max load signs

[jimkim]

This is one of the best threads I have read. Check out post #59 to see signs of excessive pressure.

Load Development To Determine A Rifle’s Actual “max” Load. - THR

[GlockMeister]

WOW!. And I went ahead and read the next guys post and I'm thinking he might want to go ahead and except those signs of pressure that he disagrees with? What say you JimKim? Or am I misunderstanding something? Because those signs, no matter how small or minute they may be to that guy, if that's what he's saying, would tell me to back off and count my blessings...

[jimkim]

I say stop at the first sign. Then back off. 99% of the time I never make it to the first sign. If his brass is flowing like that and he hasn't backed off we will have another candidate for the Darwin awards. If he is just mike-ing his cases and ignoring everything else he is asking for trouble.

[GlockMeister]

That's what I thought. I just needed some reassurance because I'm still so knew to reloading and I'm not all that up on the different ways of pressure signs and how to tell them. I did just get to this section in one of the 4 books I got.

I'm not sure it was the best thing to do, but rather then read one then go to the next, I started reading all of them and I read to a point, then pick up another, read to about the same point or rather page number, then go to the next. This way, I can kind of see what each one is trying to say and how they're saying it about that section. Most seem to start out the same way.

But thanks for reinforcing what I was already thinking and just unsure of. lol

One thing I'm coming to realize, it's a real good idea to get, have and use a chrony. You can get warning signs simply based on those readings, correct?

[jimkim]

If you have all the formulas or a good program you can. I don't have a chronograph. I wish I did. Every time I used one it was borrowed. I used it just to see what my velocity was. I have never used one to work up a round. I load a little at a time and watch for pressure signs. I also put it on paper. Once you pass a certain point the groups begin to open up. I back up at that point. Billy can probably tell you more than I can about using one to work up a load.

[wunhunglo]

Yup good article.
I reloaded for years without a chronograph but now I've got one, I realise what I was missing and would recommend one to everybody who reloads.
When you loan it out to your buddies, make sure it is operated under your supervision and don't let them take it away on their own, otherwise, like all tools, it will either never come back or come back broken!

One thing is, you rarely need to go anywhere near maximum pressures to get accuracy; particularly with pistol cartridges.

[Midas]

The closest I ever load to max is 1.5 grains away, and I usually stay 2 grains away. If I need to buy a new powder to get the velocity I want, then so be it.

[Blackrock]

Sounds a little wild but sensible. Actually chronographing a load up to an acceptable FPS without pressure signs on the brass works for me. And going to the ballistic charts give me a better idea of just how fast I want to push a given bullet.

[billy]

Originally Posted by jimkim

If you have all the formulas or a good program you can. I don't have a chronograph. I wish I did. Every time I used one it was borrowed. I used it just to see what my velocity was. I have never used one to work up a round. I load a little at a time and watch for pressure signs. I also put it on paper. Once you pass a certain point the groups begin to open up. I back up at that point. Billy can probably tell you more than I can about using one to work up a load.

i use a crono just to check what i am doing.
for instance recently i was making some 45 l.c. ammo.
and following the manual it should have been 720 fps.
my average for the load i was using was 722.
but when i really like having one is when i am testing pulled powders.
yesterday i got some Russian pistol powder that is supposed to be equivalent to unique.
i will find out this weekend just how equivalent it really is!

i have never made a max load in my life.
the only time ive gotten signs of pressure was a load i had made that was too close to the lands.
i seated them a bit deeper.
wala!
no more pressure signs!

[Peashooter]

Originally Posted by Midas

The closest I ever load to max is 1.5 grains away, and I usually stay 2 grains away. If I need to buy a new powder to get the velocity I want, then so be it.

This is from the same link #54 I believe. What manual or manuals do you use. This data shows that if you "stay 2 grains away" from max by Sierra you are over max in the Lyman manual. If you "stay 2 grains away" according to Lyman, you are right about at start according to Sierra.


