looking for a long range gun

charles73 · 10-13-2009, 12:59 PM

If you can handle a single shot I would suggest the Savage Model 12 F/TR or the Model 12 F Class in 6.5-.284 Norma.
Just thought I would break up the 700 vs. 70 Monotony.

By the way I have both, and have never experienced any problems with either of them. Both have pet loads that shoot lights out. And they both will shoot better than I can personally hold.

Bart B. · 10-19-2009, 09:11 AM

Nothing's changed over the years regarding round receiver bedding issues. But only a small percentage of folks shooting them in competition will do well enough to see their accuracy degrade in a couple hundred shots.

Regarding MOA stuff and other angle issues, there's four different standards for what a mil is. Depending on which one is used, there's a small spread in how many there are in a circle. It ranges from about 6000 to 6400 or thereabouts. It's the 1 inch at 100 yard shooting standard for 1 MOA that was used for scoring ring diameters on the original smallbore and high power rifle targets; they were even inches in size.

One can use whatever standard they choose to express angular units. To folks who don't know which one they're using, it oft time causes problems. In the shooting sports, it's best to always use the 1/3600ths of the range for 1 MOA.

samuel · 10-19-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

Nothing's changed over the years regarding round receiver bedding issues. But only a small percentage of folks shooting them in competition will do well enough to see their accuracy degrade in a couple hundred shots.

Regarding MOA stuff and other angle issues, there's four different standards for what a mil is. Depending on which one is used, there's a small spread in how many there are in a circle. It ranges from about 6000 to 6400 or thereabouts. It's the 1 inch at 100 yard shooting standard for 1 MOA that was used for scoring ring diameters on the original smallbore and high power rifle targets; they were even inches in size.

One can use whatever standard they choose to express angular units. To folks who don't know which one they're using, it oft time causes problems. In the shooting sports, it's best to always use the 1/3600ths of the range for 1 MOA.

Still no substantiated proof about round receivers.Guess I will file it with your posts on 90 something reloads with one casing and other opinions of yours.I have seen and heard of lots of competition won by Remington actions in all classes that use them.And still Bart Bobbitt,s articles are the only ones I can find about having trouble with Remingtons.He even has them welding blocks on the bottom.The only one that even mentions it.It seems like if round bottoms were a biggy,we would hear about it and you could substantiate the problem.Good opinion on MOA tho. ,,,sam.

338RUM · 10-19-2009, 10:58 PM

I have 3 rem 700's in magnum calibers one being a 338 ultra mag that has 200 rounds through it, and the action is still as solid as ever.... IDK about bart's theory but I cant disprove it either

samuel · 10-20-2009, 01:21 AM

I am not trying to disprove anything.He ran Remingtons down,I just want verification to back his statements.Personal experience and researching the articles in books and on the net do verify that Rem,s are very popular actions in centerfire competition and what is found the most in the winners circle.This can be verified by putting centerfire rifle competition on your search and reading.You won't run out of reading. ,,,sam.

338RUM · 10-20-2009, 01:58 AM

oh i know that the 700 action is a reliable action for long range competition and am not doubting that fact, but I have asked the gunsmith I go to and he said he never heard of that problem... but what do I/We know!

HEMI · 10-20-2009, 04:08 AM

Remington 700s are one of the best actions out there.
With any new production rifle I would get the trigger tuned,
They are designed by lawyers for judges.

thebigitch62 · 10-23-2009, 09:52 AM

.300 remington ultra mag sendero. you'll hears lots of people saying it's a barrel burner it kicks like a mule, ammo is $65 a box, it cant do nothing a 30-06 can't do. this may or may-not be true, but when you shoot something it doesn't walk away.

Cyrano · 10-23-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

250-500 yards gives a multitude of options

I would definitely stay away from 7.62 x54 unless it's a special build. (that should get some reaction from my Mosin colleagues)

wun, you know as well as I do that the mighty Mosin-Nagant will easily reach that far and with decent accuracy - better than decent accuracy, if you're talking about a Finn with a Sako or a B barrel, or the "new" M85 sniper rifles the Finns built on old Mosin actions. The real limiting factor would be the ammunition. If you are serious about grouping well at that distance, you'll want to slug the barrel and then hand-load rounds tailored to it with bullets of the optimum weight for that range.

Considering that Simo Hayha and Vasili Zaitsev killed a thousand men between them using Mosin-Nagant sniper rifles during the Winter War and World War II, I don't think you can seriously argue that the Mosin-Nagant and its 7.62x54R round isn't up to the task of long range shooting.

338RUM · 10-23-2009, 11:05 AM

6.5-300 WSM is another option that would do well from 0 to 1000 yards

Deep13 · 10-23-2009, 11:10 AM

Savage model 12. Our club's range is limited to 200 yards, so I went with .223. I understand .223 is accurate to about 600 yards. For 700, I'd suggest .22-250 or .308. The model 12 has a heavy, crowned barrel, heavy action, heavy bolt, heavy laminated stock--did I mention it's heavy? The Savage Accutrigger is exceptional for an out-of-the-box unit. Since it is a bolt action, it can be easily cleaned.

