222? 22-250? 204?

[win39]

If these are the calibers chosen, then I would say the 243 Win. If he wants a Rem. 700 then that's what he should buy. The 243 will cover deer and varmints with no problem.

[Dbl gun]

Between the 222, 22-250 and 204, I would definitely do with the 22-250. Haven't had experience with the 204 but I've shot the 222 and 22-250. 22-250 can reach out a bit further. Not sold at all on any of them for deer though. Step up to a 243! Great for varmints too.

[Taurus Fan]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

I suspect there is little difference between the choices listed for barrel life. The reality is that most loose interest in the gun before they burn out the barrel (1000-3000 rounds for a centerfire). The .223 is a better performing cartridge than the .222, and I believe there may be army surplus ammo for it at good prices.

With all I hear of the situation, I would recommend the .243 and a low cost Lee reloading outfit. Reloading is not difficult and opens the door to a lot more options than factory loads. It may not compete in cost to army surplus ammo however.

Ron

Probly true. Here's a short essay on barrel life of the super fast cartridges:
Barrel-Burners

[sell33]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

I'm partial to the Remington 700 as well. The SPS Varmint model may get you in at that price. Probably will have to compromise on the scope, but that could be upgraded later. Same with the synthetic stock, if he decides later that can be upgraded as well. Almost unlimited choices with the 700 action.

Remington Model 700™ SPS™ Varmint

That is exactly what we looked at yesterday and he almost bought but wanted to do more hw. The only one in stock where we went was in .17 remington and i thought a little would be better, especially for yotes.

Originally Posted by samuel

Michigan for one specifies centerfire,not caliber,as other states do. sam.

Only spec is centerfire? does this mean people could hunt with centerfire 17s? that seems a bit crazy to me. I just knew at least 22 centerfires are legal b/c i know people that have used them there.

[Ron AKA]

Here is a good article on the 243. It is essentially a .308 case and 6mm bore. That is a much better bore size for the case than the .308. Even the benchrest target guys like it. And they like very few of the standard cartridges.

.243 Win + .243 AI Cartridge Guide

Ron

[samuel]

Originally Posted by sell33

That is exactly what we looked at yesterday and he almost bought but wanted to do more hw. The only one in stock where we went was in .17 remington and i thought a little would be better, especially for yotes.



Only spec is centerfire? does this mean people could hunt with centerfire 17s? that seems a bit crazy to me. I just knew at least 22 centerfires are legal b/c i know people that have used them there.

There is no caliber specified in Michigan as to centerfire rifles,and no shape of cartridge in handguns,only cal,.357.The same is true with ml,s,they must be 45cal and larger in both handguns and rifles.Shotguns arent specified as to how large but include .410. sam.

[aht_six]

Originally Posted by samuel

It is imposible to use any weight bullet in .22cal by weight vs speed.A .222 will stabilise just as heavy of bullets as a .22-250 and vise versa if they have the same rate of twist barrels.If they have 1in14",they wont stabilise over 55gr spfb,1in12" will stabilise up to about 62gr,1in9"will go to about 70gr.This depends on the length of the bullet.The higher BC the longer the bullet and the faster twist you need.In other words a 55gr softpoint,flatbase will stabilise in a slower twist than a 55gr boattail,hollowpoint because spfb bullets are shorter.It takes a 1in7"twist to stabilise an 80gr bullet in any .22 centerfire cartridge from .222 to .220swift.Anyone with all that much knowledge on pd hunting should already know this. sam.


No high velocity gun barrel lasts over 1to2 seconds,working life.Since it takes a milisecond for a bullet to travel the length of the barrel and there are a thousand miliseconds in a second,2000rds would equal 2 seconds of actual work for the barrel.I cant understand why people worry about barrel life when under normal shooting you never will burn out a barrel in your lifetime,and if you do,it can be replaced fairly cheaply. sam.

It's true that an 80 grain bullet won't stabilize properly in a 22-250 with 1 in 14 twist. (Sierra recommends 1 in 8) However, there is no question that bullet velocity does have an effect on the amount of twist required to stabilize a bullet. A perfect example would be a 60 grain .224 bullet in a 222 with 1 in 14 twist vs a 22-250 with a 1 in 14 twist. In a .222 @ 3000 fps bullet stabilization is problematic but in a 22-250 @ 3500 fps it works great. Even though the twist is the same, the higher velocity increases the rpm of the bullet which improves the gyroscopic effect.

I have shot out a couple of 22-250's and one .223. I didn't keep track of how many rounds it took but I'm guessing maybe 3000 for the 22-250 and probably twice as many for the .223. A local gunsmith shortened the chamber end of the barrel on my .223 and re-chambered it for a $100. It's as good as new.

