won't leave ring marks, secure tight, mounts the scope stress free, thus, eliminating the need to lap rings. I'd bet all that is fun and rewarding if you really know what you're doing, but for a guy like me these Zee rings are wonderful. Just thought I would throw this in if in fact Calaper needed to change rings, and like me, did not want to pursue lapping. Ron - some times the intent of a post can be misinterpreted by the words chosen by the poster or the way he puts them together. So to be perfectly clear, please do not think I have belittled your comment. Your post demostrates you are knowledgeable and possess skills I do not have. No offense intended and wanted to make sure of that. v/r LG

03-16-2008, 02:41 PM	#15
Righteous Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 214	I have sold alot of HOWA's and thats cope comes standard on there combo guns, never seen or heard a problem with the scopes other the lack of of eye relife

03-16-2008, 10:27 PM	#17
big boomer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Minn. Posts: 982	Make sure you check the screws from mount to gun they can loosen and if need be put on better rings.

03-16-2008, 10:38 PM	#18
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,504	Another thing to make sure is, make sure you didn't or haven't or whom ever mounted it didn't over tighten the rings on the scope. Over tightening can also cause problems. Also, make sure the rings are properly aligned. Use some loc-tite to make sure the screws can back out. Make sure if you use it, to use the stuff that CAN be removed with hand tools. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

03-17-2008, 08:37 AM	#19
dyeager535 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 52	Just my experience with a relatively cheap scope...went to zero for, way off from previous year. Shoot, can't move point of impact enough. Check rings, tight. Eventually ran out of adjustment...every time I shot the round was further off than the shot before.

03-18-2008, 02:35 AM	#20
calaper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 106	Appreciate all the information. The scope was fitted at the store, it appeared to be loose if anything. It certainly hasn't been over tightened as i read the warning inside the box. We'll see how i go over the weekend, i'm going for a big shoot, the results will tell me how it goes. Thanks for all the info everyone, especially Ron...cheers