Sight in in two shots

[travisg96]

Not sure if this is the right forum for this and it is something most of you already know but just got it in a email and thought I would share.
Travis

Understand "Two Shots to Sight In Theory" and Save Money and become a BETTER Shot!

Many of our customers have difficulty sighting in their firearms. Most of the used guns we buy are improperly sighted in. Most rifle scopes on the used rifles we purchase are improperly mounted. The sighting in process does not have to be a confusing or frustrating experience.

If you understand Two Shot Theory you will no longer wonder which way to move your rear sight or whether to move it up or down nor will you have to remember if the directions of the arrows on your scope move the point of impact or the scope cross-hairs. (experts will note an issue here but most shooters get very confused over this concept)

TWO SHOT SIGHTING IN IS ONLY POSSIBLE WITH VERY EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT. However understanding the concept, without buying the equipment, will take the mystery and confusion out of the process the next time you go to the range.

THE OBJECT OF SIGHTING IN IS TO GET THE LINE OF SIGHT TO INTERSECT THE LINE OF BULLET FLIGHT AT A TARGET AT A SPECIFIC DISTANCE. Look at the top picture of the SKS rifle. The only place that the bullet will strike the aiming point is where the two lines cross. THE TECHNIQUE OF SIGHTING IN IS TO AIM THE SIGHTS WHERE THE BULLETS ARE ALREADY STRIKING!

1. Put your rifle or pistol in a recoil sled ( remember you do not need to buy the equipment only understand the concept) and make sure it is fully secured with the cross hairs on the bull.
2. Bore Site it ( or have a gunsmith do it for you before you go to the range)
3. Fire round 1 (bottom Left Picture)
4. Adjust scope or sights so they aim directly at the bullet hole you just made (bottom center picture)
5. adjust the recoil sled so the rifle sights again aim at the Bull
6. Fire round two and drill the bulls-eye (bottom right picture)

Re-read the above several times and make sure you understand it. Forget everything else you think you know about sighting in and simply remember THE TECHNIQUE OF SIGHTING IN IS TO AIM THE SIGHTS WHERE THE BULLETS ARE ALREADY STRIKING! This concept works with rifles , pistols, iron sights,red dots , holographs and scopes.

Enjoy your next trip to the range and feel free to write and let me know if this information was helpful.

[Whootsinator]

Seems logical, if you have a way to keep the rifle rock solid while adjusting scope.

[GlockMeister]

You'll have to strap the rifle down as the second you pull the trigger, the rifle has moved.

I think a 3 shot group will give you a little room to play with and bring you that much closer to center then a two shot group. And unless the ammo cost is like $3, $4 $5 each and on up a round, I'll stick to that extra 3rd shot?

[skiking]

I use this method to sight my rifles in. It is much easier than shooting a bunch of 3 shot groups.

[DANA]

I use this method using my cleaning rack for sighting the crosshairs over the target hit. This is the same method Shepard Scopes use with a second dot to place over the hit and then moving the main crosshair over the dot . A very good method.

DANA

[samuel]

It is simple and works.You do not need to hold the rifle rock solid.You fire one shot aiming at a small (1") bullseye and then put the crosshairs back on the small bull,hold steady and put the crosshairs on the bullet hole.Your adjustments shouldn't turn that hard.The rifle should be boresighted first. ,,,sam.

[Mr. 22]

Another 2 shot method (the 'Standard Method?)' is to shoot at the center of the bull. VERY IMPORTANT - Make sure that one shot counts!!

Then by using your scope adjustments (i.e: ¼" clicks = .25" (¼") inches at 100 yards. At 50 yards ⅛", etc.) - adjust it in. Most targets are set at 1" rings so it is fairly easy to tell what direction and how much you have to adjust the scope to bring it in. If not sure - bring a ruler. So much Left or Right and so much Up or Down. -X- and -Y- directions (NOT straight-line distance).

