question on brands - Page 2

roadie · 12-28-2007, 03:06 PM

What's a "cannalure"? I was told that crimping is a good idea for semi auto loads because of the movement in the mag, the crimp keeps the bullets from moving in the case while being bumped around during rapid fire. can crimping be a bad thing for pistol or rifle loads?

JOEGUN94 · 12-28-2007, 04:36 PM

thank you every one for the input, i traded my rcbs back , got the money, went with the hornady press and dies, just waiting on cabelas to deliver the rifle and pistol stuff, any way thank you,

samuel · 12-28-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadie

What's a "cannalure"? I was told that crimping is a good idea for semi auto loads because of the movement in the mag, the crimp keeps the bullets from moving in the case while being bumped around during rapid fire. can crimping be a bad thing for pistol or rifle loads?

It is a ring stamped around the bullet at about the right place for overall length.You seat the bullet so the mouth of the casing is in that ring and in your die is a ring that will crimp the mouth into the canilure.The casings must be trimmed to the exact same oal and the crimp is set for the very last of the ram stroke.When going back to bullets without canilures you must remember to set the die back up.Yes,it is a good idea to crimp self loaders. sam. I should have stated it is a good idea to crimp bullets when they are being used in a high capacity magazine where they may get whacked on the nose up to 29 times or more before they reach the firing chamber.

sunray · 12-29-2007, 12:30 AM

"...if I buy brand x do I have to buy brand x parts, ie dies etc..." Nope. The industry standard die thread is 7/8-14. Any press with that thread will take any dies of that thread. Just like any other threaded part.
"...traded my rcbs back..." You've traded like for like except for RCBS' legendary customer service. They will fix any problems with their stuff with a phone call no questions asked other than your mailing address. Even if you buy used or you caused the problem. So will Hornady, but their warrantee is "against material defects and workmanship for the life of the product." RCBS fixes it, usually at no cost with no caveat.
"...ammo for handguns should be crimped..." Glib rubbish. Only hot loads need to be crimped. Target loads don't shoot as well if they're crimped.
"...can crimping be a bad thing for pistol or rifle loads?..." Yep. Crimping is detrimental to accuracy. You do NOT have to crimp a rifle bullet just because it has a cannelure either. Nor do you absolutely have to crimp for a semi-auto.
"...I load for a few local hunters..." Leaving yourself wide open for a liability law suit if one of their rifles blows up. Even if the cause wasn't the ammo. It's worse if you charge them to reload and don't have the business permits. You're manufacturing ammo without a licence.
"...Could that be why their ammo shoots 4moa+ and my reloads stay below 1moa?..." No. Has to do with military specs and manufacturing techniques. You're not loading a million rounds at a time with powered machines.

samuel · 12-29-2007, 10:07 AM

Sunray:While recognising your vast experience in reloading it is my belief you should state you are giving an opinion on what works for you instead of claiming to be the final word on all reloading.In Your statement on not crimping handgun bullets you dont differentiate between auto-loader and revolver.While not crimping for a firearm with the chamber and barrel in one piece may be safe,not crimping for a revolver with a gap between the chamber and barrel can be very dangerous.Possibly not enough powder will be burned to drive the bullet completely out the bore. Even in autoloaders while it is safe to not crimp with powders that ignite easily it is dangerous with some hard to light powders as the action can function to a point that it lets the pressure off before driving the bullet out the barrel.In revolvers with slow burn rate powders that ignite hard such as H4227 and unique sometimes not enough powder is ignited to drive the bullet out the barrel.Both situations can be prevented with a crimp which will delay bullet release long enough for sufficient powder to ignite to build gasses sufficient to drive the bullet out the bore.Also on auto-loader handguns the bullet hitting the feed ramp can cause bullet setback and create high pressures that are dangerous and rough on firearms.You say it is unnecessary to crimp for auto-loader rifles.A rifle cartridge loaded with less than 90% fill powder cahrge and loaded in a high capacity magazine with the rifle fired rapidly is a candidate for bullet setback with extreme pressure buildup possible.I have seen crimped bullets that were every bit as accurate as non crimped and sometimes more so.I believe if something works good for you,you should use it.I only try to make sugestions that work for me and may help others. And as to me wondering if their crimp could cause inaccuracy,it makes no difference whether I am loading one or a million rounds,if something in the reloading process is making the bullet inaccurate,it is inaccurate and if that element is not used it will be more accurate.What I write about loading techniques is not the final word,and I hope everyone verifies what I post.It is really easy and Guns and Ammo has one of the best web pages to do just that.I also hope you want your posts verified. Happy hollidays, sam.

