222? 22-250? 204?

sell33 · 03-21-2008, 04:24 PM

Which caliber would be best? Mainly varmint hunting (coyote, fox, groundhog). Now i may have the chance to deer hunt in MI within the next year or two and 22 cals are legal there i know, which would be my best bet tho? i have basically narrowed it down to these 3, but if there is a better caliber feel free to tell me.

Thanks

jaeger · 03-21-2008, 04:40 PM

not sure if you are dead set on a .22 but a 25-06 would do nicely for what you mentioned plus should be the right medicine for a whitetail.

sbowers5 · 03-21-2008, 04:53 PM

222, 22-250 are both .224 cal. and legal, but the 204 is only 20 cal and is not legal for deer in any state that i know of, with that said i personally would go with the 22-250, now having made that choice i would spend a lot of time becoming verry,very, familiar and accurate with my chosen rifle so that shot placement is never in doubt.Just my opinion.
steve

Ron AKA · 03-21-2008, 04:56 PM

The 22-250 is easily the best choice of the 3 choices you listed. Very nice cartridge. However, it really is marginal for deer, and the reason why it is not legal in some places. I know some people shoot deer with a .22 rimfire. However, I would suggest the .243 if you want to hunt deer and still have a reasonably small bore. Yes, it will have a bit of a recoil, but that is a small price for more humane hunting.

Ron

sell33 · 03-21-2008, 05:07 PM

Thats kind of what i was thinking, 243 or 25-06 the gun is actually for my brother in law and he will more than likely not hunt deer with it, but there is the possibility. 22-250 sounded like a winner to me too...

Blackrock · 03-21-2008, 08:32 PM

Max bullet weight for a .222 is 60 grains but a 22-250 will throw a 80 grain. I like my .222 with 50g for P dogs and my 6mm with 87g for Yotes. The 22-250 is a fine versatile round and I will own one again some day. I feel the .204 is just one step ahead of the .17's and I have HEARD a fickle round to reload for. But I have seen em all on the dog towns in Wyoming and everybody having fun.

7mmremmag1995 · 03-21-2008, 08:41 PM

the 22-250 is the best one listed but i suggest a .243, 25-06, or even a .260 rem.

Taurus Fan · 03-21-2008, 09:54 PM

Deuce two-fifty is indeed great, but how much do you plan to shoot it? A lot? If you're a reloader and like to burn up ammo, you may consider the accelerated throat erosion and shorter barrel life of the hot 22-250 and go with the more sedate .222, especially if you're a one-rifle shooter. Your rifle and money will go farther.
The 22-250 isn't too far behind the old 220 Swift, and that cartridge was notorious for eating up barrels and throats in a very short time, with accuracy and velocity dropping off after just several hundred rounds.
(Or so I've heard.)

sell33 · 03-21-2008, 10:52 PM

Well this gun is for my brother in law, he is from a city, married my sister 5 years ago and we introduced him to guns and hunting. now he is really into the idea of coyote and varmint hunting and he and i both want to get a lot more into it. this would be his only rifle other than a 22. So i suppose it would be good to mention it would basically be his starter center fire. he does not reload or anything. since he wuold only be shooting factory loads (for now, i may begin reloading this summer) ammo price is kind of a big factor for him too. because of this he was initially completely interested in 223, but 222 factory loads seem to be pretty cheap also, and a little better trajectory, as does the 204 and 22-250. since this is his only rifle, and pry will be for awhile, maybe the 22-250 might be bad? I don't know that he would shoot it enough to worry about shooting out the barrel, but he plans on owning this gun for awhile so maybe he should go for 222? I myself am no expert on rifles, but know a lot more than him so i have been trying to help him with this selection. Thanks for the input, keep it coming

Ron AKA · 03-21-2008, 11:07 PM

I suspect there is little difference between the choices listed for barrel life. The reality is that most loose interest in the gun before they burn out the barrel (1000-3000 rounds for a centerfire). The .223 is a better performing cartridge than the .222, and I believe there may be army surplus ammo for it at good prices.