Fire another round and you should be on the bull. If not, check if the scope is loose, etc. Some scopes of the 'inexpensive variety', need to be 'tapped' on the side to make sure the CH moves as it should. Also it is not a good idea to change directions with these. In other words, move the CH to the Right, then to the Left. There may be some 'slop' in the adjustments. Same advice with the above methods.

It is always a good idea to fire a minimum of a 3 shot group to see if any fine adjustments should be made (usually they do - slight). Remember - make 'em all count!

I know... this is the 'Normal Method'. Just covering the bases and going over a little scope adjustment 'etiquette' that some newbies may not be aware of. This is a teaching/learning forum. I try to do both.

[GotCoffee]

My dad taught me this method when I was first starting to shoot. Its surprising how many people dont understand this method. We just cut out a cardboard box to set the gun in (v-notches in box front and rear) if done right you dont need no lead sled or vice!

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Very good advice and it is the method I have always been taught to sigjht in. Take a shot then move your sights to the hole and you should be dead on.
Great for hunting when you only take a shot or two.
Target shooting sometimes heats up a barrel and you get warp. This tends to move your POI somewhat.

[FortyXDM]

Sam - Are you saying that "lefty loosy", righty tighty, doesn't necessarily work here ?

[samuel]

I guess it would depend on what direction the inclined plane was slanted.(for most it is never the direction they want to go.) ,,,sam.

[ArkansasHunter]

Originally Posted by samuel

It is simple and works.You do not need to hold the rifle rock solid.You fire one shot aiming at a small (1") bullseye and then put the crosshairs back on the small bull,hold steady and put the crosshairs on the bullet hole.Your adjustments shouldn't turn that hard.The rifle should be boresighted first. ,,,sam.

You took the words right out of my mouth Sam LOL

You know I know this but I never remember to sight in this way.

[Bart B.]

Travis, your idea's been around for decades. It does work, but it's best when one shoots from field positions (standing, kneeling, sitting or prone) without a rest. The reason's 'casuse shooting from a rest tends to result in a zero that's somewhat off to the side compared to field positions. The more recoil there is, the further off shooting from a rest will cause. If the rifle's fired in free recoil (untouched by people except for pinching the trigger to fire it, such as from a sled or machine rest) its zero using this method won't be the same as fired from a field position nor from a bench atop bags. Even .22 rimfire match/target rifles have enough recoil that when zeroed in machine rests have a different zero by 1 MOA or thereabouts when shot from the shoulder in any position.

I've compared zeros from 13 pound .308's and 8 pound .300 Win. Mags from shooting off bags atop a bench to standing and slung up prone. Zero's off the bench are 1 to 2 MOA to the side of the field positions. And both are off the side from a perfect bore sight or shooting from free recoil by a MOA or more.

This happens because the rifle moves in recoil while the bullet's going down the barrel. More recoil means more sideways movement. And that recoil force is against the shoulder which is to the side of the body's center of mass.

I get about a 1 MOA difference in windage zero between bench and field position with a .308 Win., about 2 MOA with a .300 Win. Mag. Others differences may be some other value, but there is a difference.

If you've ever bore sighted a large caliber double rifle, you would remember that both barrels' bore axis cross at about 15 to 20 yards (their muzzle centers are closer together than their breech centers). That crossing point's about an inch or more to the side of where the sights align (to the left of it for right handed shooters, right for left handed shooters). Those 12-pound monsters move that much before their 500+ grain bullets leave the barrel. They also move up in elevation quite a bit while the bullet's going down the barrel requiring a high front sight. Even handgun front sights' tops are higher above bore center than their rear sights to compensate for this same thing.

Note that regardless of how this 1- or 2-shot method's done, the accuracy of the result will be effected by how accurate one can call their shot as well as the accuracy of the rifle and ammo. If one can't call shots closer than 1 MOA and they've got a 1 MOA rifle and ammo, they can easily end up with a 1 to 2 MOA error in their results.

