Oops... Removing live primers

phoenix79 · 10-15-2007, 09:15 AM

New to reloading and I caught retarded. I accidentally loaded magnum primers into 7.62 tokarev brass.

Glad I found out before taking it to the range. However, now I have about 50 rounds of loaded ammo that needs to be dismantled. I know how to get the bullets and powder out, but what about the primers? Is there a safe way to do this? Could I load the brass with just the primers installed into the gun and fire them off? Or do I just chunk it and get more brass?

samuel · 10-15-2007, 09:40 AM

Pull your bullets,drop your powder charge one grain,put the bullet back in and they will be safe.You can remove bullet and powder and run the case through the resizing die punching the primer out and putting standard primers in and use the magnums over.They wont blow up.It takes a fast hit to excite the primer substance to ignite.But the simple way is reduce the powder charge.The mag.primers just increase the CUP pressure by about one grain.If you arent running max loads it would be safe to fire them anyway. sam.

phoenix79 · 10-15-2007, 09:59 AM

Thanks sam. I've been reading your posts for a while now and have great respect for your reloading experience.

lefty o · 10-15-2007, 12:20 PM

i pretty much agree with sam here. if you decide to deprime, wear safety glasses just in case.

toolman · 10-15-2007, 01:28 PM

What sam and lefty said! I bought some once-fired .30-06 brass on ebay last year that included a few cases that had been sized and primed. I was resizing them to 8x57 and wasn't sure what primers were installed, so I punched 'em all out on the press without a single incident. I had my glasses on just in case though..

Johnny_Revolver · 10-16-2007, 03:43 AM

I`ve done it, albeit very carefully while wearing eye protection.

I did not, re-use the primers. I got rid of them straight afterwards to avoid confusion and possible mishap.

jerry · 10-16-2007, 05:20 AM

Iv'e pushed them out as well.
If your not comfortable doing so, chamber them and fire them in your firearm. Then proceed as normal. Don't foreget to clean the gun a bit.

samuel · 10-16-2007, 06:20 PM

They advise against firing the primer alone as it pops back in the primer pocket and with no powder igniting to push it back in the fire and hot gasses go back and burn the face of the bolt and primer pocket. sam.

454PB · 10-17-2007, 11:39 PM

The few times I've had to decap live primers, I throw a heavy bath towel over the press in case one pops. I've never had one pop though.

If you've worked this load up from below and you know it's not a maximum load, I would just fire the rounds.

Falcon2 · 10-18-2007, 12:41 AM

The new site looks very nice,I was surprised when I logged on tonight.
I realy enjoy reading it each evening.
Thank You, Falcon2

jerry · 10-18-2007, 05:25 AM

Never really seen this gas issue firing a primer. I understand how the primer moves in and out of the pocket on firing. If there is no powder or projectile, there would not be a back pressure to back off the primer, then have the recoil push it back in. Electricity, water, escaping gasses follow the path of least resistance. I think the path of least resisitance in a cartridge with only a primer would be the primer hole. I'm interested in looking at this furhter. When I get home I'd like to cut some paper disc to put on the bolt face and fire some primers, seeing what the paper looks like.

samuel · 10-18-2007, 12:06 PM

Neither the articles I have read nor I say it will burn the paper or anything else.If the primer pocket is good and the headspace is adequate it shouldnt. What they meant was you can fire a lot of primers alone with no ill effect but if you get just one bad leaker it can and probably will score the bolt face.This happens anyway through normal firing.I just dont want to add to it by firing primers alone.If you do that is your choice. sam.

Cyrille · 10-18-2007, 12:20 PM

Had to "pull" my bullets and powder from fire-formed but not resized cases so they would chamber in my 45/70 but resized the cases with the live primers and simply reloaded the powder and bullets all set to go again.

2ndAmend.Sacred · 11-01-2007, 04:09 AM

I agree with most of the previous advice about removing live primers on your press, EXCEPT the belief that they won't ignite!!! Most of the time if you're careful & do it slowly, it won't, ---- but --- after doing it several times successfully, I did have one blow on me. Luckily, I had my safety glasses on & was not injured, but I felt real stupid, & after determining the depriming pin was blown off & not a piece to be found, I realized how fortunate I was. Other than the safety glasses, I would recommend, as another member previously suggested, to wrap a heavy towel around it before hand. Of course, the other options of removing a grain of powder, or firing the empty cases work also. Just wanted all to know that primers CAN ignite when removing with a decapper or resizing die on your press!!

samuel · 11-01-2007, 06:25 AM

Some people can get anything to go wrong.I knew a man that claimed he had a ml go off without a primer.Glad I am blessed with good luck.I have removed hundreds of live primers and never had one go off and used them over and they functioned properly. sam.

gunney_m · 11-01-2007, 06:33 AM

What they said.

