old-fashioned rifling machine

Choscura · 10-01-2005, 08:23 PM

I'd llike to know how to rifle barrels. I remember seeing something in an e-book a while back about how to go about this, but I'm afraid that I lost the file when I re-installed windows the last time- the book had something about carving riflings onto the outside of a log at the approxomate twist you'd want to put in the gun, the problem is I remember no details beyond that.

anyone here able to help?

and just for reference, NO I WILL NOT BE USING THIS TO MAKE MY OWN GUNS UNTIL I HAVE A FFL.

troy2000 · 10-01-2005, 09:53 PM

I don't know a !@#$ thing about the subject, but it definitely sounds interesting. I'll be keeping track of the thread.

Shaun · 10-01-2005, 11:36 PM

here you go

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/crown_120804/

Oxford · 10-02-2005, 10:11 AM

Shaun...that's an interesting article on Rifling...but I'll leave it to the pro's. :right:

BattleRifleG3 · 10-02-2005, 01:54 PM

You can make your own guns from scratch or from existing parts on unpapered homemade receivers with no federal restrictions (check state laws.) However, I do not believe you can ever sell them.

Shaun · 10-02-2005, 07:33 PM

that's right brg since you would need a manufacturers license.

rebel727 · 10-02-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choscura

I'd llike to know how to rifle barrels. I remember seeing something in an e-book a while back about how to go about this- the book had something about carving riflings onto the outside of a log at the approxomate twist you'd want to put in the gun,

A log? What were they rifling, a cannon? Didn't know rifled cannon barrels were ever hammer welded.

gmatov · 10-03-2005, 01:22 AM

200 years ago, mebbe this is the way they did it.
Today, the broach is designed to do the twist.
You make it with 1 in 48, it will turn 1 in 48.
200 years ago they cut 1 groove at a time.
Today, we cut even the Marlin "microgrooves" at one pull.

Cheers,

George

Choscura · 10-03-2005, 01:57 AM

so far george has the most relevant information.

now: for the theory on the log bit (re-constructed from half-remembered fragments of drawings).

the log was simply a guide to cut the grooves accurately (in effect, turn a rifled barrel inside out) so the groves are on the outside, and put it in a brace- so that the barrel is held steady, and the log his held steady, with a rod coming out of the log with some kind of cutting device on the end of it (for cutting the grooves). there would be two (or more) pegs that fit into the grooves, so that when the log is pushed, the rod goes into the barrel and starts cutting it away, but the grooves force the log to twist at the rate you want to rifle the barrel.

I'm not going to claim this is fact, it's probably quite a bit more complex than that, but thats basically how I remember it.

jerry · 10-03-2005, 07:37 AM

John Browning's familys home is in Nauvoo IL. (before they moved to Utah) In his dad's shop sits his rifling machine. It's as described. I posted a pic of it and other parts of the shop long ago, but can't find them now. Mabe next time by I can visit again.

http://www.beautifulnauvoo.com/site/.../attract_2.asp

FROSTY · 10-04-2005, 10:36 PM

In The old days, they carved a spindle in which a steel rod was attached that had a cutter on the end of it...A guide followed whatever rate of twist that the gunsmith had carved...One groove at a time. The old Foxfire books told how to do this.

gonzo454 · 05-01-2006, 02:55 PM

It is interesting that I found this...I have had an idea rattling around in my head for quite some time that seems (if I understand you correctly) to be a fairly similar idea. I am currently in the process of attempting to create a Solid Works model of the contraption I have in mind. With my model I should be able to do rifling, switch effortlessly between twist rates and have (I hope) a high degree of reliability that one is like the next and like the next and so on. However to be fair it will be a sizable machine easily 5 to 6 feet long and 2 to 3 feet wide…and after building the ridiculous thing I still have no idea what to use for a cutter, I assume some kind of button or broach but we will see. I am using some brain power though, whether I’m getting dumber as a result of my own idiotic thoughts is another question entirely.

Thrawn · 05-02-2006, 10:01 AM

ROTO forged rules when it comes to rifling, broached just kinda gets the job done.

gonzo454 · 05-02-2006, 08:15 PM

I’m not sure whether or not any one is interested, but my Solid Works rendition is making some progress, as soon as I have enough to be useful I will post the results it may take a while because I am working on it alone currently, but I can say this with some confidence.

This design will allow for rifling barrels from pistol to rifle (up to 36”), with clear ideas of the twist rate you are using from 6.5 to 10, as well as progressive twists. In addition I believe it will have the ability to button\broach cut, and cut single groves in a manner that makes it easy, even for those with little tooling skills. I truly think I have designed a machine that will make it relatively painless for any one with a little time and dedication to rifle their own barrel, the only area I am concerned is how close the tolerances will be from one barrel to the next…I truly want to create something WORTH taking the time to build.

In addition I have a question…what is the benefit of progressive twists???

Oxford · 05-02-2006, 09:52 PM

Here is a clear description of "progressive twist."

Quote:

Twist take two basic forms: equal or progressive. An equal twist has evenly spaced areas between the diagonally moving edges. A progressive twist has a progressive change between the spaced areas increasing in length from the first area to the last area.

http://www.lyttoncreek.com/twist.htm

Choscura · 06-27-2006, 03:46 PM

update on this, I found the (e) book again.

basically, you have a log cut with the length/twist of the rifling (whatever you want) and a brace that goes around it with six metal pegs cut into it (to fit into the six groves on the log). into the end of the log, exactly centered, you hammer a 1-meter piece of iron bar. on the end of the bar, you wrap two pieces of wood, one of which has the bit in it (a file or a hacksaw blade, or some other suitable cutting material).

this would be a bit of work to set up, but in a situation such as I'm in- teaching basically dirt-poor tribal people to make bp guns for hunting- it's worth doing, or seems like it.

