05-14-2008, 06:04 PM
| #1 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Forsyth county of north carolina
Posts: 225
|  Muzzle velocity VS Muzzle Energy Hey guys, I called my local walmart, and they have a savage bolt action .17 HMR for 177.99, but they also have a marlin bolt action .22 magnum for 197.99. I am having trouble picking the one to buy. So I have boiled it down to this, would you rather have more velocity 2550 with the .17HMR with 245 lbs. of ME. or have a velocity of 2200 but have ME of 322 lbs.? You decide, all feedback appreciated.
__________________ I'M A SOUTHERNER THROUGH AND THROUGH! |
|  |
|
05-14-2008, 06:20 PM
| #2 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: A one horse town in E.Kansas.
Posts: 304
| Personally I use MV strictly for load building where I can run them over the chronograph to calculate pressure. If you can find down range ballistic data, I would go by that. Which gives the best combination of velocity and energy at the ranges you would typically use it at?
__________________ Yes, I Ride A Motorcycle. I Have To, It's Cheaper Than A Shrink. |
| |
|
05-14-2008, 06:39 PM
| #3 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern Mississippi
Posts: 144
| Since I own several rifles in both of the calibers I would go with the .17 with the faster velocity as it will give you a flatter shooting weapon with a better point blank zero. The .17 has a lighter bullet but what it will give you in speed and distance with great accuracy is worth the energy trade off in a small caliber. If the question was about a centerfire hunting cartridge then the thinking would be different for me taking into consideration what I was intending to do with it and the rifle twist rate. |
|
| |
|
05-14-2008, 06:50 PM
| #4 |
| Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 704
| Have a look at the article at the link below. May help you decide. Energy at the target distance is what counts. The .17 HMR loses energy faster. Personally I would go with a .22 LR, and if you need more power than the CCI Velocitor, then step up to a centerfire. The .22 LR will be much cheaper to shoot than the HMR or .22 Mag. http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm Ron Last edited by Ron AKA; 05-14-2008 at 06:54 PM. |
|
| |
|
05-14-2008, 07:12 PM
| #5 |
| Senior Member  | What cha got in mind nc. hunter: Sir; what cha got in mind? If you were looking to target at distances and maybe do a little ground hog or varminting; the .17hmr will cover much more territory. Longer range flatter shooting and a "whack" at the other end. Now given the .22 isn't too shabby; it'll not do what the .17hmr; as far as inherent accuracy nor "whack" at 100yds by comparison. Me? .17hmr knowing about what it'll cost to shoot. Compare the price to your ammunition and see if that points you differently. Follow up with more good questions and your thinking. Thanks
__________________ Craig By the standards of most |
|
| |
|
05-14-2008, 07:43 PM
| #6 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cobra Command Headquarters
Posts: 781
| Quote:
Ron, the site you ref shows the .17 losing much less energy than the .22 mag at all ranges, not more. Or am I missing something? From the site : " The .22 WMR starts with about a 75 ft. lb. advantage in kinetic energy at the muzzle. At 50 yards the 40 grain .22 bullet is carrying about 45 more ft. lbs., and at 100 yards the 40 grain .22 bullet still has a 25 ft. lb. advantage over the .17 bullets. At 150 yards the .17 HMR has an energy advantage of about 20 ft. lbs. over the 30 grain .22 bullet, and we have no figures for the 40 grain bullet beyond 100 yards" It appears that the .17 retains energy better than the .22 mag as distance increases. Last edited by Taurus Fan; 05-14-2008 at 08:05 PM. | |
|
| |
|
05-14-2008, 07:51 PM
| #7 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 741
| Energy is a very misunderstood topic. I don't see much to choose between the .17 and the .22 WMR. The .17 should be OK for the smaller critters. If I were shooting NY woodchucks, I would go with the .22 WMR for the heavier bullet. Neither is much good beyond 125-150 yards, except on the smallest of critters. You can hit 'em, but you may not anchor them.
__________________ Certified rifle and pistol instructor Last edited by rfc357; 05-14-2008 at 07:53 PM. |
|
| |
|
05-14-2008, 08:51 PM
| #8 | |
| Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 704
| Quote:
The 40 grain WMR has more energy at all distances. The missing 150 yard energy number is 124 ft lbs. I'm surprised that someone writing for Chuck Hawks does not know how to calculate the velocity and energy at any range once they know two ranges. Ron | |
|
| |
|
05-14-2008, 08:56 PM
| #9 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,176
| I have a 22 mag that i am confident in out to about 150. Either will do work on small varmints out to around that, that is stretching a 22 mag though. What do you plan on doing with this rifle? Also i have heard if you plan on eating something the 17 hmr does a lot more meat damage, of course head shots with either would work on squirrels, rabbits. etc. |
|
| |
|
05-15-2008, 06:33 AM
| #10 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,087
| Muzzle velocity=muzzle energy. sam. |
|
| |
|
05-15-2008, 08:41 AM
| #12 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Little town in ARKANSAW!
Posts: 2,138
| .22 mag all the way! Quote:
__________________ If you don't have anything good to say... Don't say it!  Last edited by andrew cochran; 05-15-2008 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost | |
|
| |
|
05-15-2008, 08:45 AM
| #13 |
| Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 704
| Yes, if the bullet weights are the same and velocity is the same then muzzle energy is the same. However if the velocity is the same but bullet weight is different then the energy will be different. A formula to calculate energy can be found here, along with a calculator to do it. http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/kineticenergy.swf Ron |
|
| |
|
05-16-2008, 05:47 PM
| #14 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 741
| Muzzle velocity does not equal muzzle energy. Energy equals 1/2 times mass times velocity squared. Don't make hand out some Fs in physics!
__________________ Certified rifle and pistol instructor |
|
| |
|
05-16-2008, 06:33 PM
| #15 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cobra Command Headquarters
Posts: 781
| Quote:
Last edited by Taurus Fan; 05-16-2008 at 06:36 PM. | |
|
| |
|
05-17-2008, 04:50 AM
| #16 | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,087
| Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by samuel; 05-17-2008 at 05:04 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost | ||
|
| |
|
05-17-2008, 05:12 AM
| #17 |
| Senior Member  | How about this Sam more muzzle velocity equals more muzzle energy. Now how about a momentum formula. momentum = mass * velocity Velocity is more important at the muzzle but momentum is more important at the point of contact.Hows that for muddying the water. heh heh heh
__________________ Jan. 4, 2007...Gasoline $2.10/gallon HMMM? Jim  Last edited by jimkim; 05-17-2008 at 05:22 AM. |
|
| |
|
05-17-2008, 08:28 AM
| #18 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 741
| Sam, Absolutely not. If the velocity is zero, the kinetic energy is zero.
__________________ Certified rifle and pistol instructor |
|
| |
|
05-17-2008, 09:05 AM
| #19 |
| Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 704
| Actually I would not agree that momentum is an important factor. It is if you have tug boats and things bumping into each other and you want to figure out velocity of each after they bump in an elastic manner. Energy is energy. It is the capability to do damage, and it is the bullet's job to fulfill that capability. This is not an elastic collision, and the momentum is not useful to predict anything. For the same bullet weight if you double the velocity the energy increases by four times, due to the fact that energy depends on velocity squared. Ron |
|
| |
|
05-17-2008, 12:44 PM
| #20 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,087
| Quote:
| |
|
| |