338RUM · 10-23-2009, 11:29 AM

now to ring out the last in long range accuracy form the 223 use 65 or 70 grain bullets they are really nice!

wunhunglo · 10-23-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 338RUM

now to ring out the last in long range accuracy form the 223 use 65 or 70 grain bullets they are really nice!

Mine prefers the 75-80's at 600 yards. Depends on your twist. My friends 1 in 9 won't handle anything over 70 gn.

338RUM · 10-23-2009, 11:41 AM

one of the guys I shoot with and load for shoots 90's out of his but he has a 1-7" I think, one day when I got bored I tried them in my 223 WSSM that barrel has a 1-9" I didn't expect good accuracy but to my surprise they shot really good, I guess the velocity was enough to stabilize the bullet.

dmsbandit · 10-23-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

wun, you know as well as I do that the mighty Mosin-Nagant will easily reach that far and with decent accuracy - better than decent accuracy, if you're talking about a Finn with a Sako or a B barrel, or the "new" M85 sniper rifles the Finns built on old Mosin actions. The real limiting factor would be the ammunition. If you are serious about grouping well at that distance, you'll want to slug the barrel and then hand-load rounds tailored to it with bullets of the optimum weight for that range.

Considering that Simo Hayha and Vasili Zaitsev killed a thousand men between them using Mosin-Nagant sniper rifles during the Winter War and World War II, I don't think you can seriously argue that the Mosin-Nagant and its 7.62x54R round isn't up to the task of long range shooting.

Please enough already. The Nagant was the least accurate bolt gun in WWII and there is a big diffence between shooting people and shooting tiny groups at the range. Why do people think the answer to every question about guns or cartridges can to be solved by a Nagant?

Cyrano · 10-24-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsbandit

Please enough already. The Nagant was the least accurate bolt gun in WWII and there is a big diffence between shooting people and shooting tiny groups at the range. Why do people think the answer to every question about guns or cartridges can to be solved by a Nagant?

dms, they likely think so because the good ones (admittedly, mostly the Finnish versions with the really good barrels) do shoot really well. As I've said before, I have a MN that will shoot to MOA at 100 yards, the longest range I have available. But another reason people think you can solve problems with the Mosin is because they cost little enough you can afford to buy a couple and experiment with them, and not cry if your experiment goes south on you.

You can re-stock them. You can bed the actions. You can free-float or bed the barrels. You can thread and attach a muzzle brake if you think that will help accuracy. You can experiment with handloads with the confident expectation you won't blow up the barrel by changing the powder or upping the load. (Have you ever heard of someone blowing up a Mosin? I haven't.) You can play with the trigger pull without needing a machine shop to do it or spending a fortune on a custom trigger. You can experiment with polishes to different parts. You can install about eight different scope setups on it. You can try altering your own bolt. You can change out all the moving parts without needing a degree from Cal Tech. (Heck, I can do it, and according to my ASVAB scores I'm only marginally competent to tie my own shoes!)

Bottom line, no matter what you do to a Mosin, you can't hardy screw it up to the point it won't shoot at all. That's why many people think the Mosin Nagant is the solution to many rifle problems.

R5CYA · 10-24-2009, 10:31 PM

cyrano, you forgot to add that a "nagant" is a revolver and that someone who doesn't even know what a rifle is called is hardly in any position to report on it's advantages or disadvantages.

dmsbandit · 10-25-2009, 09:43 AM

After all that fiddling and monkeying around, you still have a club if you insist on using a Mosin-Nagant.

For probably less time and money that you'd be required and need to spend making the 'Nagant an Accurate Sporter rifle you can buy a Savage Long Range Hunter. With the accu-trigger, accu-stock, adjustable muzzle brake, adjustable cheek rest, and a match quality barrel chambered in 6.5x284 and a MSRP of under $700. AFter buying the Savage, you'd have a gun capable of killing anything up to Moose in size out to as far as you should be shooting, and would also be capable of WINNING 1000 yds matches.

So while you waste time and money trying to make a 'Nagant something it wasn't meant to be, I and hundreds of thousands of others will just continue to buy guns DESIGNED to do the job we ask of them.

samuel · 10-25-2009, 09:56 AM

Dms:You live a very secure,(boring) life. ,,,sam.

dmsbandit · 10-25-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuel

Dumbas:You live a very secure,(boring) life. ,,,sam.

No, I just want my money spent well on the proper tools for the job. I work too hard for my money to continually p i s s it away on guns not meant for the jobs people insist on using them for.

10-19-2009, 09:11 AM	#42
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 172	Nothing's changed over the years regarding round receiver bedding issues. But only a small percentage of folks shooting them in competition will do well enough to see their accuracy degrade in a couple hundred shots. Regarding MOA stuff and other angle issues, there's four different standards for what a mil is. Depending on which one is used, there's a small spread in how many there are in a circle. It ranges from about 6000 to 6400 or thereabouts. It's the 1 inch at 100 yard shooting standard for 1 MOA that was used for scoring ring diameters on the original smallbore and high power rifle targets; they were even inches in size. One can use whatever standard they choose to express angular units. To folks who don't know which one they're using, it oft time causes problems. In the shooting sports, it's best to always use the 1/3600ths of the range for 1 MOA.
	1 members found this post helpful.

