H&R 45 long colt .410 survival rifle NEED INFO

roopoo77 · 06-25-2009, 06:40 AM

H&R 45 long colt .410 survival rifle
Does anybody no what this the max pressures for this rifle? can you load it as high as a ruger, freedom or T/C? load data link. Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com there is separate loads for standard loads & ruger, freedom or T/C. I am using ADI 2205 which is really the only powder brand easy to get your hands on in Australia. ADI 2205 is the same as IMR 4227 or Hodgdon H4227 / H110. 20 grains of ADI 2205 with a 230 copper bullet leaves on hell of a powder trail down the barell. I would like to increase the powder charge but I need to know how much pressure the gun can handle. Any info would be much appreciated.

texnmidwest · 06-25-2009, 07:48 AM

The best advice I can give you is to call H&R and ask them. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that it is never a good idea to push the pressures to max. Getting it wrong can cause serious injury or death. JMHO,

oldjarhead · 06-25-2009, 08:09 AM

I second the above.
Most rifles are designed for the standard load which is normally below the actual pressure a rifle can with stand. Since most max loads given in a reloading guide are set for less than max allowable chamber pressure for that given load you should be able to use the max load data listed for the given cartridge.
I would not, and do not, recommend exceeding the max data given in the reloading guide. Best to use your brain than loose your brain over a few excess grains of powder.

rcsteele · 07-12-2009, 01:58 AM

Just remember that the 45/410 HR Combo is based on the SHOTGUN receiver and not the Handi RIFLE receiver. You cannot put the rifle barrels on the 45/410... you can put on other shotgun barrels or the 357 or the 44 mag barrels only...

If you want to use the 223 or 308 barrels the best approach is to purchase the 223 Survivor and order the extra 45/410 barrel....(you have to send in the rifle to have it fitted...) In this way you have a receiver that will take any of the handi-rifle barrels...or shotgun barrels....

Also remember that the chamber length allows 3" 410 shells so it is about 3.5" long (to accommodate the crimp opening up on a 3" shell) When you use a 45 Colt shell it must transverse this 2" gap before it engages the rifling..

If anyone has a solution to this problem I would like to hear it.
I would imagine that this will lead to some inherent inaccuracy of this little rifle when using the 45 LC rounds....

All in all... a very flexible and useful system though...

Dakoma · 07-12-2009, 04:18 AM

They make a 45 Long Colt Carbine and looking at the catalog it is on the same page as the Buffalo Clasic 45/70 but does not tell which reciever used SB1 or SB2.The SB2 is for higher presure cartridges,going to the page where your Survival 410/45 Colt it shows a SB1 reciever and they also show the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum Handi Rifle made on the SB1 reciever but any combo barrels can only be shotgun barrels.Are you confused yet? Seems that the 44 Mag.would be built on the higher presure reciever, but not.I think I would give them a call and get your information from them.Have been thinking about the 44 Magnum and haveing a 357 Mag.barrel made,could also shoot 38 Spl. and 44Spl.and at close ranges would take Deer verry easy.

petemi · 07-17-2009, 11:43 AM

I believe the .357 mag and .44 mag are on SB1 frames and the .45LC carbine is on a SB2.

If you get a .357 magnum and ream it to .357 maximum, it will shoot max, mag and .38s and you won't need the .44 mag. I have all three .357 Max and Mag and .44 mag Handis, and all I really need is the Maximum.

Pete

Dakoma · 07-19-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petemi

I believe the .357 mag and .44 mag are on SB1 frames and the .45LC carbine is on a SB2.

If you get a .357 magnum and ream it to .357 maximum, it will shoot max, mag and .38s and you won't need the .44 mag. I have all three .357 Max and Mag and .44 mag Handis, and all I really need is the Maximum.

Pete

Have you got their new catalog? They are making their 357 and 44 Magnum on the low presure reciever SB1 the SB2 is for high presure cartridges.Now if you have a rifle with the SB2 reciever for higher presure cartridges then you can have barrels through their barrel program made to fit the SB2 reciever and I understand the diference in the two recievers.The original post was about the Surviver 410/45Long Colt which is a shotgun reciever or SB1 and load data for it to fire 45 Long Colt.Yes I have owned a few of these rifles,and they have droped the 38-55 barrel and on a SB2 reciever could handle the 375 Winchester,the 357 Maximum is a fine cartridge also and could shoot 38 Spl. and 357 Mag.also but dont think I would do it on a SB1 Reciever.

jeepmann1 · 08-02-2009, 07:21 AM

Check out the Graybeard Outdoors Forum it has a section devoted to H&R. Best source of knowledge I have found on them.
The 45-410 has been played with a lot some folks have wildcatted 303 Brit,444 Marlin and 9.3 X 74 brass to overcome the large jump of the 45 cal bullets.By using loads within the pressure limits of the SB1 barrel & frame they have achieved some impressive results !

