.270 vs .308

thrillbilly · 10-26-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~deerslayer~

I own a .270 win. ive shot 4 deer with it and everyone dropped like a rock with 130gr bullets so there shouldnt be any searching for blood trails afterwards. even at 300 yards (which was the first deer i shot with it) they drop. if you shoot a deer with any 270 and it doesnt drop, take up soccer.

I love my .270 and it WILL cleanly kill deer and leave a heavy blood trail....BUUUUT NO caliber will "drop" deer everytime. Period. BTW, soccer is a fun sport...I suggest ya try it. You're giving us .270 boys a bad name LOL.

rimfirenut · 10-26-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrillbilly

I love my .270 and it WILL cleanly kill deer and leave a heavy blood trail....BUUUUT NO caliber will "drop" deer everytime. Period. BTW, soccer is a fun sport...I suggest ya try it. You're giving us .270 boys a bad name LOL.

I must agree... The 270 is not the perfect 1 shot,hit em anywhere killer, hell, there is nothing around that will do that, it is all in shot placement....
To compare the 270 to the 308 is like comparing apples to oranges, kind of senseless... If I had to pick one it would be the 270, only because I have a 30-06 and never felt the need for a 308, although the short action is nice...

G. Green · 10-26-2009, 07:44 PM

Soccer really is an athlete's sport, and Thrillbilly knows where-of he speaks. And it's good that one won't kill a deer deader than another.....if you kill'em too dead they don't go to heaven. And what would heaven be without.......well, you know.

DUGABOY1 · 10-28-2009, 02:35 PM

.270 vs .308?????????????????????

Given that choice the 308 would get my vote!

Having said that, I don't particularly like either one! The old 30-06 will out do either of them quite handily. That one is not my favorite either, but it is better ballisticlly than either of the two in question.

I would rather have a 280 Rem than a .270 because of a better selection of bullets, and because a .266 dia is the an island out in the middle of the cartridge ocean, all by it's self!

The .280's .284 dia is a shared diamether with hundreds of millitary, and hunting rounds all over the world. The big mistake Remington made( among many) was nameing the 280 Rem , first the 7mm express, and then 280 Rem, when a better marketing name for this fine cartridge for American shooters, would have been 7mm-06. Anything connected with theold 30-06 holds court over American hunters, and if it had been named 7mm-06 to start with, it would be far more popular today than it is. I find the 270 Win to be neither fish nor fowel.

The 308 has one thing in it's favor and that is the 30 cal designation, and the fact that it is the NATO round. The fact that is the NATO round, makes ammo available almost anyplace, but also has a draw back in many countries! (Mexico for instance) where the 308 is not allowed to be used by civilians because it is the cartridge used by thier millitary. In Mexico the 45 ACP can't even be carried by the police, for the same reason.

For deer, both whitetail, and muledeer my choice is a 243 with a 100 gr Hornady soft point, or a 100 gr Nosler partition pushed at 3000 fps. No need for a blood trail, just stick it in the boiler room, and gut him for transport home. Almost anything will kill deer cleanly if you can shoot.

The fact is if one has one rifle for North American hunting, it should be from .30 cal up. Most 30 calibers are accurate enough for long shots, and big enough to do a Yomans job on most things Amreican. It is a little light for "in your face" Big bears, but better than a 270 or smaller.

I'd like a minimum of three center fire rifles for North America. My choices would be a 243 Win chambered bolt rifle, and 280 Rem bolt rifle, and a 338 Win Mag bolt rifle all in CRF actions. To make that battery complete for the USA, and Canada, I'd have a 12 ga shotgun, and a .22 lr bolt rifle, and a good personal defense handgun chambered for 45 ACP.

Isn't it great that we have such a choice to choose from here in America? Hope that lasts with the current administration in power!

Archetype_wyo · 10-28-2009, 03:51 PM

I'd go with .270, I've personally seen it take deer and elk alike numerous times with 150gr Rem Core-Lokts. Ruger M77 MKII Stainless with Ruger Synthetic Stock.

samuel · 10-28-2009, 07:09 PM

Well!We got that settled and soccer won by a running mile! ,,,sam.

toolman · 10-28-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUGABOY1

.270 vs .308?????????????????????

Given that choice the 308 would get my vote!