10-01-2005, 08:23 PM	#1
Choscura Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: idaho (temporarily) Posts: 25	old-fashioned rifling machine I'd llike to know how to rifle barrels. I remember seeing something in an e-book a while back about how to go about this, but I'm afraid that I lost the file when I re-installed windows the last time- the book had something about carving riflings onto the outside of a log at the approxomate twist you'd want to put in the gun, the problem is I remember no details beyond that. anyone here able to help? and just for reference, NO I WILL NOT BE USING THIS TO MAKE MY OWN GUNS UNTIL I HAVE A FFL.

10-01-2005, 11:36 PM	#3
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,619 Images: 1	here you go http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/crown_120804/ __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

10-02-2005, 10:11 AM	#4
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,094 Blog Entries: 4	Shaun...that's an interesting article on Rifling...but I'll leave it to the pro's. :right: __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

10-02-2005, 01:54 PM	#5
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,452 Images: 13	You can make your own guns from scratch or from existing parts on unpapered homemade receivers with no federal restrictions (check state laws.) However, I do not believe you can ever sell them. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

10-02-2005, 07:33 PM	#6
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,619 Images: 1	that's right brg since you would need a manufacturers license. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

10-01-2005, 09:53 PM	#2
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,014 Images: 9	I don't know a !@#$ thing about the subject, but it definitely sounds interesting. I'll be keeping track of the thread.

10-03-2005, 01:22 AM	#8
gmatov Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 38	200 years ago, mebbe this is the way they did it. Today, the broach is designed to do the twist. You make it with 1 in 48, it will turn 1 in 48. 200 years ago they cut 1 groove at a time. Today, we cut even the Marlin "microgrooves" at one pull. Cheers, George

10-03-2005, 01:57 AM	#9
Choscura Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: idaho (temporarily) Posts: 25	so far george has the most relevant information. now: for the theory on the log bit (re-constructed from half-remembered fragments of drawings). the log was simply a guide to cut the grooves accurately (in effect, turn a rifled barrel inside out) so the groves are on the outside, and put it in a brace- so that the barrel is held steady, and the log his held steady, with a rod coming out of the log with some kind of cutting device on the end of it (for cutting the grooves). there would be two (or more) pegs that fit into the grooves, so that when the log is pushed, the rod goes into the barrel and starts cutting it away, but the grooves force the log to twist at the rate you want to rifle the barrel. I'm not going to claim this is fact, it's probably quite a bit more complex than that, but thats basically how I remember it.

10-03-2005, 07:37 AM	#10
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11,193 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	John Browning's familys home is in Nauvoo IL. (before they moved to Utah) In his dad's shop sits his rifling machine. It's as described. I posted a pic of it and other parts of the shop long ago, but can't find them now. Mabe next time by I can visit again. http://www.beautifulnauvoo.com/site/.../attract_2.asp __________________ Joe the plumber is screwed

10-04-2005, 10:36 PM	#11
FROSTY Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 39	In The old days, they carved a spindle in which a steel rod was attached that had a cutter on the end of it...A guide followed whatever rate of twist that the gunsmith had carved...One groove at a time. The old Foxfire books told how to do this.

05-01-2006, 02:55 PM	#12
gonzo454 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 111	It is interesting that I found this...I have had an idea rattling around in my head for quite some time that seems (if I understand you correctly) to be a fairly similar idea. I am currently in the process of attempting to create a Solid Works model of the contraption I have in mind. With my model I should be able to do rifling, switch effortlessly between twist rates and have (I hope) a high degree of reliability that one is like the next and like the next and so on. However to be fair it will be a sizable machine easily 5 to 6 feet long and 2 to 3 feet wide…and after building the ridiculous thing I still have no idea what to use for a cutter, I assume some kind of button or broach but we will see. I am using some brain power though, whether I’m getting dumber as a result of my own idiotic thoughts is another question entirely.

05-02-2006, 10:01 AM	#13
Thrawn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Okeefenokee Posts: 1,618 Images: 6	ROTO forged rules when it comes to rifling, broached just kinda gets the job done.

05-02-2006, 08:15 PM	#14
gonzo454 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 111	I’m not sure whether or not any one is interested, but my Solid Works rendition is making some progress, as soon as I have enough to be useful I will post the results it may take a while because I am working on it alone currently, but I can say this with some confidence. This design will allow for rifling barrels from pistol to rifle (up to 36”), with clear ideas of the twist rate you are using from 6.5 to 10, as well as progressive twists. In addition I believe it will have the ability to button\broach cut, and cut single groves in a manner that makes it easy, even for those with little tooling skills. I truly think I have designed a machine that will make it relatively painless for any one with a little time and dedication to rifle their own barrel, the only area I am concerned is how close the tolerances will be from one barrel to the next…I truly want to create something WORTH taking the time to build. In addition I have a question…what is the benefit of progressive twists???

06-27-2006, 03:46 PM	#16
Choscura Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: idaho (temporarily) Posts: 25	update on this, I found the (e) book again. basically, you have a log cut with the length/twist of the rifling (whatever you want) and a brace that goes around it with six metal pegs cut into it (to fit into the six groves on the log). into the end of the log, exactly centered, you hammer a 1-meter piece of iron bar. on the end of the bar, you wrap two pieces of wood, one of which has the bit in it (a file or a hacksaw blade, or some other suitable cutting material). this would be a bit of work to set up, but in a situation such as I'm in- teaching basically dirt-poor tribal people to make bp guns for hunting- it's worth doing, or seems like it.