300WSM
Win Brass
WLRM Primers
190gr Sierra MatchKing HPBT

Sierra # 5 760 65.2 Max
Lyman 48 760 62.7 Max

Sierra #5 H414 65 Max
Lyman 48 H414 61.0 Max

Sierra #5 XMR 4350 66.0 Max
Lyman 48 XMR 4350 63.5 Max

Sierra #5 MagPro 74.2 Max
Lyman 48 MagPro 75.0+ Max

[samuel]

I guess I am just a dummy,but I have always and still do get the load books out and only pay attention to the minimum loads.I get an average of the minimum,s and start load development in half grain incriments(whatever that word means).I keep going until I have a very accurate load and then on until I start losing accuracy and start backing down one tenth of a grain until I am back to the accuracy I had.I only have to back down four times at most as accuracy starts going west with the first 1/2 increase.By backing down by one tenth,I am "tweeking"my accuracy load.Then if I feel like it I glance at the max loads,average them and see how close I am.Usually I am about two grains shy and a few fps slower.I don't pay attention to max loads because I know I will never use them.In other words I work a load up to be somewhere over "MINIMUM",not somewhere under "MAXIMUM".I and everyone else that has reloaded for accuracy knows that "ACCURACY"is going to be someplace over "MINIMUM" not "MAXIMUM".Also,wear and tear on firearm and brass is much less.Oh yeah,someone was bragging about longrange competition,In lc,it doesnt do any good to get a bullet down there 500 or a 1000yds a mili-second faster if you dont group well or hit the target.Just the way a dummy handles pressure. sam.

[GlockMeister]

That's a very good way to go about it Sam. Being new to reloading, that was one concerning thing I'd noticed, that different books had different mins and maxes. I think coming up with an average from the mins and moving forward from there, is very smart.

[jimkim]

If you think the books are bad. I know a writer that gave two different max loads with the same powder,cartridge,bullet everything. Granted the articles were written at different times but a 3 grain difference is pretty big. GM another thing to notice is which primer they use with a given recipe.

[runfiverun]

i always compare powder amounts between as many books as possible.
i have seen 10 gr difference between books [lee and lyman]
and i like to compare the starting and ending loads.
if they are agreeing. i tend to think that the powder is a good fit.
as in, if they are getting approximate reults in different conditions and diff. labs
then this is going to give similar results in my testing.

[billy]

when i 1st started reloading i posted some panicky angry threads directed at the manufacturers for not having a standard like all the other industries do.
something like this
WHY DONT ANY MANUALS AGREE ON A SAFE LOAD MINIMUM??????? rant rave cry stomp etc...

[Midas]

Originally Posted by Peashooter

This is from the same link #54 I believe. What manual or manuals do you use. This data shows that if you "stay 2 grains away" from max by Sierra you are over max in the Lyman manual. If you "stay 2 grains away" according to Lyman, you are right about at start according to Sierra.


300WSM
Win Brass
WLRM Primers
190gr Sierra MatchKing HPBT

Sierra # 5 760 65.2 Max
Lyman 48 760 62.7 Max

Sierra #5 H414 65 Max
Lyman 48 H414 61.0 Max

Sierra #5 XMR 4350 66.0 Max
Lyman 48 XMR 4350 63.5 Max

Sierra #5 MagPro 74.2 Max
Lyman 48 MagPro 75.0+ Max

The manual I use is based on whatever bullet I am using. I don't compare a whole lot, I just see what velocity I want, and load to it. Haven't had any problems with over pressure.

[Paul T]

Thancks for pointing this out billy, I always have a
propencity for mucking things up so I stay with the books.
Im not working a new wildcat so why change and chance a dangerous
incident.I need to keep the eyes I have...

[jimkim]

Don't forget Lot numbers, case capacity, Temperature, differences in the chamber/bore, different primers, and on and on and on.

[billy]

Originally Posted by jimkim

Don't forget Lot numbers, case capacity, Temperature, differences in the chamber/bore, different primers, and on and on and on.

along with
planetary alignment
lucky socks
whether the gods are smiling upon you


did i mention lucky socks?

[jimkim]

Billy you know lucky socks don't cause higher pressure. It's lucky Draws.