COYOTE10663 · 09-19-2009, 10:21 AM

1) Why in the tomb-thumb don't they just use ONE ( SB2 ) reciever !!!!!!!!! Would make things sooooooooooo much easyer! And in the long run would be cheaper for them to boot! Only one set of spesifications to deal with!

2) When I called them the young lady at H&R, said they could put a .357 or .45 Colt bbl. on my Survivor shotgun frame, but not the .44 MAG. From what you all are saying, I am getting the impression that she got her calibers confused & told me wrong?

3) The recoil of the .44 Mag and the .243 are verry similar, so why is it ok to run a .44 and yet not the .243? In my younger dumber days before I had access to the interent, I was goofing off one night and swapped the barrells around on my used .410 and my (At that time) nearly new .243. They swapped perfectly. Thank God I never shot it!

4) Why is it that they require you to ship your gun off for the barrell to be "fitted"????? This is BS !!! T/C barells are all built to the same spec down to .0005"
So to me it sounds like H&R is saying " Were too stupid / too sloppy / too lazy to build the gun right to start with"

Dont get me wrong, I Love, have owned, and will probabally own many more in the future. In particular, the Ultrs Varmiter (Lminated wodd thumbhole stock) and the Buffalo Classic 45-70 Gvt. are on my "must have" list.

But for now, I am working on a "brush buster".
I want to take a .44 Mag bbl and have it cut down to 17", top it off with a 1x dot sight or a 2.5x compact scope. This will be going on the existing 20ga Survivor Shotgun that I have.

petemi · 10-05-2009, 02:44 PM

Just for clarification, My .357 Maximum and former .44 Mag Handis (Now .445 Super Mag) are on SB2 frames. I have another .357 Magnum on a SB1 Frame. A lot of people on the Graybeard forum shoot the .357 Maximum on SB1 frames. I can't say I'm in total agreement with that. I'm chopping my .357 mag Handi to 16.5 inches, putting a Red Dot on it, reaming it to Maximum and putting it on a youth stock for a truck gun. It will then go on a SB2 frame.

Pete

Dakoma · 10-05-2009, 11:01 PM

There may be some hand fitting on some of the barrels and maybe they test them with a stiff load not sure but like mentioned one SB2 reciever for everything would solve alot of confusion.I would also like to see them make a metal triggerguard instead of plastic,aluminum would be cheap and a whole lot better than plastic and a little black bake on paint would take alot of punishment.

06-25-2009, 06:40 AM	#1
roopoo77 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1	H&R 45 long colt .410 survival rifle NEED INFO H&R 45 long colt .410 survival rifle Does anybody no what this the max pressures for this rifle? can you load it as high as a ruger, freedom or T/C? load data link. Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com there is separate loads for standard loads & ruger, freedom or T/C. I am using ADI 2205 which is really the only powder brand easy to get your hands on in Australia. ADI 2205 is the same as IMR 4227 or Hodgdon H4227 / H110. 20 grains of ADI 2205 with a 230 copper bullet leaves on hell of a powder trail down the barell. I would like to increase the powder charge but I need to know how much pressure the gun can handle. Any info would be much appreciated.

06-25-2009, 07:48 AM	#2
texnmidwest Some People's kids.... Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 6,978	The best advice I can give you is to call H&R and ask them. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that it is never a good idea to push the pressures to max. Getting it wrong can cause serious injury or death. JMHO, __________________ never pass up a bathroom, never waste a ** , and never trust a fart.

06-25-2009, 08:09 AM	#3
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MO Posts: 1,914	I second the above. Most rifles are designed for the standard load which is normally below the actual pressure a rifle can with stand. Since most max loads given in a reloading guide are set for less than max allowable chamber pressure for that given load you should be able to use the max load data listed for the given cartridge. I would not, and do not, recommend exceeding the max data given in the reloading guide. Best to use your brain than loose your brain over a few excess grains of powder. __________________ No war has ever been won by a politician!

07-12-2009, 01:58 AM	#4
rcsteele Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1	shotgun receiver in 45/410 Just remember that the 45/410 HR Combo is based on the SHOTGUN receiver and not the Handi RIFLE receiver. You cannot put the rifle barrels on the 45/410... you can put on other shotgun barrels or the 357 or the 44 mag barrels only... If you want to use the 223 or 308 barrels the best approach is to purchase the 223 Survivor and order the extra 45/410 barrel....(you have to send in the rifle to have it fitted...) In this way you have a receiver that will take any of the handi-rifle barrels...or shotgun barrels.... Also remember that the chamber length allows 3" 410 shells so it is about 3.5" long (to accommodate the crimp opening up on a 3" shell) When you use a 45 Colt shell it must transverse this 2" gap before it engages the rifling.. If anyone has a solution to this problem I would like to hear it. I would imagine that this will lead to some inherent inaccuracy of this little rifle when using the 45 LC rounds.... All in all... a very flexible and useful system though...