10-19-2009, 10:58 PM	#44
338RUM Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD Posts: 1,025	I have 3 rem 700's in magnum calibers one being a 338 ultra mag that has 200 rounds through it, and the action is still as solid as ever.... IDK about bart's theory but I cant disprove it either __________________ diaper fetishist, gay ,neo Nazi ,slaves give me hope for the versatility of the human race. -Billy
	1 members found this post helpful.

10-20-2009, 01:58 AM	#46
338RUM Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD Posts: 1,025	oh i know that the 700 action is a reliable action for long range competition and am not doubting that fact, but I have asked the gunsmith I go to and he said he never heard of that problem... but what do I/We know! __________________ diaper fetishist, gay ,neo Nazi ,slaves give me hope for the versatility of the human race. -Billy
	1 members found this post helpful.

10-20-2009, 04:08 AM	#47
HEMI Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 1,180	Remington 700s are one of the best actions out there. With any new production rifle I would get the trigger tuned, They are designed by lawyers for judges.
	1 members found this post helpful.

10-23-2009, 11:05 AM	#50
338RUM Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD Posts: 1,025	6.5-300 WSM is another option that would do well from 0 to 1000 yards __________________ diaper fetishist, gay ,neo Nazi ,slaves give me hope for the versatility of the human race. -Billy

10-13-2009, 12:59 PM	#41
charles73 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Home On The Range Posts: 69	If you can handle a single shot I would suggest the Savage Model 12 F/TR or the Model 12 F Class in 6.5-.284 Norma. Just thought I would break up the 700 vs. 70 Monotony. By the way I have both, and have never experienced any problems with either of them. Both have pet loads that shoot lights out. And they both will shoot better than I can personally hold.

10-20-2009, 01:21 AM	#45
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,918	I am not trying to disprove anything.He ran Remingtons down,I just want verification to back his statements.Personal experience and researching the articles in books and on the net do verify that Rem,s are very popular actions in centerfire competition and what is found the most in the winners circle.This can be verified by putting centerfire rifle competition on your search and reading.You won't run out of reading. ,,,sam.

10-23-2009, 09:52 AM	#48
thebigitch62 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Port Orchard Wa Posts: 147	.300 remington ultra mag sendero. you'll hears lots of people saying it's a barrel burner it kicks like a mule, ammo is $65 a box, it cant do nothing a 30-06 can't do. this may or may-not be true, but when you shoot something it doesn't walk away.

10-23-2009, 11:10 AM	#51
Deep13 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 596	Savage model 12. Our club's range is limited to 200 yards, so I went with .223. I understand .223 is accurate to about 600 yards. For 700, I'd suggest .22-250 or .308. The model 12 has a heavy, crowned barrel, heavy action, heavy bolt, heavy laminated stock--did I mention it's heavy? The Savage Accutrigger is exceptional for an out-of-the-box unit. Since it is a bolt action, it can be easily cleaned. __________________ That which can be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.

10-23-2009, 11:29 AM	#52
338RUM Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD Posts: 1,025	now to ring out the last in long range accuracy form the 223 use 65 or 70 grain bullets they are really nice! __________________ diaper fetishist, gay ,neo Nazi ,slaves give me hope for the versatility of the human race. -Billy

10-23-2009, 11:41 AM	#54
338RUM Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD Posts: 1,025	one of the guys I shoot with and load for shoots 90's out of his but he has a 1-7" I think, one day when I got bored I tried them in my 223 WSSM that barrel has a 1-9" I didn't expect good accuracy but to my surprise they shot really good, I guess the velocity was enough to stabilize the bullet. __________________ diaper fetishist, gay ,neo Nazi ,slaves give me hope for the versatility of the human race. -Billy

10-24-2009, 10:31 PM	#57
R5CYA Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Bruno, Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 2,087	cyrano, you forgot to add that a "nagant" is a revolver and that someone who doesn't even know what a rifle is called is hardly in any position to report on it's advantages or disadvantages. __________________ Badges? We got no badges! i aint gotta show you no stinking badges!

10-25-2009, 09:43 AM	#58
dmsbandit Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: upstate New York Posts: 528	After all that fiddling and monkeying around, you still have a club if you insist on using a Mosin-Nagant. For probably less time and money that you'd be required and need to spend making the 'Nagant an Accurate Sporter rifle you can buy a Savage Long Range Hunter. With the accu-trigger, accu-stock, adjustable muzzle brake, adjustable cheek rest, and a match quality barrel chambered in 6.5x284 and a MSRP of under $700. AFter buying the Savage, you'd have a gun capable of killing anything up to Moose in size out to as far as you should be shooting, and would also be capable of WINNING 1000 yds matches. So while you waste time and money trying to make a 'Nagant something it wasn't meant to be, I and hundreds of thousands of others will just continue to buy guns DESIGNED to do the job we ask of them.

10-25-2009, 09:56 AM	#59
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,918	Dms:You live a very secure,(boring) life. ,,,sam. Last edited by samuel; 10-26-2009 at 01:26 AM.