With all I hear of the situation, I would recommend the .243 and a low cost Lee reloading outfit. Reloading is not difficult and opens the door to a lot more options than factory loads. It may not compete in cost to army surplus ammo however.

Ron

sell33 · 03-21-2008, 11:10 PM

Hmm well i plan on reloading either way so i will reload for him probably. some charts i looked at i thought the 222 was slightly ahead of 223? not sure. how about 17 remington? he looked at that today too (obviously not for deer only varmint i doubt he ever actually deer hunts, well not soon enough that he can't use the excuse to buy a new rifle

)

Brad Y · 03-22-2008, 12:23 AM

It all depends how far away the varmints are that you shoot. If they are 200 yards or closer, get a 223. The 223 has a little more power than the 222. Its also cheap to get ammo for and components are cheap as well if you handload, 222 is really being overtaken by it and not that many rifle companies chamber for it now days. The 223 on the other hand is probably the easiest cartrige around to find. If your varmints are further away then get the 22-250. Its got more power again but is very loud. The 204 will be similar without as much noise, but IMO doesnt have the sheer brute that the 22-250 does (think about it seriously with coyotes), especially since it can handle 55gr bullets and the 204 is limited to 40gr and under. To be honest the 22-250 will do anything in the varmint category. Ammo probably wont be as cheap as the 223 but wont be far off at all. Take a look at the tikka T3 range, they offer sub MOA rifles as standard and the trigger can be easily lightened. They are also availble in left and right hand models.

For deer, you will want a 25-06 with a decent 90-100gr bullet. When he goes deer hunting he can look at that sort of calibre prior to the trip.

AKHunter · 03-22-2008, 01:09 AM

I would step up to a .243 as the next rifle, it is good for varmints and good for deer. Recoil is low/minimal. A great rifle for anyone learning to shoot centerfire rifle cartridges IMO. The sound and look of a big game gun without the recoil.

win39 · 03-22-2008, 07:14 AM

The 25 WSSM would be the caliber I would be researching. You have the short action with the 25/06 ballistics. It is an excellent Varmint and Deer cartridge.

sell33 · 03-22-2008, 08:20 AM

Ok, so now i guess i should give his price range lol. He really does not want to spend much more than around 5-600 on teh whole deal. I knwo this is not a lot at all for a good varmint gun, but for a starter i think he will be ok. He is all about the remington 700. I have told him to look at savage, stevens, H&R, NEF, etc. We have looked at all of thsoe mentioned except the stevens 200 because no local shop has one in stock. I have heard nothing but good about the 200 for the price, so we did some research and he is beginning to like it too(for teh price). The only problem is, on all the guns we looked at and that i have shot in the past the savages seem to have a much stiffer bolt than the remingtons, rugers, and winchesters i have shot. Is this teh norm? One big plus we both liked is the accutrigger. I suggested he should keep saving and just get teh gun he really wants to last forever once he can afford but he doesn't want to do that. His philosophy is if he buys one now, even a cheap one, he can learn on it and if he wants to upgrade sell it (he knows he will take a little hit but he thinks the use he will get out of it is worth it.) Remington 700 is his front runner right nwo , but is at the very top or out of his price range at the moment so I think he may end up ordering a stevens 200 if he can find one to look at somewhere. How do these cheaper guns mentioned perform? My dad just bought an NEF 30-06 but i have yet to shoot it and have never had any other of these single shots. Thanks for all your help keep it coming

Ron AKA · 03-22-2008, 09:03 AM

I'm partial to the Remington 700 as well. The SPS Varmint model may get you in at that price. Probably will have to compromise on the scope, but that could be upgraded later. Same with the synthetic stock, if he decides later that can be upgraded as well. Almost unlimited choices with the 700 action.

