Making of a blade - Page 2

Romey · 11-23-2007, 10:37 PM

The distal taper is taken on up to 400 grit, 36,120,220,340,400 progressivly where I will start the handsaind process that will set up for the finish sanding after heat treat. Doing it progressivly makes sure I wipe out the previous grits scratches. A MAJOR nono is to have a 800 grit finish and under neith is a 220 scrath or what ever. Being this is a user This one will eventually get a 600 grit blade finish.
Pic 1 you see the taper up to i believ 220 and more refined yet, very straight though camera angle doesnt quite show it.
Pic 2 shows the blade bevels at 220 grit. Look familar to factory knives? It should. They use a double grinder in a jig, mine is completely free hand.
Notice how straight the plunge line is, this one is coming out VERY good.
Pic 3 shows it at 400 grit which is where I have stopped, its so flat by the time im at this stage that any uneven or ripple in the platen on my grinder shows, where i normally would often spend exstra time handsanding it out, this one as you see has none, already the finish is beyond factory and we aint done yet.
The edge at this point is about the thickness of a dime, maybe slightly more so and right where I like them to be for setting the secondary edge angle.
The spine as well is taken to 400 grit as in bottom of Ricasso. Tang is ground and tapered away from the blade making the Apex I talked about that will be right inside the guard, giving it the balance we will be looking for not to mention greater strength then a straight untapered tang. Once handsanded it will be ready for heat treat, , guard, handle ect. This is going to be a nice blade.

Nathan123 · 11-24-2007, 03:39 AM

WOW Romey, that is looking great.
With every new post i am getting even more excited, this is going to turn out to be a great knife.

ArkansasHunter · 11-24-2007, 07:43 AM

I tell you what I have a lot more respect now for hand made knife artisans !
The time and labor put into crafting a hand made knife is so labor intense I don't think I would have the patience to to make one.
Romey you got to love what you do and thanks for sharing the art of knife makeing.
I'm enjoying ever bit of it.
Say feller ? I've got some alloy lawnmower blades you want them ? LOL...A.H

Oxford · 11-24-2007, 10:01 AM

This morning I enjoyed reviewing all posts in this thread, links and your business site information and it's easy to understand why you can't just charge $1.98 for the custom made knives. It's obviously very labor intensive to make, along with requiring a complete knowledge of metallurgy during each stage of it's manufacture.

Is the "Montana Skinner", along with it's sheath, one of the most popular models?

Romey · 11-24-2007, 12:16 PM

Thanks Folks. Yes it is more me completely labor intensive. Some guys have alot more equipment and fancy stuff, some even CNC thier stuff but to me that stuff is just a notch under factory and not handmade at all.
A.H. I have a good blade on my mower now so i dont have a use for them

Oxford. When i started the process of making knives it was really only to make for myself and family members as a knife around us gets used very hard. Just in a hunting season alone I hay dress out and quarter several elk and deer, the odd crippled steer,lord knows what amd it was down hill from there. It has went far beyond i thought it would, I researched and studied from jewlery making and engraving to luthier and fine wood working and still do to make each knife better. Youd probably be amazed at the scrap blades and various blocks of wood and antler ect that i have laying around useless now as results of various testing. Always seems to be something to learn or try.

As for the my knives there really isnt a "model" name, I just name each knife so people or myself have something of recognition rather then , "you know that one elk handled skinner" where id have to say "yea?which one?" By the time Im done with a knife there is so much personality into it that naming them is half the fun, I generally find a spot or area that reminds me of the knife or to where the knife owner lives and use it. Sometimes im stumped for names though and let the owner name it of a area they live near or something, as long as its not Betsy or something.
So that being said Nathan when the knife is done and we got a feel for the looks of it what do you say you and I and everyone partisipating in this thread toss in suggestions and see what we come up with? I think it should definitly have a Aussie name.

I dont know if that Montana skinner is as popular as others, it sure is with its owner and that one becuase of the blade finish has gotten more comments from other knifemakers then any other. The type of hand finish I do is very difficult to do well and I have gotten recognized for it within custom knifemakers community. Personally I hated to see that one go as I REALLY made it for myself and REALLY liked it but... the guy who has it liked it more,haha

Mooseman684 · 11-24-2007, 12:58 PM

looks like a "'Roo Skinner "to me...

Windwalker · 11-24-2007, 01:55 PM

What is the overall length and the blade length? We are very lucky to have someone as talented as you to answer our questions. Your knowledge as your work is superb. Thanks for your time and patience. If I can ever afford to have a custom knife built, I want you to make it.

