Any Thoughts on the SU-16 Rifle?

azguy · 01-08-2009, 01:10 AM

I stumbuled across this one while I was doing some pre purchase reasurch on a sub 2000. I have never fired a Kel Tec before but I know a few guys at work who have Kel Tec handguns. This littel carbine looks great. I am now thinking of gettin it instead of the sub 2000. Is this a really great buy for a budget .223, or is it just a good consolation for California shooters who cannot get an AR style rifle. How such a cool design, and a full under-folder too; still be leagle in California. I know they come with 10 round magazines but how do they work with 20, and 30 round magazines? Any info would help. Unable to find any here, and I cannot get any kind of a time fraime as to when I will be able to buy one. Eveyone is sold out and on backorder. I hope that they are not written out by any new laws.

Todd Bayliss · 01-09-2009, 08:44 PM

I'd say the SU16 is about the only choice for a budget semi-auto .223 . THey are quite popular in Kali because they manage to tip-toe around the "assault weapon" designation. I'm not sure if the Charlie model is legal there or not, my head hurts when I think about their laws.
Although the A and B models fold, the can't be fired while folded. However, with a 30 round mag stored in the buttstock, it can be made ready to fire in seconds. The A model has a longer, heavier barrel and the B has better sights. Mine is an A with the Pistol grip adapter and ACE Products side folding stock.
The C model can be fired while folded and the stock will fit over a METAL 30 round mag. Plastic mags are too thick for the hole in the stock to fit over.

I'd say the A model should certainly be safe from any legislation in the immediate future. It's basically a takedown rifle. They've even come up with a "bullet-button" for it.

One great thing about the SU16 as opposed to an AR (besides price) is that it's rod operated so the chamber stays relatively clean. Also Keltec's customer service is top notch. They've been known to give people new guns with the old serial number if the problem can't be fixed any other way.

You may hear rumors about them being prone to Kabooms. This was a problem in a few of the very first ones off the assembly line and was due to an improperly staked operating rod. It was promptly fixed and I haven't heard of this happening to anyone since.

That's all I can think of for now. I love mine. KTOG.org is a great resource for Keltec info as well.

Oh, one more thing. You can use a tennis racket or Razor scooter bag as an SU16 carrying case. Talk about stealth!

azguy · 01-10-2009, 05:10 PM

Thanks for the info. I will have to wait and get some cash together before I get one. I went ahead and and got the Glock style .40 S&W 29 rnd. magazines, just in case. I figure the magazines will become unavalible for sale long before the SUB 2000 will be unavalible. Eventually I want a copy of both the SUB 2000, and the SU-16, I really like the C/A configuration. It seams like the best of both rifles.

azguy · 01-10-2009, 05:13 PM

I forgot to ask before; what is a "Bullet Button"?

Todd Bayliss · 01-10-2009, 05:53 PM

In Kali a rifle with a pistol grip can't have a detachable magazine, detachable meaning removable without the use of a tool. It has been decided that a bullet is a tool, so AR's and the like are fitted with a bracket where you have to use a bullet (or other such pin-type device) to depress a button to remove the mag...bullet button. It works kind of like removing the floor plate from a pistol mag.

And yeah, the C/A does seem like the best all around. Some folks say C/A stands for Cat's A$$.

EtherialOne · 02-01-2009, 01:46 AM

I sortof stumbled onto a Sub 9 (predicessor to the sub 2000) and picked it up on the spot several months ago and Love it. I would get one just for the portability and how rapidly you can deploy it alone. Then I too started looking at the Sub 16's as I wanted a 2nd or backup rifle in .223 and was lucky enough to find a used one minus the back sight at a local gun shop for around $350. I've yet to shoot it yet but from everything I've read I'm sure I will be very happy with it. The only thing I don't care for so far is having to use the push pin for the stock. I've read that many people have substituted the factory pin with a 1/4" hitch pin, but I would love to be able to figure out a way to make it as rapidly deployable as my sub 9. To me that is the only negative I've seen about the 16 yet.

