.380 +P load - Page 2

jackar · 05-19-2008, 02:07 PM

I just bought a .380 chambered self loader, a Browning BDA. I love the gun but for me the jury is still out on it being a good defensive caliber. But as to penetration, in Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" he made the statement at least once or twice that a .38 Special "Police Load" (at that time a 158 grain lead bullet @ 850 fps) would completely penetrate a 180 pound man and just keep going. I would certainly think that a 95 grain metal cased bullet @950 fps would do the same. Keith was a genius regarding firearms and I would, for the most part, go along with his thinking. Maybe someone can recommend some penetration tests which have been done with the .380 caliber cartridge. I weigh 180 pounds but I certainly do not want to volunteer to participate in any testing.

Phil Lozano · 05-19-2008, 07:52 PM

Not that this place is the end all of testing

The Box O' Truth - The Box O' Truth

Best,
Phil
_____________________________
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania
Stay out of sight and down wind

gandog56 · 05-19-2008, 10:38 PM

Wouldn't a 380 +P load be almost a 9X18 or 9mm Para? Why not just get the real thing?

jackar · 05-20-2008, 07:24 AM

In my case, it was THE pistol I wanted, and not the caliber. I wish the pistol I bought had been available in 9mm Parabellum.

benzuncle · 05-30-2008, 05:58 PM

Here's a little something from The NAA website and forum. I want to apologize for the pictures. I have saved this article for my own perusal but the pix didn't work out so well on photobucket. (As I own and carry a NAA Guardian 380 this was very interesting to me.) They show a good comparison and the penetration of various 380 rounds:

Results from A Wetpack Test w/NAA Guardian 380, 2.5" Barrel

Here’s the Legend for the picture:
1 Corbon DPX 80gr copper bullet
2 Corbon 90gr JHP
3 Federal HydraShok 90gr JHP
4 Remington GoldenSabr 102gr JHP
5 Speer GoldDot 90gr JHP
6 Winchester SXT 95gr JHP

Note with the shorter barrel (shorter than P3AT 2.75") the DPX keyholed and did not expand much. Even poorer results with the Corbon 90gr, no expansion which is the same I got with a P3AT in previous tests.
Both are high velocity rounds and don't stabilize from a short barrel. In previous tests barrels 3" and longer were required to get good results from the CorBon 90gr JHP.

My choice is the GoldenSabr. The Fed HydraShok and Win SXT are good too. Note that the Win SXT bullet is NOT the same bullet as Winchester Ranger ammo.

Some velocity readings with my Chrony....use legend above...
1 1130fps
2 no reading
3 959.2fps
4 897.6fps
5 no reading
6 no reading

FMJ's...UMC 918.2, 962.4, 960.4fps and Fed AmerEagle 982.6fps

The sky was bright sunlight at 10a.m. and even with the screens, the Chrony didn't always give a reading. I didn't bring enough extra ammo for more readings, but you can see the big fps difference with DPX compared to other ammo.
Wetpack Construction and Use

A properly made wetpack provides useful information about your choice of handgun ammunition. I've provided here my method for making up and using a good wetpack.

Materials you'll need....

1. A stack of newspapers 9" thick. No colored advertisements. Dry weight about 12 lbs.
2. A tub to soak the papers in, good size, a plastic box, 34" long, 15" wide, and 6" deep.
3. A sturdy cardboard box about the size of the newspapers, (12 x 13") and 12" or more deep.
4. A piece of 1/4" or 1/2" plywood, cut to fit the bottom of the box.
5. A heavy, plastic yard bag, 30gal size.
6. A stool or other support for your wetpack at the range.

PROCEDURE
1. Place the newspapers in two even stack in the soaking tub, assuming you use the tub above.
2. Fill with water, the papers will try to float until all the air gets out. Add more water as the papers soak it up.
3. Let soak 36 - 48 hrs, adding more water as needed. The papers will swell up to fill the tub.
4. Place the plastic yard bag in the box to cover the plywood backing in the bottom, fold bag up over the sides of the box.
5. When soaking is done, lift the wet paper out of the tub allowing it drain a moment, then place loosely into the plastic lined box. The paper will have swelled up to 12" thick by now. Final weight is around 30lbs, including the box.

Head to the range and place the box on your support with the papers facing your shooting position. I use a 3' x 3' piece of plywood on top of my stool and slightly tip the box back so the papers will not fall out. Water will run out of the box.

Shoot your rounds into the pack from about 6' distance. Bench rest is best for accuracy in placing the shots. Maximum of about 12 to 15 shots. Less is better. More will just cause bullets to hit each other and distort the paper and mess up the results.

CALIBRATION
Shoot a few .380acp rounds with about a 3"barrel pistol using Remington UMC 95gr FMJ into the pack. When you take the pack apart, the FMJ should penetrate the full 12" for a valid wetpack. A shorter barrel pistol will penetrate less, about 10". (I usually place an extra piece of plywood backing inside the plastic bag at the bottom of the box before I place the wet paper inside.)

DON'TS
Don't dump the papers on the ground and shoot from above.
Don't tie the papers with rope or duct tape before soaking, the paper needs to swell naturally.
Don't drain all the water out before use.
Don't soak less than 36 hrs and expect good results.

This wetpack detail is not for high velocity rifle rounds. Pictures of my wetpack are shown below.

This information was supplied by “oldgranpa” on the North American Arms Message Board.