Having said that, I don't particularly like either one! The old 30-06 will out do either of them quite handily. That one is not my favorite either, but it is better ballisticlly than either of the two in question.

I would rather have a 280 Rem than a .270 because of a better selection of bullets, and because a .266 dia is the an island out in the middle of the cartridge ocean, all by it's self!

The .280's .284 dia is a shared diamether with hundreds of millitary, and hunting rounds all over the world. The big mistake Remington made( among many) was nameing the 280 Rem , first the 7mm express, and then 280 Rem, when a better marketing name for this fine cartridge for American shooters, would have been 7mm-06. Anything connected with theold 30-06 holds court over American hunters, and if it had been named 7mm-06 to start with, it would be far more popular today than it is. I find the 270 Win to be neither fish nor fowel.

The 308 has one thing in it's favor and that is the 30 cal designation, and the fact that it is the NATO round. The fact that is the NATO round, makes ammo available almost anyplace, but also has a draw back in many countries! (Mexico for instance) where the 308 is not allowed to be used by civilians because it is the cartridge used by thier millitary. In Mexico the 45 ACP can't even be carried by the police, for the same reason.

For deer, both whitetail, and muledeer my choice is a 243 with a 100 gr Hornady soft point, or a 100 gr Nosler partition pushed at 3000 fps. No need for a blood trail, just stick it in the boiler room, and gut him for transport home. Almost anything will kill deer cleanly if you can shoot.
Isn't it great that we have such a choice to choose from here in America? Hope that lasts with the current administration in power!

I'm not trying to bust your balls, but there are a few things in your post that need to be addressed.
While the .270 is based on the '06 case, it's a totally different cartridge with different properties, ie: it is more of a small varmint-up to-elk cartridge where the '06 is more comfortable in the deer-to-moose range, with the advantage of heavier bullets. Either cartridge can perform outside of it's ideal parameters, but they're both excellent on mid-sized game, as is the .308.

As far as the .280 Rem-it started life as the 7mm-06, evolved to the 7mm Express, and finally, the .280 Remington. It's a fine round for a near-identical
brother to the .270. Yes, it has a slight ballistic adavantage at the cost of more powder, more expensive bullets, and less common factory ammo.

FWIW, the .277 was just adopted as the latest cal. of choice for the U.S. military in the form of the 6.8 SPC, to my knowledge, there are
no .284 cals. in current military use, but I may be wrong.

moosemike · 10-29-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolman

I'm not trying to bust your balls, but there are a few things in your post that need to be addressed.
While the .270 is based on the '06 case, it's a totally different cartridge with different properties, ie: it is more of a small varmint-up to-elk cartridge where the '06 is more comfortable in the deer-to-moose range, with the advantage of heavier bullets. Either cartridge can perform outside of it's ideal parameters, but they're both excellent on mid-sized game, as is the .308.

As far as the .280 Rem-it started life as the 7mm-06, evolved to the 7mm Express, and finally, the .280 Remington. It's a fine round for a near-identical
brother to the .270. Yes, it has a slight ballistic adavantage at the cost of more powder, more expensive bullets, and less common factory ammo.

FWIW, the .277 was just adopted as the latest cal. of choice for the U.S. military in the form of the 6.8 SPC, to my knowledge, there are
no .284 cals. in current military use, but I may be wrong.

I've seen original Remington 740 Woodsmasters and they are stamped "280 Remington" not 7mm-06 or 7mm Remington express. And these were the first of the .280's so you're both wrong.

samuel · 10-29-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosemike

I've seen original Remington 740 Woodsmasters and they are stamped "280 Remington" not 7mm-06 or 7mm Remington express. And these were the first of the .280's so you're both wrong.

As a wildcat it was called the 7mm-06 and 7mm express.When Remington first came out with it they called it the .280 Remington when introduced in 1957 and later renamed it the 7mm Express Remington in 1979 to get away from the .270 Win.which had been on the market 32yrs longer and was very popular.This caused confusion with the 7mmRem mag so they changed back to .280rem in 1981.The .280rem has always had the ballistic advantage over the .270win because of slightly higher SD and BC #,s.It had a SAAMI spec of 47/48,000 CUP compared to the .270win at 50/51,000 CUP.Altho ballistics are similar in factory loads,when handloaded for bolt action rifles with longer barrels to pressures similar to the .270win, the .280 excedes the .270win considerably(dont know how to say this,"noticably"?) and just about equals the .30-06 using bullets up to 180gr.From there on out the .30-06 takes over. ,,,sam.