CrazyIvan · 04-30-2009, 09:26 PM

I'd prefer Kel-Tec's PLR-16, and tricked out:

Dragunov · 05-01-2009, 01:11 PM

I have the B model. Make sure you clean it and lube it properly before firing it. Don't rapid fire it. Keep in mind it's a SURVIVAL weapon and not a combat weapon. expect a 2 to 2.5in. MOA. Dress it properly before you shoot it and it'll be even better. Don't forget to lube the EJECTOR.

My 10yr old Daughter can shoot it all day and still wants more.

Great little weapon.

tommy · 07-11-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azguy

Thanks for the info. I will have to wait and get some cash together before I get one. I went ahead and and got the Glock style .40 S&W 29 rnd. magazines, just in case. I figure the magazines will become unavalible for sale long before the SUB 2000 will be unavalible. Eventually I want a copy of both the SUB 2000, and the SU-16, I really like the C/A configuration. It seams like the best of both rifles.

i think your out of luck i just checked out the new sub2000 at my local gun shop and guess what they no longer accept glock mags they now make them to take sig mags i think. this was the 9mm model i am talking about but i think it's the same for all calibers of sub2000's. i had a few of them 30+3 mags for my sub2000 and trust me your better off going with a regular high capacity mag the ones i had didn't really work that well and they was a name brand .i traded mine in for a two for one swap on some glock17 mags for it.

tommy · 07-11-2009, 01:04 PM

i see it comes in choices i wonder if they still give you the choice of the gun store just couldn't get anymore of the 9mm glock mag ones??

azguy · 07-14-2009, 03:47 AM

I think the Sub 2000 comes in a Sig, Glock, and Baretta configuration, for both 9mm and .40 S&W you just have to specify which configuration you want when you order it of just "buy from dealer stock". I held off on any Kel Tec gun now, I am working on a M-4 build. Either way you can never have enough spare High Cap Glock mags.

blat · 07-16-2009, 07:13 PM

I had an SU 16 B. Now I have a PLR 16; both excellent guns. But you need to use an optical sight on the PLR, in order to hit anything; the "iron" sights are useless.

Joe Brainard · 07-16-2009, 07:20 PM

Here's another thread about the SU-16.
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/sur...val-rifle.html (Overlooked "Survival" rifle)

01-08-2009, 01:10 AM	#1
azguy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 290	Any Thoughts on the SU-16 Rifle? I stumbuled across this one while I was doing some pre purchase reasurch on a sub 2000. I have never fired a Kel Tec before but I know a few guys at work who have Kel Tec handguns. This littel carbine looks great. I am now thinking of gettin it instead of the sub 2000. Is this a really great buy for a budget .223, or is it just a good consolation for California shooters who cannot get an AR style rifle. How such a cool design, and a full under-folder too; still be leagle in California. I know they come with 10 round magazines but how do they work with 20, and 30 round magazines? Any info would help. Unable to find any here, and I cannot get any kind of a time fraime as to when I will be able to buy one. Eveyone is sold out and on backorder. I hope that they are not written out by any new laws.

01-09-2009, 08:44 PM	#2
Todd Bayliss Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 591 Blog Entries: 1	I'd say the SU16 is about the only choice for a budget semi-auto .223 . THey are quite popular in Kali because they manage to tip-toe around the "assault weapon" designation. I'm not sure if the Charlie model is legal there or not, my head hurts when I think about their laws. Although the A and B models fold, the can't be fired while folded. However, with a 30 round mag stored in the buttstock, it can be made ready to fire in seconds. The A model has a longer, heavier barrel and the B has better sights. Mine is an A with the Pistol grip adapter and ACE Products side folding stock. The C model can be fired while folded and the stock will fit over a METAL 30 round mag. Plastic mags are too thick for the hole in the stock to fit over. I'd say the A model should certainly be safe from any legislation in the immediate future. It's basically a takedown rifle. They've even come up with a "bullet-button" for it. One great thing about the SU16 as opposed to an AR (besides price) is that it's rod operated so the chamber stays relatively clean. Also Keltec's customer service is top notch. They've been known to give people new guns with the old serial number if the problem can't be fixed any other way. You may hear rumors about them being prone to Kabooms. This was a problem in a few of the very first ones off the assembly line and was due to an improperly staked operating rod. It was promptly fixed and I haven't heard of this happening to anyone since. That's all I can think of for now. I love mine. KTOG.org is a great resource for Keltec info as well. Oh, one more thing. You can use a tennis racket or Razor scooter bag as an SU16 carrying case. Talk about stealth! __________________ "Victim Selection Error"- Available at Amazon.com http://www.mtoddbayliss.com