Remington Model 700™ SPS™ Varmint

samuel · 03-22-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbowers5

222, 22-250 are both .224 cal. and legal, but the 204 is only 20 cal and is not legal for deer in any state that i know of, with that said i personally would go with the 22-250, now having made that choice i would spend a lot of time becoming verry,very, familiar and accurate with my chosen rifle so that shot placement is never in doubt.Just my opinion.
steve

Michigan for one specifies centerfire,not caliber,as other states do. sam.

vikingpreacher · 03-22-2008, 09:26 AM

For those animals plus deer the .22-250 would probably be the best but, I would also consider a .243 Winchester or a .25-06 Remington.

samuel · 03-22-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackrock

Max bullet weight for a .222 is 60 grains but a 22-250 will throw a 80 grain. I like my .222 with 50g for P dogs and my 6mm with 87g for Yotes. The 22-250 is a fine versatile round and I will own one again some day. I feel the .204 is just one step ahead of the .17's and I have HEARD a fickle round to reload for. But I have seen em all on the dog towns in Wyoming and everybody having fun.

It is imposible to use any weight bullet in .22cal by weight vs speed.A .222 will stabilise just as heavy of bullets as a .22-250 and vise versa if they have the same rate of twist barrels.If they have 1in14",they wont stabilise over 55gr spfb,1in12" will stabilise up to about 62gr,1in9"will go to about 70gr.This depends on the length of the bullet.The higher BC the longer the bullet and the faster twist you need.In other words a 55gr softpoint,flatbase will stabilise in a slower twist than a 55gr boattail,hollowpoint because spfb bullets are shorter.It takes a 1in7"twist to stabilise an 80gr bullet in any .22 centerfire cartridge from .222 to .220swift.Anyone with all that much knowledge on pd hunting should already know this. sam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

Deuce two-fifty is indeed great, but how much do you plan to shoot it? A lot? If you're a reloader and like to burn up ammo, you may consider the accelerated throat erosion and shorter barrel life of the hot 22-250 and go with the more sedate .222, especially if you're a one-rifle shooter. Your rifle and money will go farther.
The 22-250 isn't too far behind the old 220 Swift, and that cartridge was notorious for eating up barrels and throats in a very short time, with accuracy and velocity dropping off after just several hundred rounds.
(Or so I've heard.)

No high velocity gun barrel lasts over 1to2 seconds,working life.Since it takes a milisecond for a bullet to travel the length of the barrel and there are a thousand miliseconds in a second,2000rds would equal 2 seconds of actual work for the barrel.I cant understand why people worry about barrel life when under normal shooting you never will burn out a barrel in your lifetime,and if you do,it can be replaced fairly cheaply. sam.

HAWKEYE50 · 03-22-2008, 11:07 AM

I have'nt heard that Michigan would be allowing the .22cal. for deer. I hope not, people being what we are. You'll have some out in the woods with 10/22's, hunting deer. Michigan is a divided state with the lower half of the mitten only open to shotgun/muzzle loader and bow. The upper half being also open to centerfire rifle. Also don't forget that only STAIGHT WALLED pistol cartridges are legal. If the DNR catches you in the woods with a singleshot pistol with a shouldered cartridge, you may loose the firearm. That's why I only will be hunting deer with my muzzeloader from now on. One weapon for the whole state, only one to get REALLY good at hitting targets and game.

03-21-2008, 04:24 PM	#1
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,176	222? 22-250? 204? Which caliber would be best? Mainly varmint hunting (coyote, fox, groundhog). Now i may have the chance to deer hunt in MI within the next year or two and 22 cals are legal there i know, which would be my best bet tho? i have basically narrowed it down to these 3, but if there is a better caliber feel free to tell me. Thanks

03-21-2008, 04:53 PM	#3
sbowers5 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: sawyer, ok Posts: 537	222, 22-250 are both .224 cal. and legal, but the 204 is only 20 cal and is not legal for deer in any state that i know of, with that said i personally would go with the 22-250, now having made that choice i would spend a lot of time becoming verry,very, familiar and accurate with my chosen rifle so that shot placement is never in doubt.Just my opinion. steve __________________ For those who never fought for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know.