ArkansasHunter · 11-24-2007, 04:04 PM

Romey I thought you could use the blades for knife mak'in LOL

...A.H

Nathan123 · 11-24-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romey

So that being said Nathan when the knife is done and we got a feel for the looks of it what do you say you and I and everyone partisipating in this thread toss in suggestions and see what we come up with? I think it should definitly have a Aussie name.

That sounds like a great idea Romey. Since these good folks are taking the time to read this thread and show support i think it would be good to have their input on ideas for a name.

Oxford · 11-24-2007, 04:59 PM

What about naming it "G & Game special edition?"

Nathan123 · 11-24-2007, 10:24 PM

A few names to throw out there for discussion:

In keeping with Mooseman and Oxford "the gun and game limited editon roo skinner"

or

A combination of where the idea for this knife came from and where it's new home will be, the "Aussie Hunter"

Windwalker · 11-27-2007, 11:24 AM

Like the name "Aussie Hunter." It just seems to fit.

LiveToShoot · 11-27-2007, 12:13 PM

It's great to be a viewer/participant in this amazing process...thanks.

Romey · 11-27-2007, 08:44 PM

Thank you all for the kind words, im very glad your all enjoying it, makes the exstra time taking pics and such worth it.
I had misses one of Windwalkers posts..
The Blade ended up being JUST a hair under 6 inches from tip to ricasso. We were shoting for a 5 inch but sometimes the metal tells YOU what it wants to be and you either go with it or it fights the hole way, so far this is a very happy blade.
Most handles I make are 4.5 inches long for this sized blade. I used to make them 5 inches long and after a time realized unless one hase hams for hands its not needed at all. 4.5 seems to be better flow of balance and much better handling.
At the guard the spine will be just a hair under 1/4 inch so but with the quick distal taper it rapidly thins out for fine cutting at the tip.

LiveToShoot · 11-28-2007, 08:43 PM

How's the new knife coming along Nathan/Romey?

Romey · 11-28-2007, 08:58 PM

Well i got the foundation finish put on, this is a step I do PRE heattreat and something most if no makers do. Its at 400 grit finish and lines are running with the blade. I do this simply to make sure the blade is dead flat and even, on a flat ground knife before I heattreat to help avoid any warping, cracking or twisting during the heattreat caused by a uneven grind. I have seen the edge of a blade ripple and even crack because of the stresses caused by uneven grind when going from 1500F to 400F in 3 seconds. So I essentially lap it by hand, The human hand and eye is still FAR more controllable then the most then the most minute CNC machine or computer controlled what nots. After heattreat ill have to come back and rehandsand it but it will be alot easier since I have the foundation polish on now while the steel is annealed(soft)
Doing this also helps me to make sure I have no scratches under 400 grit, which can be a beast to hand rub out when the steel is hardened after heatreat. Im diggin this blade, easy to see its intended use just by looking at it. The "flow" of the knife has begun to come out.

Romey · 11-30-2007, 09:03 PM

Tomarrow Im heattreating Nathans Blade, Ill try to get pics as best I can but its going to be some tough as I need to stay on top of things. In the mean time on the subject of lamintated steel I have a couple article for you all to read if you wish.

Wadsworth & Lesuer on history of laminates:
http://www.llnl.gov/tid/lof/documents/pdf/238379.pdf

Wadsworth UHC Evolution:
http://www.llnl.gov/tid/lof/documents/pdf/237566.pdf

Romey · 01-21-2008, 12:24 AM

Well after a month of so of insanity around here I got Nathans blade heat treated. I couldn’t get pics as there are time/temperature issues I have to be on top of but Ill explain what happened. Some of the pics would jut look like the same pics of the normalizing process because now that the blade is ground I go through a thermo cycle process very much the same as after the forging process the only differences is the blade is in a more finished state. This cycling is bringing up to the steels critical temperature and allowing it to cool to black (about 900f) doing this 3 times. You guessed it, we are normalizing again, stress relieving the steel that grinding induced but more importantly bringing the steel " grains" down in size. Smaller the size the better although to much and the steel wont harden completely.
While this is happening I got my quench oil, not ATS, motor oil or hydraulic oil, real quench oil made specifically to the steels I use. This is part of what separates custom from homemade along with the in depth knowledge of why engineered quench oil is better, that’s a whole other metallurgy thread though.
So I reheat the blade to critical and quench. This steel has a 2 second curve to get from 1525 to bellow 600 f for full martinsite transformation. Crap oil WONT do this as fast as needed and hence you end up with not enough carbon put into the matrix and part of why a blade won’t hold an edge long.
After inspecting the edge for hardening I check to make sure the blade didn’t twist, warp or crack do to the violent change in the steel anyone who has welded knows what happens when you rapidly heat and cool metal. Takes a lot of care and skill to not have something as thin as a blade edge to stay true, Nathans looks to be perfect as it was before.
Now on the tempering cycles or as some may know it as "the draw" again I cycle 3 times for one hour a piece, being his blade is W-2 steel its taking a higher temper temp at 425 and I may have to go up to 450 as his blade is screaming hard after the first cycle still at a 64 Rockwell, means something went exceptionally well in the heat-treat. That’s all for now. Once this is done Ill again handsand the finish back on, cut the shoulders and shape the tang preparign for guard fit up, of all this I WILL get pics for you all.