AllAlaskan · 10-29-2009, 01:22 PM

All I have to say is that when the gun stores are allout of ammo i can ALWAYS find .270 when .308 is out

hence part of the reasen I bought my .270

Lobo0311 · 10-29-2009, 01:53 PM

.308 all the way ( I really dont care either way I just like to argue, my personal preferance for deer is my .30-30).

dls56 · 11-02-2009, 09:32 PM

A little late jumping in but here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I have both calibers and a few others. For me it's akin to blonds, brunettes, and red heads they all hold a sweet spot. Either will get it done, it's always shot placement once you get into a caliber capable enough.
Right now my .308 is shooting lights out 1/2 MOA at 200 with 168 grain A-Max and the .270 is right at MOA at 200 with 130 grain core-loks.
I have some boat-tail bullets for the .270 that can almost keep up with the .308 though. Heck, I love deer season.

deadzero · 11-03-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuel

As a wildcat it was called the 7mm-06 and 7mm express.When Remington first came out with it they called it the .280 Remington when introduced in 1957 and later renamed it the 7mm Express Remington in 1979 to get away from the .270 Win.which had been on the market 32yrs longer and was very popular.This caused confusion with the 7mmRem mag so they changed back to .280rem in 1981.The .280rem has always had the ballistic advantage over the .270win because of slightly higher SD and BC #,s.It had a SAAMI spec of 47/48,000 CUP compared to the .270win at 50/51,000 CUP.Altho ballistics are similar in factory loads,when handloaded for bolt action rifles with longer barrels to pressures similar to the .270win, the .280 excedes the .270win considerably(dont know how to say this,"noticably"?) and just about equals the .30-06 using bullets up to 180gr.From there on out the .30-06 takes over. ,,,sam.

Thanks sam.
you filled in some things there I didn't know about. aparently there was an extra "flip-flop" in there I was unaware of. I didn't know it was first introduced as the 280, I was only aware of the change later on. I knew they did not introduce it as the 7mm-06 because of possible confusion with the 7mm-08. seems there has always been confusion, even from the begining, surrounding this fine caliber.

Starting at the muzzle both calibers are fairly close. but like you said, the SD and BC make the 280 a clear winner at distance. when looking at Remington's ballistic data below, what starts as a 40 fps difference at muzzle, turns into 300+ fps difference at 500 yds.

Remington.com - Products - Ammunition - Ballistics

DUGABOY1 · 11-03-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuel

As a wildcat it was called the 7mm-06 and 7mm express.When Remington first came out with it they called it the .280 Remington when introduced in 1957 and later renamed it the 7mm Express Remington in 1979 to get away from the .270 Win.which had been on the market 32yrs longer and was very popular.This caused confusion with the 7mmRem mag so they changed back to .280rem in 1981.The .280rem has always had the ballistic advantage over the .270win because of slightly higher SD and BC #,s.It had a SAAMI spec of 47/48,000 CUP compared to the .270win at 50/51,000 CUP.Altho ballistics are similar in factory loads,when handloaded for bolt action rifles with longer barrels to pressures similar to the .270win, the .280 excedes the .270win considerably(dont know how to say this,"noticably"?) and just about equals the .30-06 using bullets up to 180gr.From there on out the .30-06 takes over. ,,,sam.

Samuel, I stand corrected! This is what one gets for relying on a 73 yr old memory , instead of opening a book!

You are absolutely correct It was 280 Rem from 1957 to 1979, and for one year it was called the 7mm Rem Express in 1979 and 1980, then changed back to 280 Rem. Both the 270, and the 280 (and 7mm Exp) are all made on the 06 case. As you say the difference is in SD, and chamber pressure and a better selection of bullets over the .270.
IMO, it would have sold better if they had taken the 7mm-06 wildcat name to start with, and left it at that.

The 7mm-08 is as the name implies a 7mm on a .308 case, and is a different cartridge all together.

In any event all three are good cartridges in a the right rifle, with the right handloads, shot by a man who knows his rifle! Still of the two suggested at the begining my choice would stll be the .308 Win. But neither of them is my favorite chambering, for anything but the 280 Rem comes close!

