Long distance practice?

Shootester · 06-28-2008, 12:27 PM

Hey guys! It has been awhile since I've been on. I have been toying with this idea, and I want to know if it will work. I don't really have the time money, or space (atleast within half an hour) to do longer shots, but I would like to work on shooting longer distances. My question is this. Would taking a quarter, or an even smaller object, placing it, say about 25 ft away, and using a bb gun, would this be close enough to simulating a shot at 500 yds or more so that it would improve my shot when actually shooting at 500 yds or more? This is all with iron sights. I know this doesn't completely match what it would be to take a shot like that, but would it atleast help?

jv101 · 06-28-2008, 12:34 PM

honestly, i dont think this would work. cant really help you sorry, but it doesnt sound like it would work too well. but i dont shoot 500yards yet, so idk lol

telkev · 06-28-2008, 12:52 PM

Proper form and shooting technique can be practiced at any distance. Making shots at 500 yds. can only be practiced at 500 yds. or longer. You cannot simulate the rifles inherent accuracy, bullet drop, and wind drift conditions shooting at close range.

Shootester · 06-28-2008, 01:07 PM

I don't think this would simulate it completly, but I was thinking it would help with sight alignment and form. Taking wind and drop and that would still only be learned by actually shooting that distance, but could this be an at home exercise to help?

AKHunter · 06-28-2008, 01:58 PM

It will benefit your shooting skills, no doubt. Particularly sight alignment and form and, that will add to the ability to make long range shots. However it is not the same.

I use a .22LR to practice my marksmanship at small targets, shotshell husks and smaller out to 75yards. I know this has helped me and, my wife, a great deal.

When you can get to the range, and if they have silouettes, give them a go.

The range I frequent doesn't have any (sniff) but, the range on the other side of town, 30 miles from me does. I give them a go whenever I get to that range. They are set at 3-4-500 and 600 yards, with caliber restrictions (sniff) of .30-06' or less.

Have fun.

Wingwiper · 06-28-2008, 02:03 PM

They have scaled targets, buy some.

They have targets that when used at 25 meters will look the same size as the same type of target at 500 meters. Use the right scale for the right distance and you will be all set.

What you will NOT be dealing with is the long range affect of wind. It will give you a good feel and what I noticed most about NEW shooters when they tried for the Team was when we got further back, they looked at the small target and told themselves they couldn't do it, long before they tried. BELIEVING you can do something is a giant step in being able to do it. it is good practice and you will always benifit from the practice.

Shootester · 06-28-2008, 02:04 PM

So basically it is a good at home practice, but, as I thought, does not substitute actually long rang shooting. Thx for the feedback!

Wingwiper · 06-28-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shootester

So basically it is a good at home practice, but, as I thought, does not substitute actually long rang shooting. Thx for the feedback!

It is Great Practice, and practice all the steps with each shot fired, SIGHT PICTURE, SIGHT ALIGNMENT, TRIGGER CONTROL, BREATHING, FOLLOW THROUGH. Also work on postions and NATURAL POINT OF AIM and SKELETAL SUPPORT.

Have fun and get something out of it... CHALLENGE YOURSELF.

nathangdad · 06-28-2008, 03:37 PM

just beyond reason in my opinion and experience. Yes, you can probably find some writeup about this happening but maybe to one of out of so many millions of shooters.

Iron sights, for most of the human population, are something more useful at 50 yards rather than 500.

Don't make yourself miserable with expectations that are not realistic.

Midas · 06-28-2008, 03:38 PM

The only way to be proficient at 500 yards, is to get trigger time at 500 yards, there is absolutely no substitute for practice. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of variables that come into play, when you are shooting at 500 yards, or even 300 yards. You can practice proper mechanics with the BB gun, which will no doubt help you when you shoot a centerfire rifle, but again, if you want to get good at 500 yards, you gotta put bullets downrange.

Wingwiper · 06-28-2008, 03:55 PM

High Power Matches are OPEN SIGHTS back to 600 yards and some back to 1000 yards.

To use a scale target for 500 yards for close range practice is good for SIGHT PICTURE and practicing control... I absolutely agree that there is no real subsitute for 500 yard shooting other than DOING IT. For a beginner who has a desire to learn, a BB gun with scaled targets will NEVER, EVER hurt.