05-19-2008, 02:07 PM	#21
jackar Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 108	Penetration by .380 ACP I just bought a .380 chambered self loader, a Browning BDA. I love the gun but for me the jury is still out on it being a good defensive caliber. But as to penetration, in Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" he made the statement at least once or twice that a .38 Special "Police Load" (at that time a 158 grain lead bullet @ 850 fps) would completely penetrate a 180 pound man and just keep going. I would certainly think that a 95 grain metal cased bullet @950 fps would do the same. Keith was a genius regarding firearms and I would, for the most part, go along with his thinking. Maybe someone can recommend some penetration tests which have been done with the .380 caliber cartridge. I weigh 180 pounds but I certainly do not want to volunteer to participate in any testing.

05-20-2008, 07:24 AM	#24
jackar Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 108	Why not get the real thing? In my case, it was THE pistol I wanted, and not the caliber. I wish the pistol I bought had been available in 9mm Parabellum.

05-19-2008, 07:52 PM	#22
Phil Lozano Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: June-Dec. Arusha, TZ~Dec.-June PSL, FL. Posts: 188	Not that this place is the end all of testing The Box O' Truth - The Box O' Truth Best, Phil _____________________________ Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania Stay out of sight and down wind

05-19-2008, 10:38 PM	#23
gandog56 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montgomery, IL. Posts: 4,193	Wouldn't a 380 +P load be almost a 9X18 or 9mm Para? Why not just get the real thing?

05-30-2008, 05:58 PM	#25
benzuncle Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central FL Posts: 26	Here's a little something from The NAA website and forum. I want to apologize for the pictures. I have saved this article for my own perusal but the pix didn't work out so well on photobucket. (As I own and carry a NAA Guardian 380 this was very interesting to me.) They show a good comparison and the penetration of various 380 rounds: Results from A Wetpack Test w/NAA Guardian 380, 2.5" Barrel Here’s the Legend for the picture: 1 Corbon DPX 80gr copper bullet 2 Corbon 90gr JHP 3 Federal HydraShok 90gr JHP 4 Remington GoldenSabr 102gr JHP 5 Speer GoldDot 90gr JHP 6 Winchester SXT 95gr JHP Note with the shorter barrel (shorter than P3AT 2.75") the DPX keyholed and did not expand much. Even poorer results with the Corbon 90gr, no expansion which is the same I got with a P3AT in previous tests. Both are high velocity rounds and don't stabilize from a short barrel. In previous tests barrels 3" and longer were required to get good results from the CorBon 90gr JHP. My choice is the GoldenSabr. The Fed HydraShok and Win SXT are good too. Note that the Win SXT bullet is NOT the same bullet as Winchester Ranger ammo. Some velocity readings with my Chrony....use legend above... 1 1130fps 2 no reading 3 959.2fps 4 897.6fps 5 no reading 6 no reading FMJ's...UMC 918.2, 962.4, 960.4fps and Fed AmerEagle 982.6fps The sky was bright sunlight at 10a.m. and even with the screens, the Chrony didn't always give a reading. I didn't bring enough extra ammo for more readings, but you can see the big fps difference with DPX compared to other ammo. Wetpack Construction and Use A properly made wetpack provides useful information about your choice of handgun ammunition. I've provided here my method for making up and using a good wetpack. Materials you'll need.... 1. A stack of newspapers 9" thick. No colored advertisements. Dry weight about 12 lbs. 2. A tub to soak the papers in, good size, a plastic box, 34" long, 15" wide, and 6" deep. 3. A sturdy cardboard box about the size of the newspapers, (12 x 13") and 12" or more deep. 4. A piece of 1/4" or 1/2" plywood, cut to fit the bottom of the box. 5. A heavy, plastic yard bag, 30gal size. 6. A stool or other support for your wetpack at the range. PROCEDURE 1. Place the newspapers in two even stack in the soaking tub, assuming you use the tub above. 2. Fill with water, the papers will try to float until all the air gets out. Add more water as the papers soak it up. 3. Let soak 36 - 48 hrs, adding more water as needed. The papers will swell up to fill the tub. 4. Place the plastic yard bag in the box to cover the plywood backing in the bottom, fold bag up over the sides of the box. 5. When soaking is done, lift the wet paper out of the tub allowing it drain a moment, then place loosely into the plastic lined box. The paper will have swelled up to 12" thick by now. Final weight is around 30lbs, including the box. Head to the range and place the box on your support with the papers facing your shooting position. I use a 3' x 3' piece of plywood on top of my stool and slightly tip the box back so the papers will not fall out. Water will run out of the box. Shoot your rounds into the pack from about 6' distance. Bench rest is best for accuracy in placing the shots. Maximum of about 12 to 15 shots. Less is better. More will just cause bullets to hit each other and distort the paper and mess up the results. CALIBRATION Shoot a few .380acp rounds with about a 3"barrel pistol using Remington UMC 95gr FMJ into the pack. When you take the pack apart, the FMJ should penetrate the full 12" for a valid wetpack. A shorter barrel pistol will penetrate less, about 10". (I usually place an extra piece of plywood backing inside the plastic bag at the bottom of the box before I place the wet paper inside.) DON'TS Don't dump the papers on the ground and shoot from above. Don't tie the papers with rope or duct tape before soaking, the paper needs to swell naturally. Don't drain all the water out before use. Don't soak less than 36 hrs and expect good results. This wetpack detail is not for high velocity rifle rounds. Pictures of my wetpack are shown below. This information was supplied by “oldgranpa” on the North American Arms Message Board.