Nathan123 · 01-21-2008, 05:03 PM

Very good mate. I am looking forward to seeing the finished product.

neophyte · 01-21-2008, 07:56 PM

Romey: Sir; I have read this thread several times and learned something new each time. Watching the 'chap' making his dirt knife

Maybe someday I'll ask you to make "MY" knife.
Am looking forward to more of your work and thinking.

Thanks

11-24-2007, 10:01 AM	#24
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,023 Blog Entries: 4	This morning I enjoyed reviewing all posts in this thread, links and your business site information and it's easy to understand why you can't just charge $1.98 for the custom made knives. It's obviously very labor intensive to make, along with requiring a complete knowledge of metallurgy during each stage of it's manufacture. Is the "Montana Skinner", along with it's sheath, one of the most popular models? __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

11-24-2007, 12:16 PM	#25
Romey Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 471	Thanks Folks. Yes it is more me completely labor intensive. Some guys have alot more equipment and fancy stuff, some even CNC thier stuff but to me that stuff is just a notch under factory and not handmade at all. A.H. I have a good blade on my mower now so i dont have a use for them Oxford. When i started the process of making knives it was really only to make for myself and family members as a knife around us gets used very hard. Just in a hunting season alone I hay dress out and quarter several elk and deer, the odd crippled steer,lord knows what amd it was down hill from there. It has went far beyond i thought it would, I researched and studied from jewlery making and engraving to luthier and fine wood working and still do to make each knife better. Youd probably be amazed at the scrap blades and various blocks of wood and antler ect that i have laying around useless now as results of various testing. Always seems to be something to learn or try. As for the my knives there really isnt a "model" name, I just name each knife so people or myself have something of recognition rather then , "you know that one elk handled skinner" where id have to say "yea?which one?" By the time Im done with a knife there is so much personality into it that naming them is half the fun, I generally find a spot or area that reminds me of the knife or to where the knife owner lives and use it. Sometimes im stumped for names though and let the owner name it of a area they live near or something, as long as its not Betsy or something. So that being said Nathan when the knife is done and we got a feel for the looks of it what do you say you and I and everyone partisipating in this thread toss in suggestions and see what we come up with? I think it should definitly have a Aussie name. I dont know if that Montana skinner is as popular as others, it sure is with its owner and that one becuase of the blade finish has gotten more comments from other knifemakers then any other. The type of hand finish I do is very difficult to do well and I have gotten recognized for it within custom knifemakers community. Personally I hated to see that one go as I REALLY made it for myself and REALLY liked it but... the guy who has it liked it more,haha __________________ Romey High Country Knives http://www.highcountryknives.com

11-24-2007, 12:58 PM	#26
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,691 Images: 2	looks like a "'Roo Skinner "to me... __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

11-24-2007, 04:04 PM	#28
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	Romey I thought you could use the blades for knife mak'in LOL...A.H

11-24-2007, 04:59 PM	#30
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,023 Blog Entries: 4	What about naming it "G & Game special edition?" __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

11-24-2007, 03:39 AM	#22
Nathan123 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Newcastle, N.S.W, Australia Posts: 355	WOW Romey, that is looking great. With every new post i am getting even more excited, this is going to turn out to be a great knife.

11-24-2007, 07:43 AM	#23
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	I tell you what I have a lot more respect now for hand made knife artisans ! The time and labor put into crafting a hand made knife is so labor intense I don't think I would have the patience to to make one. Romey you got to love what you do and thanks for sharing the art of knife makeing. I'm enjoying ever bit of it. Say feller ? I've got some alloy lawnmower blades you want them ? LOL...A.H

11-24-2007, 01:55 PM	#27
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,596	What is the overall length and the blade length? We are very lucky to have someone as talented as you to answer our questions. Your knowledge as your work is superb. Thanks for your time and patience. If I can ever afford to have a custom knife built, I want you to make it.

