What is the weakest link?

BattleRifleG3 · 01-05-2004, 08:44 PM

I was wondering what is usually the weakest link in gun design, ie the part which has the minimum factor of safety, ie the part which is most likely to break if, say, the chamber pressure is too high.

Particularly, I'm wondering about military bolt action rifles, though autos come to mind as well.

01-05-2004, 08:56 PM

BattleRifleG3 · 01-05-2004, 09:11 PM

Ok, I kinda meant catastrophically.

PAPA G · 01-05-2004, 10:32 PM

is the loose nut behind the trigger.

:nod:

MAX7.62 · 01-05-2004, 10:39 PM

Catastrophic would be chamber failure. Have you ever seen a firearm that has basically blown up? It ain't pretty. I found one time somewhere ont he net a photo of an M1A in good basic condition that had a questionable import surplus round blow it into splinters. It even showed a couple of pics of the shooter's bloodied hand - which was fortunatly for him under the magazine instead of gripping the forarm in the normal position - in which case he would have pretty much LOST said hand!
The closest I've been was playing around with loads in a .50 and managed to fracture the chamber and front of the reciever. Glad I noticed before I touched one more off! I'll see if I can find a link to those M1A pics. Also check out DS Arms website, they ran some pics of an aluminum recievered FAL that failed.

Basically it's like this - keep your weapon in proper maintained working condition, shoot good ammo, and if loading stick to the SAAMI charts and don't get too creative.
If you just HAVE to play around with loads, clamp the weapon down, tie a string to the trigger and step WAAAAAAY back!

MAX7.62 · 01-05-2004, 10:47 PM

Found it! http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb/762d2.html

Check that one out G3

MAX7.62 · 01-05-2004, 10:52 PM

Here's the original post - http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb.html

Is that catastophic enough?

toolman · 01-05-2004, 11:02 PM

The one I fear the most from mil-surps is a bolt lug failure. The thought of that bolt slamming through my right cheekbone isn't very appealing. I've experienced a ruptured primer in my m-39 that nearly broke my thumb. Ironically, this was with S&B ammo. I've never had a problem other than physical deformities in surplus ammo.

MAX7.62 · 01-05-2004, 11:06 PM

Got to this one - http://www.quarterbore.com/

Scroll down to "library" and click on "kabooms"

HEY, you wanted info buddy!

BattleRifleG3 · 01-06-2004, 12:17 AM

So you think it would be bolt lugs before barrel? Or each with about equal likelihood? I'm not looking to use screwy loads, rather to understand which part of the gun is overdesigned so I know what's sacrosanct. Part of engineering is figuring out how not to waste material and work. Also, if I wanted to freakishly convert something, I'd want to know what parts can stand to lose some and what parts are untouchable, ie rechambering a 7mm-08 for 284 Win and the like.

Shaun · 01-06-2004, 12:22 AM

I agree with Papa G its the loose nut behind the stock -- in all reality I don't trust mill surplus Machine gun ammo in the surplus rifles

toolman · 01-06-2004, 12:36 AM

I've heard and seen more reciever/bolt failures (mostly due to ammo probs.) than any others. A relative few were actually mechanical/metalurgical related. We all know not to shoot low number 03 Springfields, but how many others are lurking in the shadows? I never shy away from shooting them, but I always wonder about hastily built wartime guns.

Shaun · 01-06-2004, 12:56 AM

think arisaka -- these guns were built so bad no two can exchange parts like a mauser could

PAPA G · 01-06-2004, 01:03 AM

P.O. Ackley showed the Jap actions to be quite strong. but i wouldn't use a last ditch made.

01-05-2004, 08:44 PM	#1
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	What is the weakest link? I was wondering what is usually the weakest link in gun design, ie the part which has the minimum factor of safety, ie the part which is most likely to break if, say, the chamber pressure is too high. Particularly, I'm wondering about military bolt action rifles, though autos come to mind as well. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-05-2004, 08:56 PM	#2
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	extractors/ejectors ?

01-05-2004, 09:11 PM	#3
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Ok, I kinda meant catastrophically. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-05-2004, 10:32 PM	#4
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	MOST DANGEROUS PART............. is the loose nut behind the trigger. :nod:

01-05-2004, 10:39 PM	#5
MAX7.62 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Classified Posts: 934	Catastrophic would be chamber failure. Have you ever seen a firearm that has basically blown up? It ain't pretty. I found one time somewhere ont he net a photo of an M1A in good basic condition that had a questionable import surplus round blow it into splinters. It even showed a couple of pics of the shooter's bloodied hand - which was fortunatly for him under the magazine instead of gripping the forarm in the normal position - in which case he would have pretty much LOST said hand! The closest I've been was playing around with loads in a .50 and managed to fracture the chamber and front of the reciever. Glad I noticed before I touched one more off! I'll see if I can find a link to those M1A pics. Also check out DS Arms website, they ran some pics of an aluminum recievered FAL that failed. Basically it's like this - keep your weapon in proper maintained working condition, shoot good ammo, and if loading stick to the SAAMI charts and don't get too creative. If you just HAVE to play around with loads, clamp the weapon down, tie a string to the trigger and step WAAAAAAY back! __________________ The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING! I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!

01-05-2004, 10:47 PM	#6
MAX7.62 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Classified Posts: 934	http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb/762d2.html Found it! http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb/762d2.html Check that one out G3 __________________ The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING! I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!

01-05-2004, 10:52 PM	#7
MAX7.62 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Classified Posts: 934	Here's the original post - http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb.html Is that catastophic enough? __________________ The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING! I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!

01-05-2004, 11:02 PM	#8
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,582 Blog Entries: 22	The one I fear the most from mil-surps is a bolt lug failure. The thought of that bolt slamming through my right cheekbone isn't very appealing. I've experienced a ruptured primer in my m-39 that nearly broke my thumb. Ironically, this was with S&B ammo. I've never had a problem other than physical deformities in surplus ammo. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

01-05-2004, 11:06 PM	#9
MAX7.62 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Classified Posts: 934	Got to this one - http://www.quarterbore.com/ Scroll down to "library" and click on "kabooms" HEY, you wanted info buddy! __________________ The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING! I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!

01-06-2004, 12:17 AM	#10
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	So you think it would be bolt lugs before barrel? Or each with about equal likelihood? I'm not looking to use screwy loads, rather to understand which part of the gun is overdesigned so I know what's sacrosanct. Part of engineering is figuring out how not to waste material and work. Also, if I wanted to freakishly convert something, I'd want to know what parts can stand to lose some and what parts are untouchable, ie rechambering a 7mm-08 for 284 Win and the like. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-06-2004, 12:22 AM	#11
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	I agree with Papa G its the loose nut behind the stock -- in all reality I don't trust mill surplus Machine gun ammo in the surplus rifles __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-06-2004, 12:36 AM	#12
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,582 Blog Entries: 22	I've heard and seen more reciever/bolt failures (mostly due to ammo probs.) than any others. A relative few were actually mechanical/metalurgical related. We all know not to shoot low number 03 Springfields, but how many others are lurking in the shadows? I never shy away from shooting them, but I always wonder about hastily built wartime guns. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun! Last edited by toolman; 01-06-2004 at 12:40 AM.

01-06-2004, 12:56 AM	#13
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	think arisaka -- these guns were built so bad no two can exchange parts like a mauser could __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-06-2004, 01:03 AM	#14
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	P.O. Ackley showed the Jap actions to be quite strong. but i wouldn't use a last ditch made.