08-02-2009, 07:21 AM	#8
jeepmann1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2	H & r Check out the Graybeard Outdoors Forum it has a section devoted to H&R. Best source of knowledge I have found on them. The 45-410 has been played with a lot some folks have wildcatted 303 Brit,444 Marlin and 9.3 X 74 brass to overcome the large jump of the 45 cal bullets.By using loads within the pressure limits of the SB1 barrel & frame they have achieved some impressive results !

07-12-2009, 04:18 AM	#5
Dakoma Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southeast Tennessee Posts: 1,135	They make a 45 Long Colt Carbine and looking at the catalog it is on the same page as the Buffalo Clasic 45/70 but does not tell which reciever used SB1 or SB2.The SB2 is for higher presure cartridges,going to the page where your Survival 410/45 Colt it shows a SB1 reciever and they also show the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum Handi Rifle made on the SB1 reciever but any combo barrels can only be shotgun barrels.Are you confused yet? Seems that the 44 Mag.would be built on the higher presure reciever, but not.I think I would give them a call and get your information from them.Have been thinking about the 44 Magnum and haveing a 357 Mag.barrel made,could also shoot 38 Spl. and 44Spl.and at close ranges would take Deer verry easy.

07-17-2009, 11:43 AM	#6
petemi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Engadine, Upper Peninsula, MI Posts: 166	I believe the .357 mag and .44 mag are on SB1 frames and the .45LC carbine is on a SB2. If you get a .357 magnum and ream it to .357 maximum, it will shoot max, mag and .38s and you won't need the .44 mag. I have all three .357 Max and Mag and .44 mag Handis, and all I really need is the Maximum. Pete

09-19-2009, 10:21 AM	#9
COYOTE10663 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 160	1) Why in the tomb-thumb don't they just use ONE ( SB2 ) reciever !!!!!!!!! Would make things sooooooooooo much easyer! And in the long run would be cheaper for them to boot! Only one set of spesifications to deal with! 2) When I called them the young lady at H&R, said they could put a .357 or .45 Colt bbl. on my Survivor shotgun frame, but not the .44 MAG. From what you all are saying, I am getting the impression that she got her calibers confused & told me wrong? 3) The recoil of the .44 Mag and the .243 are verry similar, so why is it ok to run a .44 and yet not the .243? In my younger dumber days before I had access to the interent, I was goofing off one night and swapped the barrells around on my used .410 and my (At that time) nearly new .243. They swapped perfectly. Thank God I never shot it! 4) Why is it that they require you to ship your gun off for the barrell to be "fitted"????? This is BS !!! T/C barells are all built to the same spec down to .0005" So to me it sounds like H&R is saying " Were too stupid / too sloppy / too lazy to build the gun right to start with" Dont get me wrong, I Love, have owned, and will probabally own many more in the future. In particular, the Ultrs Varmiter (Lminated wodd thumbhole stock) and the Buffalo Classic 45-70 Gvt. are on my "must have" list. But for now, I am working on a "brush buster". I want to take a .44 Mag bbl and have it cut down to 17", top it off with a 1x dot sight or a 2.5x compact scope. This will be going on the existing 20ga Survivor Shotgun that I have. __________________ To be upset over the things you want & DO NOT have is to waste the things you DO have !

10-05-2009, 02:44 PM	#10
petemi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Engadine, Upper Peninsula, MI Posts: 166	Just for clarification, My .357 Maximum and former .44 Mag Handis (Now .445 Super Mag) are on SB2 frames. I have another .357 Magnum on a SB1 Frame. A lot of people on the Graybeard forum shoot the .357 Maximum on SB1 frames. I can't say I'm in total agreement with that. I'm chopping my .357 mag Handi to 16.5 inches, putting a Red Dot on it, reaming it to Maximum and putting it on a youth stock for a truck gun. It will then go on a SB2 frame. Pete Last edited by petemi; 10-05-2009 at 02:47 PM.

10-05-2009, 11:01 PM	#11
Dakoma Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southeast Tennessee Posts: 1,135	There may be some hand fitting on some of the barrels and maybe they test them with a stiff load not sure but like mentioned one SB2 reciever for everything would solve alot of confusion.I would also like to see them make a metal triggerguard instead of plastic,aluminum would be cheap and a whole lot better than plastic and a little black bake on paint would take alot of punishment.