........................................

10-28-2009, 02:35 PM	#44
DUGABOY1 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 98	.270 vs .308????????????????????? Given that choice the 308 would get my vote! Having said that, I don't particularly like either one! The old 30-06 will out do either of them quite handily. That one is not my favorite either, but it is better ballisticlly than either of the two in question. I would rather have a 280 Rem than a .270 because of a better selection of bullets, and because a .266 dia is the an island out in the middle of the cartridge ocean, all by it's self! The .280's .284 dia is a shared diamether with hundreds of millitary, and hunting rounds all over the world. The big mistake Remington made( among many) was nameing the 280 Rem , first the 7mm express, and then 280 Rem, when a better marketing name for this fine cartridge for American shooters, would have been 7mm-06. Anything connected with theold 30-06 holds court over American hunters, and if it had been named 7mm-06 to start with, it would be far more popular today than it is. I find the 270 Win to be neither fish nor fowel. The 308 has one thing in it's favor and that is the 30 cal designation, and the fact that it is the NATO round. The fact that is the NATO round, makes ammo available almost anyplace, but also has a draw back in many countries! (Mexico for instance) where the 308 is not allowed to be used by civilians because it is the cartridge used by thier millitary. In Mexico the 45 ACP can't even be carried by the police, for the same reason. For deer, both whitetail, and muledeer my choice is a 243 with a 100 gr Hornady soft point, or a 100 gr Nosler partition pushed at 3000 fps. No need for a blood trail, just stick it in the boiler room, and gut him for transport home. Almost anything will kill deer cleanly if you can shoot. The fact is if one has one rifle for North American hunting, it should be from .30 cal up. Most 30 calibers are accurate enough for long shots, and big enough to do a Yomans job on most things Amreican. It is a little light for "in your face" Big bears, but better than a 270 or smaller. I'd like a minimum of three center fire rifles for North America. My choices would be a 243 Win chambered bolt rifle, and 280 Rem bolt rifle, and a 338 Win Mag bolt rifle all in CRF actions. To make that battery complete for the USA, and Canada, I'd have a 12 ga shotgun, and a .22 lr bolt rifle, and a good personal defense handgun chambered for 45 ACP. Isn't it great that we have such a choice to choose from here in America? Hope that lasts with the current administration in power! __________________ ,,,,,,,,,Mac >>>===(x)===> Double rifles rule, all others just burn powder

10-28-2009, 03:51 PM	#45
Archetype_wyo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Buffalo, Wyo Posts: 1,731	I'd go with .270, I've personally seen it take deer and elk alike numerous times with 150gr Rem Core-Lokts. Ruger M77 MKII Stainless with Ruger Synthetic Stock. __________________ The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun. —Patrick Henry

10-29-2009, 01:22 PM	#50
AllAlaskan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In HOT North East Texas Missing COLD South Central Alaska Posts: 1,553	All I have to say is that when the gun stores are allout of ammo i can ALWAYS find .270 when .308 is out hence part of the reasen I bought my .270 __________________ Charlie The *Crazy* Alaskan

10-29-2009, 01:53 PM	#51
Lobo0311 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northeast Kansas Posts: 633	.308 all the way ( I really dont care either way I just like to argue, my personal preferance for deer is my .30-30). __________________ If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

10-26-2009, 07:44 PM	#43
G. Green Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NE OK Posts: 464	Soccer really is an athlete's sport, and Thrillbilly knows where-of he speaks. And it's good that one won't kill a deer deader than another.....if you kill'em too dead they don't go to heaven. And what would heaven be without.......well, you know.

10-28-2009, 07:09 PM	#46
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,918	Well!We got that settled and soccer won by a running mile! ,,,sam.

11-02-2009, 09:32 PM	#52
dls56 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: VA Posts: 39	A little late jumping in but here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I have both calibers and a few others. For me it's akin to blonds, brunettes, and red heads they all hold a sweet spot. Either will get it done, it's always shot placement once you get into a caliber capable enough. Right now my .308 is shooting lights out 1/2 MOA at 200 with 168 grain A-Max and the .270 is right at MOA at 200 with 130 grain core-loks. I have some boat-tail bullets for the .270 that can almost keep up with the .308 though. Heck, I love deer season.