I started many years ago, shooting Rats at the dump and bottle caps. I would set Clay Pigeons up at 100 yards and 200 yards and challenge myself. The 100 yards became fairly easy. 200 yards is still a challenge but would try to go for a higher percentage of hits every time I did it.

For a real challenge I would set up a Coke bottle on it's side at about 50 feet and practice putting a bullet thru the neck and shooting out the bottom.

During the winter here, we do alot of INDOOR Practice with sub-caliber devices and scaled targets.

ANY TIME on the trigger is better than no time and if you challenge and practice the fundamentals of shooting when you do it, then when you go outside and ACTUALLY do the long range, the critical parts have become instinctive and you will need to learn the mirage, windage and lighting conditions, weather, humdity etc and their effects on the impact.

If you want to earn your Bronze, Silver or Gold in shooting, you will need to learn to shoot 200, 300, 400, 500 and back to 600 yards. The BIG BOY Match is 1000 yards and IRON SIGHTS. Everyone has a different goal, to have a Dream to shoot Long Range is what will make you different from MOST shooters and make you one who will accomplish their Dreams.. GO FOR IT......

Shootester · 06-28-2008, 10:10 PM

Thanks wing! I'll have to look into getting some of those targets. It will be a great way to start!

madcratebuilder · 06-29-2008, 07:31 AM

Trigger time! Shoot everyday, 100+ rounds down range. Everything Wingwiper said is right on the money. A shooting coach is a big plus.

lefty o · 06-29-2008, 10:27 AM

i'll actually have to agree with wingwiper on this one. practice up close. it is useless to go and try to shoot at 500yds, if your not capable of shooting well at much closer yardage.

andrew cochran · 06-29-2008, 10:33 AM

When you hit that quater with the red ryder let me know!

rfc357 · 06-29-2008, 05:36 PM

Gee, nathangdad, I'll have to tell my friend who is trying out for the Palma team (800, 900, 1000 yards, iron sights) what you wrote. Hope it doesn't ruin his day. Guess I'll have to consider giving up service rifle shooting (200, 300, 600 yards, iron sights). I'll spread the word to all of the thousands of other service rifle shooters, also. I don't want anyone I know to engage in an activity that is "beyond reason," as you put it. Maybe we can all take up knitting..........................

On a more serious note, air gun practice is an excellent way to hone your rifle skills! I shoot my air gun in my basement when the weather is too bad to go to the range. I would only offer one caution: get an accurate airgun. No bb gun is accurate enough to simulate a firearm. Practice with an inaccurate bb gun is counterproductive. The Daisy entry-level .177 guns are accurate and economical, although their triggers leave a little to be desired.

big shrek · 06-29-2008, 10:32 PM

A BB-gun is NOT really a good substitute for any kind of firearm.
It has no BANG (which causes some folks to flinch) to overcome.
It has no recoil of note.
It is forced to use air pressure which may not be the same every shot.
Might as well use Airsoft.
Both will give you trigger time, but the triggers are going to leave a LOT to be desired.

Graded targets are a good training tool, used with a .22 with subsonic (target) rounds you can at least have all the important aspects of riflery available without driving the neighbors bananas.

Other Options...if there is not a long-range range available...find a section of countryside where Major Power Lines are run, there will usually be about a mile or two of good empty straight-line shooting available. Find an area with a good natural backstop (Hill/etc), set up yer targets, and walk back 300-500-700 yds and let fly!

Also, if you live near any kind of tree-farm you can quite often lease hunting/land use rights from them. This will give you an inexpensive acreage where NO OTHER HUMANS ARE to practice in.