Mooseman684 · 11-01-2007, 11:56 PM

For safety Sake , Soak em in water before punching out Live primers, They Can NOT ignite or explode when wet. I have fired a many a primed only case without damage to the rifle or handgun over the course of 30 + years...
Since the primer was crimped in as it was loaded, you do NOT want to reuse them as they may back out when fired in another case,or the anvil can fall off resulting in a primer that wont fire when re-used.
Rich

samuel · 11-02-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

For safety Sake , Soak em in water before punching out Live primers, They Can NOT ignite or explode when wet. I have fired a many a primed only case without damage to the rifle or handgun over the course of 30 + years...
Since the primer was crimped in as it was loaded, you do NOT want to reuse them as they may back out when fired in another case,or the anvil can fall off resulting in a primer that wont fire when re-used.
Rich

Have you personally ever had a live primer ignite when punched out?I never have.If they are "crimped" once they will be the second time.No "crimp"on any primer is ever going to stop the thousands of lbs pressure created when the powder is ignited.The seal is formed by the very gasses we are trying to create. And again have you personally ever had one "back out"when reused?How would you know if you always disable them so you cant reuse them?Since the firing of one primer does little damage and is virtually harmless you advise firing large numbers.I believe if one does a little damage as the experts say a lot will do a lot of damage.I have only told of my own personal experience.I have actually done what I tell about.I do not advise anyone to do anything they even think would be unsafe or harmful to themselves or their firearm.I admire most of your advise but as you have disputed my experience,I have a right to question your statements without proof to verify.As I stated,what I wrote was personal experience.If I believed anyone could or would be harmed in any way I would not have written it. sam.

Mooseman684 · 11-02-2007, 04:36 PM

Samuel,
I have loaded Hundreds of thousands of rounds over the past 30 years and Made my own ammo for Obsolete cartridges.
Yes I tried punching out live primers...One Primer going off Was all it took for me to wet them and de-activate the compound...It IS an Explosive that detonates by pressure or shock or heat! Demolition Training taught me more about handling powder , caps, HE,and Dynamite so I'm a stickler for Safety and My eyesight and fingers are so much more value to me than trying to save a few dollars worth of primers.
An Engineer in the Cartridge Dept. for Winchester and I discussed that very same issue while he was developing loads for the .338 WinMag. We were shooting together at Winchesters Range in East Alton,Illinois.He said NOT to reseat primers once they had been pressed in and out due to the loose fit that can occur in different Casings.This can allow High pressure Gas to blow By the primer sides back to the bolt Face. I Personally Have observed the ANVILS falling out of primers that were removed while Live/ but wet for safety sake.
He Is someone I trust that has knowledge due to it being his Daily Job and Experience. I have never reused primers because of that discussion and also because mine are destroyed before I punch em.
Primed Cases for test firing of a weapon or shooting Red Jets has been done for years by many a gunsmith where they may not be able to fire a live round. There is Not enough pressure developed with an open case and unplugged barrel to do anything but pop the primer, which I do when fitting firing pins and testing.
Get a grip Samuel. My comments were directed at Phoenix79's original post for his Info...Not yours.
You can play with fire and Take all the chances you want to in your life...I refuse to be an accident waiting to happen with mine...It only takes One Time !!!
Rich

samuel · 11-02-2007, 05:16 PM

Mooseman684:The original question was what to do about the mag primers and I advised reducing the powder charge.Somehow it got hijacked and punching live primers came up.I still believe I can do it safely and never had a bad experience doing it but also advised if anyone felt unsafe they shouldnt do it.I have used them over and the same as I would do with any primer if they felt loose I didnt use that case.A new primer felt loose on the same case.I too went through demo school in the service and later went to school at Austin Powder and have more than a passing knowledge of demolitions.The components in a primer(there are usually 7)are explosive but smokeless powder is not altho black powder is low yield explosive.I do not believe I advised anything unsafe,if I had felt it was the least bit unsafe I would never have said it.I admire and respect your posts and advise others to follow your advice.As to this one,I see no way the components in a primer(Icould give them out but then someone would be trying to duplicate them)can be excited enough to activate them especially from the inside pushing on the anville.If the anville falls out they are harmless unless struck severely or heated,and by the way heat or a hard blow will excite them whether they are wet or not.They probably wouldnt excite from a firing pin as they would be too flexible but a blow from a hammer can excite them. They are never safe until fired.Speaking of primers do you remember the days when all of us boys always had a pocket full of .22 shells or shotgun shells on us?Now that one mystifies me as to why none of us had any bad experiences with them.That was live primers with a powder charge on them. sam.

