Unintended discharge on flight to Charlotte?

fred · 03-27-2008, 09:58 PM

It appears that the handgun that discharged on the flight into Charlotte was an H&K USP .40 cal. Anybody care to comment? H&K's website describes the weapon as being adaptable from combination safety/decocker to safety only to decocker only. I've never handled one or seen one close up so I don't know what the implications are.

elmer fudd · 03-27-2008, 10:01 PM

so it was on a plane and it fired!!!!!! i didnt think they would let you ship bullets on a plane with your gun!!!!!!

just_a_car · 03-27-2008, 10:07 PM

This was already posted here:

fred · 03-28-2008, 07:59 AM

Yes, I know it was posted. I could understand why a Glock might discharge if it were put back in a holster and the trigger caught something (safe trigger notwithstanding). What I am asking is specific to the H&K: is there something about the design that would possibly cause such a discharge or is it human error?

LarryO1970 · 03-28-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmer fudd

so it was on a plane and it fired!!!!!! i didnt think they would let you ship bullets on a plane with your gun!!!!!!

Elmer... it wasn't being shipped, it was a pilot with a permit to carry on the airline. Supposedly, it fired when he was stowing it.

Problem is, his finger should have been nowhere near the trigger and the safety should have been on.

punkndisorderly · 03-28-2008, 10:35 AM

If I'm not mistaken, the H&K USP's can be had in SA/DA, or DAO and can be carried cocked and locked for single action first shot. I would be interested to know how it was that the discharge happened (but have a feeling the media won't go further than "gun on plane go bang"). Perhaps it was in a bag, sans holster, and the combination of a little pushing and an item jammed within the trigger guard was the cause.

rfc357 · 03-28-2008, 11:37 AM

My guess is, the pilot pulled the trigger......

I investigated several "unintentional" discharges while I was in the military, and all involved a finger on the trigger when it should not have been.

samuel · 03-28-2008, 12:25 PM

How could you tell with pilots flying planes while intoxicated and the other day two pilots flew by their airport and had to be awakened to land.I dont necessarily think terrorist,s are the only danger to flying. sam.

TXplt · 03-28-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuel

How could you tell with pilots flying planes while intoxicated and the other day two pilots flew by their airport and had to be awakened to land.I dont necessarily think terrorist,s are the only danger to flying. sam.

Needless to say, I find this mildly offensive. Believe it or not, most pilots ARE careful and consciencious professionals.

captsquirrel · 07-12-2008, 10:19 PM

Im with TXplt. The most dangerous part about flying is the drive to the airport. I much prefer being up there surrounded by professionals. I'm sure you all see the dimwits we have to share the roads with.

Shaun · 07-12-2008, 10:32 PM

These pilots are required to unholster the firearm and stow it during the flight. This is the problem the pilots need personal control by keeping it on thier person. The cause was the trigger being touched but the reason is the ridiculous rule that the pilots must handle it when they have no need too.

I am with the other pilots here all of use have proven the level of responsibility we have by flying our hardware safely. The most dangerous part is the drive to the field with all the idiots on the road. When I am up on a long trip the 45 is in my flight bag if its a short one and I decide to holster it the gun is on the hip. But in my Cessna all passengers MUST be armed as it is my way of saying to the FAA and the DHS that armed passengers and pilots make for safe transport.

Windwalker · 07-13-2008, 08:05 AM

I don't fly commercial any more as it is too much hassle in my opinion. However, Shaun, I agree with your ideas and would fly with you anywhere.

LefthandShooter · 07-13-2008, 08:19 AM

I've never flown commercial but agree that if someone was trying to take over a plane by breaking down the cockpit door I'd want the pilkot with the sidearm on his/her side, instead of stowed. Seconds may mean lives saved!
Shaun: I'd fly with you anywhere also. I know a few pilots and everyone of them are very disciplined and trustworthy.

captsquirrel · 07-13-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

...But in my Cessna all passengers MUST be armed as it is my way of saying to the FAA and the DHS that armed passengers and pilots make for safe transport.

I knew Shaun and I would get along. I'll fly with ya or form up on your wing any day.

XJTFLYR · 09-30-2008, 09:11 PM

The problem is with the locking holsters the TSA gives us. If you do not make sure your wepon is seated correctly, you run the danger of placing the lock ahead of the trigger.