Cyrille · 06-29-2008, 10:58 PM

The longest range I have found within "reasonable" driving distance of 100 miles or less, is 100 yds. I use a 20X20" target at that distance and hit it more than I miss sometimes, like this past Saturday I get 3" groupings I believe good sights help a lot. Saturday I used a vernier type peep sight and got four 3" 5 shot groups with my .45/70.

rfc357 · 06-30-2008, 07:09 AM

big shrek, most of the disadvantages you claim for an air gun are actually advantages. Accurate air guns (not BB guns) afford an excellent training opportunity for high power shooting, as do accurate rimfire rifles. By not having to deal with recoil and noise, the shooter is afforded the opportunity to concentrate on the basics of marksmanship. Whenever I feel my high power skills slipping, I schedule a few sessions with my air or rimfire match rifles. It works wonders. In the winter, air gun and rimfire competition keep me in shape for the summer high power season. Many shooters do this.

Shootester · 06-30-2008, 02:16 PM

Guys I finally got around to setting this up in my basement today and gave it a shot, no pun intended. I had some copperhead bbs, and daisy flat nose pellets. I tested to see which ones were more accurate, and as you probably alread know the pellets were definately more accurate. With a Daisy powerline 901 I was able to hit the quarter first shot with the pellets. This wasn't as easy as it sounds since at the distance I was shooting, about 5 yards, the guns shoots about an inch to the right. So I had to adjust for this, but when I looked at the quarter I could see where I think the pellet hit. This I thought wasn't good enough so I just went with the bbs. The first three shots were a little high, but I got washington in the face with the fourth shot. I thought with as close as I was this was to easy, so I decided to use a penny since there were no dimes around. I actually got the penny with the first shot, but it only tipped the penny on the outside. I wasn't satisfied with this, so about eight shots later I got Lincoln right in the chest. This practice for long distance shooting, but I'm sure, no, I know it will definately help. When I switched from the quarter to the penny, even though it is only a little smaller than a dime, it still made a difference when looking at it. Actually, when I first stepped back and was pumping the gun, I thought, "Wow, this is going to be harder!" I'm sure if I were to step up to the range now and see a target at 500 yards or more, I might not be able to hit it with the first few shots, but I definately will have more confidence in my self than before. So I say this definately is a good idea to do. I will post up pics later.

06-28-2008, 12:27 PM	#1
Shootester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 217	Long distance practice? Hey guys! It has been awhile since I've been on. I have been toying with this idea, and I want to know if it will work. I don't really have the time money, or space (atleast within half an hour) to do longer shots, but I would like to work on shooting longer distances. My question is this. Would taking a quarter, or an even smaller object, placing it, say about 25 ft away, and using a bb gun, would this be close enough to simulating a shot at 500 yds or more so that it would improve my shot when actually shooting at 500 yds or more? This is all with iron sights. I know this doesn't completely match what it would be to take a shot like that, but would it atleast help?

06-28-2008, 12:52 PM	#3
telkev Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: SW MS Posts: 243	Proper form and shooting technique can be practiced at any distance. Making shots at 500 yds. can only be practiced at 500 yds. or longer. You cannot simulate the rifles inherent accuracy, bullet drop, and wind drift conditions shooting at close range. __________________ One hole groups are as easy as pulling the trigger, until you pull it the second time.

06-28-2008, 03:37 PM	#9
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,500	Well, 500 yards with iron sights is . . . just beyond reason in my opinion and experience. Yes, you can probably find some writeup about this happening but maybe to one of out of so many millions of shooters. Iron sights, for most of the human population, are something more useful at 50 yards rather than 500. Don't make yourself miserable with expectations that are not realistic.

06-28-2008, 03:38 PM	#10
Midas Troll B' Gone Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springdale, Arkansas Posts: 3,813 Images: 2 Blog Entries: 6	The only way to be proficient at 500 yards, is to get trigger time at 500 yards, there is absolutely no substitute for practice. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of variables that come into play, when you are shooting at 500 yards, or even 300 yards. You can practice proper mechanics with the BB gun, which will no doubt help you when you shoot a centerfire rifle, but again, if you want to get good at 500 yards, you gotta put bullets downrange. __________________ "Recoil lasts for a second, gravity lasts forever"

06-29-2008, 07:31 AM	#13
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 593	Trigger time! Shoot everyday, 100+ rounds down range. Everything Wingwiper said is right on the money. A shooting coach is a big plus. __________________ The difference between a hot dog and a weenie is a fine line.....