10-15-2007, 09:15 AM	#1
phoenix79 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 219	Oops... Removing live primers New to reloading and I caught retarded. I accidentally loaded magnum primers into 7.62 tokarev brass. Glad I found out before taking it to the range. However, now I have about 50 rounds of loaded ammo that needs to be dismantled. I know how to get the bullets and powder out, but what about the primers? Is there a safe way to do this? Could I load the brass with just the primers installed into the gun and fire them off? Or do I just chunk it and get more brass?

10-15-2007, 09:40 AM	#2
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	Pull your bullets,drop your powder charge one grain,put the bullet back in and they will be safe.You can remove bullet and powder and run the case through the resizing die punching the primer out and putting standard primers in and use the magnums over.They wont blow up.It takes a fast hit to excite the primer substance to ignite.But the simple way is reduce the powder charge.The mag.primers just increase the CUP pressure by about one grain.If you arent running max loads it would be safe to fire them anyway. sam. Last edited by samuel; 10-15-2007 at 09:45 AM.

10-15-2007, 01:28 PM	#5
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	What sam and lefty said! I bought some once-fired .30-06 brass on ebay last year that included a few cases that had been sized and primed. I was resizing them to 8x57 and wasn't sure what primers were installed, so I punched 'em all out on the press without a single incident. I had my glasses on just in case though.. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

10-16-2007, 03:43 AM	#6
Johnny_Revolver Gun Liker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,209 Blog Entries: 6	I`ve done it, albeit very carefully while wearing eye protection. I did not, re-use the primers. I got rid of them straight afterwards to avoid confusion and possible mishap. __________________ It`s a good life, provided you don`t weaken.

10-16-2007, 05:20 AM	#7
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,870 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	Iv'e pushed them out as well. If your not comfortable doing so, chamber them and fire them in your firearm. Then proceed as normal. Don't foreget to clean the gun a bit. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

10-15-2007, 09:59 AM	#3
phoenix79 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 219	Thanks sam. I've been reading your posts for a while now and have great respect for your reloading experience.

10-15-2007, 12:20 PM	#4
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,785	i pretty much agree with sam here. if you decide to deprime, wear safety glasses just in case.

10-16-2007, 06:20 PM	#8
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	They advise against firing the primer alone as it pops back in the primer pocket and with no powder igniting to push it back in the fire and hot gasses go back and burn the face of the bolt and primer pocket. sam.

10-17-2007, 11:39 PM	#9
454PB Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Helena, Mt. Posts: 42	The few times I've had to decap live primers, I throw a heavy bath towel over the press in case one pops. I've never had one pop though. If you've worked this load up from below and you know it's not a maximum load, I would just fire the rounds.

10-18-2007, 12:41 AM	#10
Falcon2 Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mich, Retired to Arizona Posts: 31	The new site looks very nice,I was surprised when I logged on tonight. I realy enjoy reading it each evening. Thank You, Falcon2

10-18-2007, 05:25 AM	#11
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,870 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	Never really seen this gas issue firing a primer. I understand how the primer moves in and out of the pocket on firing. If there is no powder or projectile, there would not be a back pressure to back off the primer, then have the recoil push it back in. Electricity, water, escaping gasses follow the path of least resistance. I think the path of least resisitance in a cartridge with only a primer would be the primer hole. I'm interested in looking at this furhter. When I get home I'd like to cut some paper disc to put on the bolt face and fire some primers, seeing what the paper looks like. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

10-18-2007, 12:06 PM	#12
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	Neither the articles I have read nor I say it will burn the paper or anything else.If the primer pocket is good and the headspace is adequate it shouldnt. What they meant was you can fire a lot of primers alone with no ill effect but if you get just one bad leaker it can and probably will score the bolt face.This happens anyway through normal firing.I just dont want to add to it by firing primers alone.If you do that is your choice. sam.

10-18-2007, 12:20 PM	#13
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,836	Had to "pull" my bullets and powder from fire-formed but not resized cases so they would chamber in my 45/70 but resized the cases with the live primers and simply reloaded the powder and bullets all set to go again.