This pilot was careless. End of story.

red700 · 12-26-2008, 10:58 AM

Forgive me, I'm new here and if the gun is with the safety on and there is no bullet in the chamber then how could it go off? Or do you carry it with a shell in and the safety on? Or are you talking that being (loaded )there is a shell in the chamber and it is locked? I'm not up on all the terms being used here. All I know is I agree with Shaun and his thoughts and it sounds good to me. It to bad the News does not report everything and just not small bits and pieces of a accident like this one. Thank you

Otter · 12-26-2008, 08:00 PM

No one should try to put a lock on a pistol with a round in the chamber and cocked. If the pilot is cleared to carry on the flight deck, then after landing the pilot should clear and decock, then lock the weapon, he shouldn't handle the weapon in flight, except to use it in an emergency. How basic is the handling of a pistol? After locking the door to the flight deck, open the lock box, remove the pistol, chamber a round and holster the pistol. After landing and securing the plane, un-holster, drop the magazine, clear the chamber, return the round from the chamber to the magazine, decock, stow the pistol in the lock box. That accident happened from the pilot trying to put a lock on a loaded pistol in flight.

When I was taking training at the local FBO, I had an instructor ask if I wanted to leave my pistol in the office, after he saw me clear it and stow it in the headset case in the baggage compartment. After the flight, someone called the police, who came to check my permit. They started with saying it was illegal to carry a gun on an airplane.
I corrected them by quoting the rule, "No person may carry a firearm, concealed or otherwise, on an aircraft without the consent of the PIC." The CFI had the option of saying I could not carry the firearm on the plane, he did not. After looking up the rules, they told me I was correct.
"No shit!" I replied, "Don't you think I would look up the rules before I did it? If the Pilot in Command says I can't carry, then I can't carry, he didn't tell me I couldn't carry, he asked if I wanted to leave the pistol in the office."
I continued to fly there and was never told by my instructor that I couldn't carry a gun.

nmtexan · 01-07-2009, 02:00 AM

The wepons carried by the airline pilots under the Flight Deck officer (FDO) program if it as indeed an H&K are either H&K USP LEM or P-2000s. Either way there is no safety and it is a pretty long first trigger pull. If the pilot was stowing the weapon, he could have gotten something stuck inside the trigger guard and if the weapon were being pushed down towards the muzzle then yes, it could have gone off unintentionally. These pilots undergo a pretty rigorous training in order to be FDOs and they are also very very safety conscious. I also want an armed pilot or two behind that cockpit door the next time a terrorist tries to fly an airplane into a building full of people (and friends we will be hit again as the terrorists know we have a very weak president and congress).

03-27-2008, 09:58 PM	#1
fred Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NC, USA Posts: 231	Unintended discharge on flight to Charlotte? It appears that the handgun that discharged on the flight into Charlotte was an H&K USP .40 cal. Anybody care to comment? H&K's website describes the weapon as being adaptable from combination safety/decocker to safety only to decocker only. I've never handled one or seen one close up so I don't know what the implications are.

03-27-2008, 10:01 PM	#2
elmer fudd Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: pheasant country USA! Posts: 2,239	so it was on a plane and it fired!!!!!! i didnt think they would let you ship bullets on a plane with your gun!!!!!! __________________ spur hard, shoot straight, party hardy!

03-27-2008, 10:07 PM	#3
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 4,091	This was already posted here: __________________ B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09 CETME Owners - Founder AK-47 owners - Member The Mosin Men - Member

07-12-2008, 10:32 PM	#11
Shaun Retired Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,854 Images: 1	These pilots are required to unholster the firearm and stow it during the flight. This is the problem the pilots need personal control by keeping it on thier person. The cause was the trigger being touched but the reason is the ridiculous rule that the pilots must handle it when they have no need too. I am with the other pilots here all of use have proven the level of responsibility we have by flying our hardware safely. The most dangerous part is the drive to the field with all the idiots on the road. When I am up on a long trip the 45 is in my flight bag if its a short one and I decide to holster it the gun is on the hip. But in my Cessna all passengers MUST be armed as it is my way of saying to the FAA and the DHS that armed passengers and pilots make for safe transport. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

07-13-2008, 08:05 AM	#12
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 6,097	I don't fly commercial any more as it is too much hassle in my opinion. However, Shaun, I agree with your ideas and would fly with you anywhere. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it In God I Trust

03-28-2008, 07:59 AM	#4
fred Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NC, USA Posts: 231	Yes, I know it was posted. I could understand why a Glock might discharge if it were put back in a holster and the trigger caught something (safe trigger notwithstanding). What I am asking is specific to the H&K: is there something about the design that would possibly cause such a discharge or is it human error?

