Cold Steel, no more Carbon V

[Deep13]

I just found out that the factory that used to make their excellent Carbon V knives has folded. They have a variety of materials with different characteristics. Carbon V was a non-stainless that held a good edge, was easy to sharpen, was tough, but rusted easily. They were epoxied black in color and were much less expesive than their top end stainless models.

http://www.coldsteel.com/faqs.html

It seems they have two new replacements for the Carbon V. One is 1055 carbon, non-stainless steel. The other is a stainless steel called "4116 Krupp." Krupp is a German firm that typically makes kitchen appliances. Of course CS assures the prospective customer that this Krupp stainless is top drawer, but the prices for them are really low. Combined with the fact that many of their products are now made in China or Tiawan and I have to wonder if it can possibly be as good as the superb USA-made Carbon V.

Does anyone have any experience with the new materials? The low prices and possible Chinese origin cause me to doubt their worth.

[lifesgood]

Please remember Cold Steel is a Japanese Company. Their American made stuff wasn't their best. Cold Steels Taiwan stuff is of very good quality.

[Triggerjerk]

Steel is a combination of iron and a minute amount of carbon. Adding alloys, like those found in Carbon V, enhances the performance of the steel in different ways. 1055 high carbon is a softer type of simple high carbon steel. The 10 series of carbon steels have no or very minute amounts of alloys in them. 1055 will be softer than 1095, which is what the Kabar Marine knife is made of. I also beleive that Ontario Knife's military or survival series is 1095. 10 series steels are easy to forge, and very forgiving to the blacksmith. I have a friend who forges knives. I have filed some out of 1095. They will also be easy to grind in mass production. The series goes (generally) 1050 -1095 with the 1095 being the hardest after heat treating. 1050 is about the lowest carbon steel that you can heat treat. A knife made of 1050 will be easier to sharpen than one made from 1095, but will dull more easily. Adding alloys to carbon steels enhance toughness, hardness, and edge holding ability. This gives you steels like Carbon V.

According to the Master Smith Wayne Goddard, Carbon V is a chrome- vanadium steel. (He had a Carbon V blade analyzed.) The chromium increases wear resistance, adds hardness and toughness, and also helps with rust resistance. Vanadium helps the steel withstand high heat in the heat treating process. The closest thing to Carbon V is probably a steel called 6150, which is used for springs in vehivles. Lots of smiths make knives out of coil springs from vehicles that they straighten out and forge to shape.

I cannot help you much with 4116 Krupp. If they are using AISI-SAE standards that we use in the USA, it is a chromium-molybdenum steel. This could be a tough, hard tool steel.

I would buy a knife made of 1095 from a reputable firm before one made of 1055, unless you like softer steels. Hope this helps.

[Romey]

I completely agree with what is said here, .50 of carbon is a incredibly low amount of carbon for a knife. 5160 ( the coil spring steel you refer to)which is 1060 with chromium added for wear resistance is, im my opinion a still to low a carbon content yet its used by beginning Bladesmiths as it is exstremely easy to heat treat in a small shop without much knowledge needed. id like to correct the concept of Vanadium tho in saying is uses does increase strength and is used for wear resistance simuliar to chromium but more importantly retard grain growth during the heat treat process.
About Carbon V, well, its a bit of a advertisment sham in that its not really a specific steel but the name of the steel the company cold steel happens to be using at the time. Sounds exotic and helps sales to folks who belong to magic steel of the month club. Industry insiders insist it is 0170-6 which is same also called 50100-B. 50100 is basically 52100 with about 1/3 the chromium of 52100, and the B in 50100-B indicates that the steel has been modified with vanadium, making this a chrome-vanadium steel.


A good steel? Ofcourse as any high carbon steel would be with a PROPER heat treat, which is somthing Id be a bit more concerned with then what steel it is. This variety of steel is incredibly difficult to heattreat properly and isnt really intended as a blade steel to begin with.
As for chinese steel, well its as uncontrolled smelt as youd imagine and we are already seeing it come throuch mills in India. I problem that is only going to get worse in the US, as a Custom Bladesmith I have already seen whole varieties of steel vanish from the market.
Hope this helps

[Triggerjerk]

You know though...I have a few Buck pocketknives that were made in thier factory in China, and I think that they're as good as the USA made. HOWEVER, that said, a lot of the USA makers have farmed stuff out to China and it's junk. The manufacturer has to keep QC high in China.

The TSA locally takes the knives from folks who try to board planes with them, and the State of NH Surplus sells them for $1 or $2. I get to see a lot of knives cheap! How they must cry when their Case or Kershaw goes into that bin. Well, I give them good homes.

[Deep13]

Thanks for all the detailed responses. There's a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum.

[Romey]

Deep 13, Feel free to go to my website if youd like to learn more about various knife making info. High Country Knives

[Triggerjerk]

I went there Romey. Did you make the pictured knives? NICE stuff. I generally buy my blades, as I really don't like working steel. I filed a few out of 1095 and heat treated them in my friend's forge. greenfieldforge.com
Anyhow, those are some nice knives. I use puuko blades and put birch bark handles on them.

[Romey]

Yes I made everything you see there all hand crafted, hand forged. Nothing farmed out at all. All completely custom and one off. Thank you for the kind words. Ill probably post pictures of them as i make them once in awhile just to show the friends I have made here on the forum what Im up to.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Romey

Yes I made everything you see there all hand crafted, hand forged. Nothing farmed out at all. All completely custom and one off. Thank you for the kind words. Ill probably post pictures of them as i make them once in awhile just to show the friends I have made here on the forum what Im up to.

Just might get in touch with you on my next knife purchase. I know as much about knives as I do women. Just enough to get myself hurt, and bad!

[Triggerjerk]

There is a write up of the Krupp 4116 steel in the Tactical Knives that just hit the news stand. Cold Steel did the write up to explain it. It's not an independent review.

[Romey]

I tried to find the chem analysis on that stainless Just like the truth to Carbon V , Id not be suprised if the SS isnt some simple 440C or ATS-34. Most all steels used for knives are decent , some better then others if the heattreat is done correctly, and thats the catch.
I do habe a indication the Krupp part is its a german compay named Krupp thats makin the steel.
Did they give a anaylisis of the steel in the article or was it basically a advertisement?

[Triggerjerk]

There is an analysis. It's a chromium-molybdenum-vanadium steel with a whole bunch of trace elements. .5% carbon. Check it out when you get by a magazine stand.

[Romey]

Thats a very very low carbon content