06-28-2008, 12:34 PM	#2
jv101 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 145	honestly, i dont think this would work. cant really help you sorry, but it doesnt sound like it would work too well. but i dont shoot 500yards yet, so idk lol

06-28-2008, 01:07 PM	#4
Shootester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 217	I don't think this would simulate it completly, but I was thinking it would help with sight alignment and form. Taking wind and drop and that would still only be learned by actually shooting that distance, but could this be an at home exercise to help?

06-28-2008, 01:58 PM	#5
AKHunter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 899	It will benefit your shooting skills, no doubt. Particularly sight alignment and form and, that will add to the ability to make long range shots. However it is not the same. I use a .22LR to practice my marksmanship at small targets, shotshell husks and smaller out to 75yards. I know this has helped me and, my wife, a great deal. When you can get to the range, and if they have silouettes, give them a go. The range I frequent doesn't have any (sniff) but, the range on the other side of town, 30 miles from me does. I give them a go whenever I get to that range. They are set at 3-4-500 and 600 yards, with caliber restrictions (sniff) of .30-06' or less. Have fun.

06-28-2008, 02:03 PM	#6
Wingwiper Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 789	They have scaled targets, buy some. They have targets that when used at 25 meters will look the same size as the same type of target at 500 meters. Use the right scale for the right distance and you will be all set. What you will NOT be dealing with is the long range affect of wind. It will give you a good feel and what I noticed most about NEW shooters when they tried for the Team was when we got further back, they looked at the small target and told themselves they couldn't do it, long before they tried. BELIEVING you can do something is a giant step in being able to do it. it is good practice and you will always benifit from the practice.

06-28-2008, 02:04 PM	#7
Shootester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 217	So basically it is a good at home practice, but, as I thought, does not substitute actually long rang shooting. Thx for the feedback!

06-28-2008, 03:55 PM	#11
Wingwiper Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 789	High Power Matches are OPEN SIGHTS back to 600 yards and some back to 1000 yards. To use a scale target for 500 yards for close range practice is good for SIGHT PICTURE and practicing control... I absolutely agree that there is no real subsitute for 500 yard shooting other than DOING IT. For a beginner who has a desire to learn, a BB gun with scaled targets will NEVER, EVER hurt. I started many years ago, shooting Rats at the dump and bottle caps. I would set Clay Pigeons up at 100 yards and 200 yards and challenge myself. The 100 yards became fairly easy. 200 yards is still a challenge but would try to go for a higher percentage of hits every time I did it. For a real challenge I would set up a Coke bottle on it's side at about 50 feet and practice putting a bullet thru the neck and shooting out the bottom. During the winter here, we do alot of INDOOR Practice with sub-caliber devices and scaled targets. ANY TIME on the trigger is better than no time and if you challenge and practice the fundamentals of shooting when you do it, then when you go outside and ACTUALLY do the long range, the critical parts have become instinctive and you will need to learn the mirage, windage and lighting conditions, weather, humdity etc and their effects on the impact. If you want to earn your Bronze, Silver or Gold in shooting, you will need to learn to shoot 200, 300, 400, 500 and back to 600 yards. The BIG BOY Match is 1000 yards and IRON SIGHTS. Everyone has a different goal, to have a Dream to shoot Long Range is what will make you different from MOST shooters and make you one who will accomplish their Dreams.. GO FOR IT......

06-28-2008, 10:10 PM	#12
Shootester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 217	Thanks wing! I'll have to look into getting some of those targets. It will be a great way to start!

06-29-2008, 10:27 AM	#14
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,812	i'll actually have to agree with wingwiper on this one. practice up close. it is useless to go and try to shoot at 500yds, if your not capable of shooting well at much closer yardage.

06-29-2008, 10:33 AM	#15
andrew cochran Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Little town in ARKANSAW! Posts: 2,161	When you hit that quater with the red ryder let me know! __________________ If you don't have anything good to say... Don't say it!