[sbowers5]

Sam you are going to have to explain to me how a 1-14 twist will make a bullet gain rpm by going faster, i guess i'm stupid but 1-14 is 1-14 no matter how fast it goes. It only gets to make (1) revolution in every 14 inches it travels . Just my opinion.
steve

[samuel]

Originally Posted by sbowers5

Sam you are going to have to explain to me how a 1-14 twist will make a bullet gain rpm by going faster, i guess i'm stupid but 1-14 is 1-14 no matter how fast it goes. It only gets to make (1) revolution in every 14 inches it travels . Just my opinion.
steve

It,s the distance per minute or feet per second.If a bullet is traveling at 3000fps and another is doing 4000fps then the slower one is only turning 3/4th,s of the revolutions per minute because it is only traveling 3/4th,s as far in the same time period. sam.

[sbowers5]

Thanks sam i appreciate the info. Now i feel much better.
steve

[sell33]

Ok so basically this all boils down to either get a 22-250 or 243 right? lol

[SwedeSteve]

I hunted Mule Deer from the ages of 12 - 15 with a 222! I never lost a deer, and I never had to shoot twice! I would wholeheartedley recommend it for someone who is going to use it most for varmint! Sam's lesson on barrel life is spot on! Come on now!

[sell33]

What kinds of loads did you use steve? headshots maybe also? sounds like you may have been a bit undergunned but i have heard of people using 22-250 and 204 on mulies so obviously it can be done....just wouldn't be my first cartridge choice for mule deer

[zukman]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

The .223 is a better performing cartridge than the .222, and I believe there may be army surplus ammo for it at good prices.Ron

Being from Canada you must not know that the us is in a war right now and .223 shells are hard to come by now and again. I just picked up a new A bolt .222 and it will out shoot my .223's right out of the box. It is less to reload also. ( 1 or 2 grains less powder ) It all adds up.


Surplus .223 Not

[matt760]

a 223 is somewhat comparable and a whole lot cheaper to shoot. and ammo is easier to find. i plan on buying a NEF ultra varmint in 223 sometime soon. a 22-250 is more versatile but more expensive too. a i dont think a 204 should be considered for deer at all unless you can put it right between its eyes. just my opinion.

[sell33]

Well, i know this is a little old but thanks for all the info guys, my brother in law ended up getting a 22-250. He got a stevens 200 on sale, hasn't shot it yet and is now looking for a scope....any suggestions on a scope? I know he will not spend more than say 200....that would be pushing it too.

Thanks

[lefty o]

for under 200, look into the mueller line of scopes.

[Magnumsrule]

Originally Posted by zukman

Being from Canada you must not know that the us is in a war right now and .223 shells are hard to come by now and again. I just picked up a new A bolt .222 and it will out shoot my .223's right out of the box. It is less to reload also. ( 1 or 2 grains less powder ) It all adds up.


Surplus .223 Not

hey there dude, please don't start dissing Canadians on your first post. I get tired of it really fst and as far as i know Ron dont appreciate it much either. Makes YOU look ignorant. And as you might not know we are also in a war.

As for the actual question i would say 243. Has a good selection of bullets and is about the right amount of gun for most deer out to modest ranges. Varmints will fall to it no prob. The 25-06 is probobly getting a little much to be shooting repetitively.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by HAWKEYE50

I have'nt heard that Michigan would be allowing the .22cal. for deer. I hope not, people being what we are. You'll have some out in the woods with 10/22's, hunting deer. Michigan is a divided state with the lower half of the mitten only open to shotgun/muzzle loader and bow. The upper half being also open to centerfire rifle. Also don't forget that only STAIGHT WALLED pistol cartridges are legal. If the DNR catches you in the woods with a singleshot pistol with a shouldered cartridge, you may loose the firearm. That's why I only will be hunting deer with my muzzeloader from now on. One weapon for the whole state, only one to get REALLY good at hitting targets and game.

To put your fears at rest,Mich.specifies centerfire,rimfires are illegal for deer.Of course I dont consider some centerfires much better than the rimfires,especially the .17cal. sam.

Originally Posted by Magnumsrule

hey there dude, please don't start dissing Canadians on your first post. I get tired of it really fst and as far as i know Ron dont appreciate it much either. Makes YOU look ignorant. And as you might not know we are also in a war.

As for the actual question i would say 243. Has a good selection of bullets and is about the right amount of gun for most deer out to modest ranges. Varmints will fall to it no prob. The 25-06 is probobly getting a little much to be shooting repetitively.

I personally respect your posts,as I do others from Canada.You certainly reccomended correctly this time when you named the .243win..It has a great selection of bullets if you handload and not bad if you use factory loads,making it a great choice for dual purpose deer/varmint hunting. sam.

[338RemUltraMag]

nothing wrong with canadians eh mate? for a scope I would go for a BSA 6x24 under 200 and a quality scope... if you want they also have a 8x32 for about 20 more