[samuel]

I suppose a super expert like you can fire a shot,put the crosshares back on the target,hold the rifle perfectly still,and turn the adjustment up or down and left or right and place the crosshares exactly on the bullet hole.But my body would fail me and the rifle would move.I can do it easily using a vice or sandbags,but standing,sitting,nealing,or prone is out for me.For me,it would turn out like trying to get 90+reloads out of one case. ,,,sam.

[Bart B.]

From the guy who doesn't spell "kneeling" and "crosshairs" correctly:

I suppose a super expert like you can fire a shot,put the crosshares back on the target,hold the rifle perfectly still,and turn the adjustment up or down and left or right and place the crosshares exactly on the bullet hole.But my body would fail me and the rifle would move.I can do it easily using a vice or sandbags,but standing,sitting,nealing,or prone is out for me.For me,it would turn out like trying to get 90+reloads out of one case. ,,,sam.

If your sight movements per click are known, you don't need to put the crosshairs back on the target; just measure the offset the bullet hole is from where you called the shot (it doesn't have to be dead center!!! and it never is for me) then crank the knobs and you're on.

But I don't think your knowledge of rifle shooting isn't up to figuring this out. Same for your knowledge of reloading. So the best you can do is lambast most everything I say to mask your ignorance. Be careful of your comback to this post, else you get recategorized to the dumb and/or stupid area. I think you're smarter than that. Too bad you're not willing to learn how some people do better in various areas of the shooting sports than you do.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

From the guy who doesn't spell "kneeling" and "crosshairs" correctly:If your sight movements per click are known, you don't need to put the crosshairs back on the target; just measure the offset the bullet hole is from where you called the shot (it doesn't have to be dead center!!! and it never is for me) then crank the knobs and you're on.

But I don't think your knowledge of rifle shooting isn't up to figuring this out. Same for your knowledge of reloading. So the best you can do is lambast most everything I say to mask your ignorance. Be careful of your comback to this post, else you get recategorized to the dumb and/or stupid area. I think you're smarter than that. Too bad you're not willing to learn how some people do better in various areas of the shooting sports than you do.

Thank you for the compelementary reply.I enjoy being like others in your mind.(stupid and can't spell.)So far what I have "lambasted" you about,I have proven you were wrong or exagerating.I admit you could meisure and adjust as stated but the method we were discussing was done from a rest,mainly because mere mortals would probably be shooting a 1"or 2' group from a rest and up to a 6" group off hand.Super shots like you claim to be might be able to shoot freestyle and meisure,but I doubt that it would work out too good for mere humans that shoot with mortal failings.Now,could you get back to working those computers and firing those big Naval guns?You really had me intrested.I never had any experience with that class. ,,,sam.

[FortyXDM]

Originally Posted by samuel

I guess it would depend on what direction the inclined plane was slanted.(for most it is never the direction they want to go.) ,,,sam.

This may well be true Sam, but the incline slant factor can also be mitigated to a large degree by adjusting the framistan prior to shooting. But this must be done carefully using a tangential equallator measured from the center of the dogen pin outward.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by FortyXDM

This may well be true Sam, but the incline slant factor can also be mitigated to a large degree by adjusting the framistan prior to shooting. But this must be done carefully using a tangential equallator measured from the center of the dogen pin outward.

Ol'Forty has compleyely lost it!Can anyone help? (I always just wet my finger,held it in the air,made a guess,and let "er fly! ,,,sam.

[Darth AkSarBen]

Originally Posted by GotCoffee

My dad taught me this method when I was first starting to shoot. Its surprising how many people dont understand this method. We just cut out a cardboard box to set the gun in (v-notches in box front and rear) if done right you dont need no lead sled or vice!

Done that too! Use a cardboard box for steady rifle rest when testing out hand loads. Put a little weight in the box and then you can level out the box with shims underneath.

[wunhunglo]

In normal iron sighted full bore Target Rifle shooting, the standard is usually two sighter shots then so many to count.
How difficult is it to fire two shots using the same aiming point, which should give you roughly the same POI, and then just adjust your sights accordingly??

Much cheaper way to do it as well, so my preferred method is: Two sighter shots to see where they fall, then adjust sights correspondingly!