03-21-2008, 08:41 PM	#7
7mmremmag1995 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,270 Images: 1 Blog Entries: 1	the 22-250 is the best one listed but i suggest a .243, 25-06, or even a .260 rem. __________________ Just LeDoux it

03-21-2008, 09:54 PM	#8
Taurus Fan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cobra Command Headquarters Posts: 781	Deuce two-fifty is indeed great, but how much do you plan to shoot it? A lot? If you're a reloader and like to burn up ammo, you may consider the accelerated throat erosion and shorter barrel life of the hot 22-250 and go with the more sedate .222, especially if you're a one-rifle shooter. Your rifle and money will go farther. The 22-250 isn't too far behind the old 220 Swift, and that cartridge was notorious for eating up barrels and throats in a very short time, with accuracy and velocity dropping off after just several hundred rounds. (Or so I've heard.) Last edited by Taurus Fan; 03-21-2008 at 10:26 PM.

03-21-2008, 11:10 PM	#11
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,176	Hmm well i plan on reloading either way so i will reload for him probably. some charts i looked at i thought the 222 was slightly ahead of 223? not sure. how about 17 remington? he looked at that today too (obviously not for deer only varmint i doubt he ever actually deer hunts, well not soon enough that he can't use the excuse to buy a new rifle)

03-21-2008, 04:40 PM	#2
jaeger Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 290 Images: 3	not sure if you are dead set on a .22 but a 25-06 would do nicely for what you mentioned plus should be the right medicine for a whitetail.

03-21-2008, 04:56 PM	#4
Ron AKA Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 704	The 22-250 is easily the best choice of the 3 choices you listed. Very nice cartridge. However, it really is marginal for deer, and the reason why it is not legal in some places. I know some people shoot deer with a .22 rimfire. However, I would suggest the .243 if you want to hunt deer and still have a reasonably small bore. Yes, it will have a bit of a recoil, but that is a small price for more humane hunting. Ron

03-21-2008, 05:07 PM	#5
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,176	Thats kind of what i was thinking, 243 or 25-06 the gun is actually for my brother in law and he will more than likely not hunt deer with it, but there is the possibility. 22-250 sounded like a winner to me too...

03-21-2008, 08:32 PM	#6
Blackrock Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SE Arizona's Gila Valley Posts: 260	Max bullet weight for a .222 is 60 grains but a 22-250 will throw a 80 grain. I like my .222 with 50g for P dogs and my 6mm with 87g for Yotes. The 22-250 is a fine versatile round and I will own one again some day. I feel the .204 is just one step ahead of the .17's and I have HEARD a fickle round to reload for. But I have seen em all on the dog towns in Wyoming and everybody having fun.

03-21-2008, 10:52 PM	#9
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,176	Well this gun is for my brother in law, he is from a city, married my sister 5 years ago and we introduced him to guns and hunting. now he is really into the idea of coyote and varmint hunting and he and i both want to get a lot more into it. this would be his only rifle other than a 22. So i suppose it would be good to mention it would basically be his starter center fire. he does not reload or anything. since he wuold only be shooting factory loads (for now, i may begin reloading this summer) ammo price is kind of a big factor for him too. because of this he was initially completely interested in 223, but 222 factory loads seem to be pretty cheap also, and a little better trajectory, as does the 204 and 22-250. since this is his only rifle, and pry will be for awhile, maybe the 22-250 might be bad? I don't know that he would shoot it enough to worry about shooting out the barrel, but he plans on owning this gun for awhile so maybe he should go for 222? I myself am no expert on rifles, but know a lot more than him so i have been trying to help him with this selection. Thanks for the input, keep it coming

03-21-2008, 11:07 PM	#10
Ron AKA Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 704	I suspect there is little difference between the choices listed for barrel life. The reality is that most loose interest in the gun before they burn out the barrel (1000-3000 rounds for a centerfire). The .223 is a better performing cartridge than the .222, and I believe there may be army surplus ammo for it at good prices. With all I hear of the situation, I would recommend the .243 and a low cost Lee reloading outfit. Reloading is not difficult and opens the door to a lot more options than factory loads. It may not compete in cost to army surplus ammo however. Ron