11-01-2007, 04:09 AM	#14
2ndAmend.Sacred Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2	I agree with most of the previous advice about removing live primers on your press, EXCEPT the belief that they won't ignite!!! Most of the time if you're careful & do it slowly, it won't, ---- but --- after doing it several times successfully, I did have one blow on me. Luckily, I had my safety glasses on & was not injured, but I felt real stupid, & after determining the depriming pin was blown off & not a piece to be found, I realized how fortunate I was. Other than the safety glasses, I would recommend, as another member previously suggested, to wrap a heavy towel around it before hand. Of course, the other options of removing a grain of powder, or firing the empty cases work also. Just wanted all to know that primers CAN ignite when removing with a decapper or resizing die on your press!!

11-01-2007, 06:25 AM	#15
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	Some people can get anything to go wrong.I knew a man that claimed he had a ml go off without a primer.Glad I am blessed with good luck.I have removed hundreds of live primers and never had one go off and used them over and they functioned properly. sam.

11-01-2007, 06:33 AM	#16
gunney_m Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Muskogee,Ok Posts: 1,931	What they said.

11-01-2007, 11:56 PM	#17
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,637 Images: 2	For safety Sake , Soak em in water before punching out Live primers, They Can NOT ignite or explode when wet. I have fired a many a primed only case without damage to the rifle or handgun over the course of 30 + years... Since the primer was crimped in as it was loaded, you do NOT want to reuse them as they may back out when fired in another case,or the anvil can fall off resulting in a primer that wont fire when re-used. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

11-02-2007, 04:36 PM	#19
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,637 Images: 2	Samuel, I have loaded Hundreds of thousands of rounds over the past 30 years and Made my own ammo for Obsolete cartridges. Yes I tried punching out live primers...One Primer going off Was all it took for me to wet them and de-activate the compound...It IS an Explosive that detonates by pressure or shock or heat! Demolition Training taught me more about handling powder , caps, HE,and Dynamite so I'm a stickler for Safety and My eyesight and fingers are so much more value to me than trying to save a few dollars worth of primers. An Engineer in the Cartridge Dept. for Winchester and I discussed that very same issue while he was developing loads for the .338 WinMag. We were shooting together at Winchesters Range in East Alton,Illinois.He said NOT to reseat primers once they had been pressed in and out due to the loose fit that can occur in different Casings.This can allow High pressure Gas to blow By the primer sides back to the bolt Face. I Personally Have observed the ANVILS falling out of primers that were removed while Live/ but wet for safety sake. He Is someone I trust that has knowledge due to it being his Daily Job and Experience. I have never reused primers because of that discussion and also because mine are destroyed before I punch em. Primed Cases for test firing of a weapon or shooting Red Jets has been done for years by many a gunsmith where they may not be able to fire a live round. There is Not enough pressure developed with an open case and unplugged barrel to do anything but pop the primer, which I do when fitting firing pins and testing. Get a grip Samuel. My comments were directed at Phoenix79's original post for his Info...Not yours. You can play with fire and Take all the chances you want to in your life...I refuse to be an accident waiting to happen with mine...It only takes One Time !!! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

11-02-2007, 05:16 PM	#20
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	Mooseman684:The original question was what to do about the mag primers and I advised reducing the powder charge.Somehow it got hijacked and punching live primers came up.I still believe I can do it safely and never had a bad experience doing it but also advised if anyone felt unsafe they shouldnt do it.I have used them over and the same as I would do with any primer if they felt loose I didnt use that case.A new primer felt loose on the same case.I too went through demo school in the service and later went to school at Austin Powder and have more than a passing knowledge of demolitions.The components in a primer(there are usually 7)are explosive but smokeless powder is not altho black powder is low yield explosive.I do not believe I advised anything unsafe,if I had felt it was the least bit unsafe I would never have said it.I admire and respect your posts and advise others to follow your advice.As to this one,I see no way the components in a primer(Icould give them out but then someone would be trying to duplicate them)can be excited enough to activate them especially from the inside pushing on the anville.If the anville falls out they are harmless unless struck severely or heated,and by the way heat or a hard blow will excite them whether they are wet or not.They probably wouldnt excite from a firing pin as they would be too flexible but a blow from a hammer can excite them. They are never safe until fired.Speaking of primers do you remember the days when all of us boys always had a pocket full of .22 shells or shotgun shells on us?Now that one mystifies me as to why none of us had any bad experiences with them.That was live primers with a powder charge on them. sam. Last edited by samuel; 11-02-2007 at 05:23 PM.