06-29-2008, 05:36 PM	#16
rfc357 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 741	Gee, nathangdad, I'll have to tell my friend who is trying out for the Palma team (800, 900, 1000 yards, iron sights) what you wrote. Hope it doesn't ruin his day. Guess I'll have to consider giving up service rifle shooting (200, 300, 600 yards, iron sights). I'll spread the word to all of the thousands of other service rifle shooters, also. I don't want anyone I know to engage in an activity that is "beyond reason," as you put it. Maybe we can all take up knitting.......................... On a more serious note, air gun practice is an excellent way to hone your rifle skills! I shoot my air gun in my basement when the weather is too bad to go to the range. I would only offer one caution: get an accurate airgun. No bb gun is accurate enough to simulate a firearm. Practice with an inaccurate bb gun is counterproductive. The Daisy entry-level .177 guns are accurate and economical, although their triggers leave a little to be desired. __________________ Certified rifle and pistol instructor

06-29-2008, 10:32 PM	#17
big shrek Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northwest, FL Posts: 467 Images: 37	A BB-gun is NOT really a good substitute for any kind of firearm. It has no BANG (which causes some folks to flinch) to overcome. It has no recoil of note. It is forced to use air pressure which may not be the same every shot. Might as well use Airsoft. Both will give you trigger time, but the triggers are going to leave a LOT to be desired. Graded targets are a good training tool, used with a .22 with subsonic (target) rounds you can at least have all the important aspects of riflery available without driving the neighbors bananas. Other Options...if there is not a long-range range available...find a section of countryside where Major Power Lines are run, there will usually be about a mile or two of good empty straight-line shooting available. Find an area with a good natural backstop (Hill/etc), set up yer targets, and walk back 300-500-700 yds and let fly! Also, if you live near any kind of tree-farm you can quite often lease hunting/land use rights from them. This will give you an inexpensive acreage where NO OTHER HUMANS ARE to practice in. __________________ No worry I are just der big dumb troll nevermind dis here notepad I am just countin' ma toes. Last edited by big shrek; 06-29-2008 at 10:35 PM.

06-29-2008, 10:58 PM	#18
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,851	The longest range I have found within "reasonable" driving distance of 100 miles or less, is 100 yds. I use a 20X20" target at that distance and hit it more than I miss sometimes, like this past Saturday I get 3" groupings I believe good sights help a lot. Saturday I used a vernier type peep sight and got four 3" 5 shot groups with my .45/70.

06-30-2008, 07:09 AM	#19
rfc357 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 741	big shrek, most of the disadvantages you claim for an air gun are actually advantages. Accurate air guns (not BB guns) afford an excellent training opportunity for high power shooting, as do accurate rimfire rifles. By not having to deal with recoil and noise, the shooter is afforded the opportunity to concentrate on the basics of marksmanship. Whenever I feel my high power skills slipping, I schedule a few sessions with my air or rimfire match rifles. It works wonders. In the winter, air gun and rimfire competition keep me in shape for the summer high power season. Many shooters do this. __________________ Certified rifle and pistol instructor

06-30-2008, 02:16 PM	#20
Shootester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 217	Guys I finally got around to setting this up in my basement today and gave it a shot, no pun intended. I had some copperhead bbs, and daisy flat nose pellets. I tested to see which ones were more accurate, and as you probably alread know the pellets were definately more accurate. With a Daisy powerline 901 I was able to hit the quarter first shot with the pellets. This wasn't as easy as it sounds since at the distance I was shooting, about 5 yards, the guns shoots about an inch to the right. So I had to adjust for this, but when I looked at the quarter I could see where I think the pellet hit. This I thought wasn't good enough so I just went with the bbs. The first three shots were a little high, but I got washington in the face with the fourth shot. I thought with as close as I was this was to easy, so I decided to use a penny since there were no dimes around. I actually got the penny with the first shot, but it only tipped the penny on the outside. I wasn't satisfied with this, so about eight shots later I got Lincoln right in the chest. This practice for long distance shooting, but I'm sure, no, I know it will definately help. When I switched from the quarter to the penny, even though it is only a little smaller than a dime, it still made a difference when looking at it. Actually, when I first stepped back and was pumping the gun, I thought, "Wow, this is going to be harder!" I'm sure if I were to step up to the range now and see a target at 500 yards or more, I might not be able to hit it with the first few shots, but I definately will have more confidence in my self than before. So I say this definately is a good idea to do. I will post up pics later.