12-28-2007, 04:36 PM	#22
JOEGUN94 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MARSHALL Posts: 157 Trader Rating: (0)	thank you thank you every one for the input, i traded my rcbs back , got the money, went with the hornady press and dies, just waiting on cabelas to deliver the rifle and pistol stuff, any way thank you,

12-28-2007, 03:06 PM	#21
roadie Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 592 Trader Rating: (0)	What's a "cannalure"? I was told that crimping is a good idea for semi auto loads because of the movement in the mag, the crimp keeps the bullets from moving in the case while being bumped around during rapid fire. can crimping be a bad thing for pistol or rifle loads?

12-29-2007, 12:30 AM	#24
sunray Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 98 Trader Rating: (0)	"...if I buy brand x do I have to buy brand x parts, ie dies etc..." Nope. The industry standard die thread is 7/8-14. Any press with that thread will take any dies of that thread. Just like any other threaded part. "...traded my rcbs back..." You've traded like for like except for RCBS' legendary customer service. They will fix any problems with their stuff with a phone call no questions asked other than your mailing address. Even if you buy used or you caused the problem. So will Hornady, but their warrantee is "against material defects and workmanship for the life of the product." RCBS fixes it, usually at no cost with no caveat. "...ammo for handguns should be crimped..." Glib rubbish. Only hot loads need to be crimped. Target loads don't shoot as well if they're crimped. "...can crimping be a bad thing for pistol or rifle loads?..." Yep. Crimping is detrimental to accuracy. You do NOT have to crimp a rifle bullet just because it has a cannelure either. Nor do you absolutely have to crimp for a semi-auto. "...I load for a few local hunters..." Leaving yourself wide open for a liability law suit if one of their rifles blows up. Even if the cause wasn't the ammo. It's worse if you charge them to reload and don't have the business permits. You're manufacturing ammo without a licence. "...Could that be why their ammo shoots 4moa+ and my reloads stay below 1moa?..." No. Has to do with military specs and manufacturing techniques. You're not loading a million rounds at a time with powered machines.

12-29-2007, 10:07 AM	#25
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,060 Trader Rating: (0)	Sunray:While recognising your vast experience in reloading it is my belief you should state you are giving an opinion on what works for you instead of claiming to be the final word on all reloading.In Your statement on not crimping handgun bullets you dont differentiate between auto-loader and revolver.While not crimping for a firearm with the chamber and barrel in one piece may be safe,not crimping for a revolver with a gap between the chamber and barrel can be very dangerous.Possibly not enough powder will be burned to drive the bullet completely out the bore. Even in autoloaders while it is safe to not crimp with powders that ignite easily it is dangerous with some hard to light powders as the action can function to a point that it lets the pressure off before driving the bullet out the barrel.In revolvers with slow burn rate powders that ignite hard such as H4227 and unique sometimes not enough powder is ignited to drive the bullet out the barrel.Both situations can be prevented with a crimp which will delay bullet release long enough for sufficient powder to ignite to build gasses sufficient to drive the bullet out the bore.Also on auto-loader handguns the bullet hitting the feed ramp can cause bullet setback and create high pressures that are dangerous and rough on firearms.You say it is unnecessary to crimp for auto-loader rifles.A rifle cartridge loaded with less than 90% fill powder cahrge and loaded in a high capacity magazine with the rifle fired rapidly is a candidate for bullet setback with extreme pressure buildup possible.I have seen crimped bullets that were every bit as accurate as non crimped and sometimes more so.I believe if something works good for you,you should use it.I only try to make sugestions that work for me and may help others. And as to me wondering if their crimp could cause inaccuracy,it makes no difference whether I am loading one or a million rounds,if something in the reloading process is making the bullet inaccurate,it is inaccurate and if that element is not used it will be more accurate.What I write about loading techniques is not the final word,and I hope everyone verifies what I post.It is really easy and Guns and Ammo has one of the best web pages to do just that.I also hope you want your posts verified. Happy hollidays, sam.