03-22-2008, 12:23 AM	#12
Brad Y Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: West Australia Posts: 98	It all depends how far away the varmints are that you shoot. If they are 200 yards or closer, get a 223. The 223 has a little more power than the 222. Its also cheap to get ammo for and components are cheap as well if you handload, 222 is really being overtaken by it and not that many rifle companies chamber for it now days. The 223 on the other hand is probably the easiest cartrige around to find. If your varmints are further away then get the 22-250. Its got more power again but is very loud. The 204 will be similar without as much noise, but IMO doesnt have the sheer brute that the 22-250 does (think about it seriously with coyotes), especially since it can handle 55gr bullets and the 204 is limited to 40gr and under. To be honest the 22-250 will do anything in the varmint category. Ammo probably wont be as cheap as the 223 but wont be far off at all. Take a look at the tikka T3 range, they offer sub MOA rifles as standard and the trigger can be easily lightened. They are also availble in left and right hand models. For deer, you will want a 25-06 with a decent 90-100gr bullet. When he goes deer hunting he can look at that sort of calibre prior to the trip.

03-22-2008, 01:09 AM	#13
AKHunter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 899	I would step up to a .243 as the next rifle, it is good for varmints and good for deer. Recoil is low/minimal. A great rifle for anyone learning to shoot centerfire rifle cartridges IMO. The sound and look of a big game gun without the recoil.

03-22-2008, 07:14 AM	#14
win39 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 201	The 25 WSSM would be the caliber I would be researching. You have the short action with the 25/06 ballistics. It is an excellent Varmint and Deer cartridge. __________________ Benny

03-22-2008, 08:20 AM	#15
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,176	Ok, so now i guess i should give his price range lol. He really does not want to spend much more than around 5-600 on teh whole deal. I knwo this is not a lot at all for a good varmint gun, but for a starter i think he will be ok. He is all about the remington 700. I have told him to look at savage, stevens, H&R, NEF, etc. We have looked at all of thsoe mentioned except the stevens 200 because no local shop has one in stock. I have heard nothing but good about the 200 for the price, so we did some research and he is beginning to like it too(for teh price). The only problem is, on all the guns we looked at and that i have shot in the past the savages seem to have a much stiffer bolt than the remingtons, rugers, and winchesters i have shot. Is this teh norm? One big plus we both liked is the accutrigger. I suggested he should keep saving and just get teh gun he really wants to last forever once he can afford but he doesn't want to do that. His philosophy is if he buys one now, even a cheap one, he can learn on it and if he wants to upgrade sell it (he knows he will take a little hit but he thinks the use he will get out of it is worth it.) Remington 700 is his front runner right nwo , but is at the very top or out of his price range at the moment so I think he may end up ordering a stevens 200 if he can find one to look at somewhere. How do these cheaper guns mentioned perform? My dad just bought an NEF 30-06 but i have yet to shoot it and have never had any other of these single shots. Thanks for all your help keep it coming

03-22-2008, 09:03 AM	#16
Ron AKA Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 704	I'm partial to the Remington 700 as well. The SPS Varmint model may get you in at that price. Probably will have to compromise on the scope, but that could be upgraded later. Same with the synthetic stock, if he decides later that can be upgraded as well. Almost unlimited choices with the 700 action. Remington Model 700™ SPS™ Varmint

03-22-2008, 09:26 AM	#18
vikingpreacher Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Iowa Posts: 269	For those animals plus deer the .22-250 would probably be the best but, I would also consider a .243 Winchester or a .25-06 Remington. __________________ Join the cartridge comparisons group! http://gunandgame.com/forums/group.php?groupid=3

03-22-2008, 11:07 AM	#20
HAWKEYE50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: HOLLY MI Posts: 166 Blog Entries: 20	I have'nt heard that Michigan would be allowing the .22cal. for deer. I hope not, people being what we are. You'll have some out in the woods with 10/22's, hunting deer. Michigan is a divided state with the lower half of the mitten only open to shotgun/muzzle loader and bow. The upper half being also open to centerfire rifle. Also don't forget that only STAIGHT WALLED pistol cartridges are legal. If the DNR catches you in the woods with a singleshot pistol with a shouldered cartridge, you may loose the firearm. That's why I only will be hunting deer with my muzzeloader from now on. One weapon for the whole state, only one to get REALLY good at hitting targets and game. __________________ "KEEPIN MY POWDER DRY"