11-24-2007, 10:24 PM	#31
Nathan123 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Newcastle, N.S.W, Australia Posts: 355	A few names to throw out there for discussion: In keeping with Mooseman and Oxford "the gun and game limited editon roo skinner" or A combination of where the idea for this knife came from and where it's new home will be, the "Aussie Hunter" Last edited by Nathan123; 11-24-2007 at 10:29 PM.

11-27-2007, 11:24 AM	#32
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,596	Like the name "Aussie Hunter." It just seems to fit.

11-27-2007, 12:13 PM	#33
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	It's great to be a viewer/participant in this amazing process...thanks. __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown

11-27-2007, 08:44 PM	#34
Romey Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 471	Thank you all for the kind words, im very glad your all enjoying it, makes the exstra time taking pics and such worth it. I had misses one of Windwalkers posts.. The Blade ended up being JUST a hair under 6 inches from tip to ricasso. We were shoting for a 5 inch but sometimes the metal tells YOU what it wants to be and you either go with it or it fights the hole way, so far this is a very happy blade. Most handles I make are 4.5 inches long for this sized blade. I used to make them 5 inches long and after a time realized unless one hase hams for hands its not needed at all. 4.5 seems to be better flow of balance and much better handling. At the guard the spine will be just a hair under 1/4 inch so but with the quick distal taper it rapidly thins out for fine cutting at the tip. __________________ Romey High Country Knives http://www.highcountryknives.com

11-28-2007, 08:43 PM	#35
LiveToShoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,071	How's the new knife coming along Nathan/Romey? __________________ "Happiness is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it." -Unknown

11-30-2007, 09:03 PM	#37
Romey Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 471	Tomarrow Im heattreating Nathans Blade, Ill try to get pics as best I can but its going to be some tough as I need to stay on top of things. In the mean time on the subject of lamintated steel I have a couple article for you all to read if you wish. Wadsworth & Lesuer on history of laminates: http://www.llnl.gov/tid/lof/documents/pdf/238379.pdf Wadsworth UHC Evolution: http://www.llnl.gov/tid/lof/documents/pdf/237566.pdf __________________ Romey High Country Knives http://www.highcountryknives.com Last edited by Romey; 12-01-2007 at 07:42 AM.

01-21-2008, 12:24 AM	#38
Romey Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 471	A blade is born. Well after a month of so of insanity around here I got Nathans blade heat treated. I couldn’t get pics as there are time/temperature issues I have to be on top of but Ill explain what happened. Some of the pics would jut look like the same pics of the normalizing process because now that the blade is ground I go through a thermo cycle process very much the same as after the forging process the only differences is the blade is in a more finished state. This cycling is bringing up to the steels critical temperature and allowing it to cool to black (about 900f) doing this 3 times. You guessed it, we are normalizing again, stress relieving the steel that grinding induced but more importantly bringing the steel " grains" down in size. Smaller the size the better although to much and the steel wont harden completely. While this is happening I got my quench oil, not ATS, motor oil or hydraulic oil, real quench oil made specifically to the steels I use. This is part of what separates custom from homemade along with the in depth knowledge of why engineered quench oil is better, that’s a whole other metallurgy thread though. So I reheat the blade to critical and quench. This steel has a 2 second curve to get from 1525 to bellow 600 f for full martinsite transformation. Crap oil WONT do this as fast as needed and hence you end up with not enough carbon put into the matrix and part of why a blade won’t hold an edge long. After inspecting the edge for hardening I check to make sure the blade didn’t twist, warp or crack do to the violent change in the steel anyone who has welded knows what happens when you rapidly heat and cool metal. Takes a lot of care and skill to not have something as thin as a blade edge to stay true, Nathans looks to be perfect as it was before. Now on the tempering cycles or as some may know it as "the draw" again I cycle 3 times for one hour a piece, being his blade is W-2 steel its taking a higher temper temp at 425 and I may have to go up to 450 as his blade is screaming hard after the first cycle still at a 64 Rockwell, means something went exceptionally well in the heat-treat. That’s all for now. Once this is done Ill again handsand the finish back on, cut the shoulders and shape the tang preparign for guard fit up, of all this I WILL get pics for you all. __________________ Romey High Country Knives http://www.highcountryknives.com Last edited by Romey; 01-21-2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason: Spelling

01-21-2008, 05:03 PM	#39
Nathan123 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Newcastle, N.S.W, Australia Posts: 355	Very good mate. I am looking forward to seeing the finished product.

01-21-2008, 07:56 PM	#40
neophyte Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 3,610 Blog Entries: 2	Thanks Romey: Sir; I have read this thread several times and learned something new each time. Watching the 'chap' making his dirt knife Maybe someday I'll ask you to make "MY" knife. Am looking forward to more of your work and thinking. Thanks __________________ Craig By the standards of most