01-10-2009, 05:53 PM	#5
Todd Bayliss Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 591 Blog Entries: 1	In Kali a rifle with a pistol grip can't have a detachable magazine, detachable meaning removable without the use of a tool. It has been decided that a bullet is a tool, so AR's and the like are fitted with a bracket where you have to use a bullet (or other such pin-type device) to depress a button to remove the mag...bullet button. It works kind of like removing the floor plate from a pistol mag. And yeah, the C/A does seem like the best all around. Some folks say C/A stands for Cat's A$$. __________________ "Victim Selection Error"- Available at Amazon.com http://www.mtoddbayliss.com

02-01-2009, 01:46 AM	#6
EtherialOne Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Rural NC Posts: 48	Buy Both! I sortof stumbled onto a Sub 9 (predicessor to the sub 2000) and picked it up on the spot several months ago and Love it. I would get one just for the portability and how rapidly you can deploy it alone. Then I too started looking at the Sub 16's as I wanted a 2nd or backup rifle in .223 and was lucky enough to find a used one minus the back sight at a local gun shop for around $350. I've yet to shoot it yet but from everything I've read I'm sure I will be very happy with it. The only thing I don't care for so far is having to use the push pin for the stock. I've read that many people have substituted the factory pin with a 1/4" hitch pin, but I would love to be able to figure out a way to make it as rapidly deployable as my sub 9. To me that is the only negative I've seen about the 16 yet.

04-30-2009, 09:26 PM	#7
CrazyIvan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Englewood, CO Posts: 3,413 Blog Entries: 1	I'd prefer Kel-Tec's PLR-16, and tricked out: __________________ "Minimum wage, minimum effort." "Never underestimate the power of stupidity." ~Me

01-10-2009, 05:10 PM	#3
azguy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 290	Thanks for the info. I will have to wait and get some cash together before I get one. I went ahead and and got the Glock style .40 S&W 29 rnd. magazines, just in case. I figure the magazines will become unavalible for sale long before the SUB 2000 will be unavalible. Eventually I want a copy of both the SUB 2000, and the SU-16, I really like the C/A configuration. It seams like the best of both rifles.

01-10-2009, 05:13 PM	#4
azguy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 290	I forgot to ask before; what is a "Bullet Button"?

05-01-2009, 01:11 PM	#8
Dragunov Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Peoples Repooblik of Kaliforniastan. Posts: 609	I have the B model. Make sure you clean it and lube it properly before firing it. Don't rapid fire it. Keep in mind it's a SURVIVAL weapon and not a combat weapon. expect a 2 to 2.5in. MOA. Dress it properly before you shoot it and it'll be even better. Don't forget to lube the EJECTOR. My 10yr old Daughter can shoot it all day and still wants more. Great little weapon.

07-11-2009, 01:04 PM	#10
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,846 Images: 6	i see it comes in choices i wonder if they still give you the choice of the gun store just couldn't get anymore of the 9mm glock mag ones?? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

07-14-2009, 03:47 AM	#11
azguy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 290	I think the Sub 2000 comes in a Sig, Glock, and Baretta configuration, for both 9mm and .40 S&W you just have to specify which configuration you want when you order it of just "buy from dealer stock". I held off on any Kel Tec gun now, I am working on a M-4 build. Either way you can never have enough spare High Cap Glock mags.

07-16-2009, 07:13 PM	#12
blat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Western NC Posts: 385	I had an SU 16 B. Now I have a PLR 16; both excellent guns. But you need to use an optical sight on the PLR, in order to hit anything; the "iron" sights are useless. __________________ I feel more like I do now than I did awhile ago.

07-16-2009, 07:20 PM	#13
Joe Brainard Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rhinelander, Wisc. Posts: 480	Here's another thread about the SU-16. http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/sur...val-rifle.html (Overlooked "Survival" rifle) __________________ You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.--Gospel of John 8:32 NRA Member