03-28-2008, 10:35 AM	#6
punkndisorderly Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 143	If I'm not mistaken, the H&K USP's can be had in SA/DA, or DAO and can be carried cocked and locked for single action first shot. I would be interested to know how it was that the discharge happened (but have a feeling the media won't go further than "gun on plane go bang"). Perhaps it was in a bag, sans holster, and the combination of a little pushing and an item jammed within the trigger guard was the cause.

03-28-2008, 11:37 AM	#7
rfc357 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 741	My guess is, the pilot pulled the trigger...... I investigated several "unintentional" discharges while I was in the military, and all involved a finger on the trigger when it should not have been.

03-28-2008, 12:25 PM	#8
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,912	How could you tell with pilots flying planes while intoxicated and the other day two pilots flew by their airport and had to be awakened to land.I dont necessarily think terrorist,s are the only danger to flying. sam.

07-12-2008, 10:19 PM	#10
captsquirrel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV. Posts: 1,569	Im with TXplt. The most dangerous part about flying is the drive to the airport. I much prefer being up there surrounded by professionals. I'm sure you all see the dimwits we have to share the roads with.

07-13-2008, 08:19 AM	#13
LefthandShooter Got Jesus? Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Northeastern Ohio Posts: 4,345 Blog Entries: 2	I've never flown commercial but agree that if someone was trying to take over a plane by breaking down the cockpit door I'd want the pilkot with the sidearm on his/her side, instead of stowed. Seconds may mean lives saved! Shaun: I'd fly with you anywhere also. I know a few pilots and everyone of them are very disciplined and trustworthy. __________________ May God give us the wisdom & strength to live our lives in a manner that will be pleasing unto Him.

09-30-2008, 09:11 PM	#15
XJTFLYR Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 73	The problem is with the locking holsters the TSA gives us. If you do not make sure your wepon is seated correctly, you run the danger of placing the lock ahead of the trigger. This pilot was careless. End of story.

12-26-2008, 10:58 AM	#16
red700 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lake City,Mn. Posts: 36	Forgive me, I'm new here and if the gun is with the safety on and there is no bullet in the chamber then how could it go off? Or do you carry it with a shell in and the safety on? Or are you talking that being (loaded )there is a shell in the chamber and it is locked? I'm not up on all the terms being used here. All I know is I agree with Shaun and his thoughts and it sounds good to me. It to bad the News does not report everything and just not small bits and pieces of a accident like this one. Thank you

12-26-2008, 08:00 PM	#17
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 992 Images: 6	No one should try to put a lock on a pistol with a round in the chamber and cocked. If the pilot is cleared to carry on the flight deck, then after landing the pilot should clear and decock, then lock the weapon, he shouldn't handle the weapon in flight, except to use it in an emergency. How basic is the handling of a pistol? After locking the door to the flight deck, open the lock box, remove the pistol, chamber a round and holster the pistol. After landing and securing the plane, un-holster, drop the magazine, clear the chamber, return the round from the chamber to the magazine, decock, stow the pistol in the lock box. That accident happened from the pilot trying to put a lock on a loaded pistol in flight. When I was taking training at the local FBO, I had an instructor ask if I wanted to leave my pistol in the office, after he saw me clear it and stow it in the headset case in the baggage compartment. After the flight, someone called the police, who came to check my permit. They started with saying it was illegal to carry a gun on an airplane. I corrected them by quoting the rule, "No person may carry a firearm, concealed or otherwise, on an aircraft without the consent of the PIC." The CFI had the option of saying I could not carry the firearm on the plane, he did not. After looking up the rules, they told me I was correct. "No shit!" I replied, "Don't you think I would look up the rules before I did it? If the Pilot in Command says I can't carry, then I can't carry, he didn't tell me I couldn't carry, he asked if I wanted to leave the pistol in the office." I continued to fly there and was never told by my instructor that I couldn't carry a gun. __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

01-07-2009, 02:00 AM	#18
nmtexan Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	The wepons carried by the airline pilots under the Flight Deck officer (FDO) program if it as indeed an H&K are either H&K USP LEM or P-2000s. Either way there is no safety and it is a pretty long first trigger pull. If the pilot was stowing the weapon, he could have gotten something stuck inside the trigger guard and if the weapon were being pushed down towards the muzzle then yes, it could have gone off unintentionally. These pilots undergo a pretty rigorous training in order to be FDOs and they are also very very safety conscious. I also want an armed pilot or two behind that cockpit door the next time a terrorist tries to fly an airplane into a building full of people (and friends we will be hit again as the terrorists know we have a very weak president and congress).