m1 saginaw

corvetteman · 03-06-2003, 04:48 AM

Hi,
I'am a new member of the Netherlands. Recent I bought a M1 Carabine from Saginaw ser.nr 3326235. Who can tell me the date of manufacturing, where it is made and what kind of firm it originaly was before the war.

Thanks

Corvetteman from the Netherlands

wes · 03-06-2003, 09:49 AM

There were two Saginaw manufacturers, One will have markings of, SG. This is Saginaw Steering gear div. Saginaw, Michigan.
The other,and more rare,is marked, S'G'. These are Saginaw Steering Gear Div. Grand Rapids.
Saginaw Steering Gear was a division of General Motors. (Chevrolet,Oldsmobile,etc.)
The dates on Carbines are not exact,they were made in "blocks" of numbers. Yours should be a SG,and built around 1943. I'm not good on dating these. Someone else can probably get closer. Have fun with that carbine,they are neat guns.

corvetteman · 03-07-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wes
There were two Saginaw manufacturers, One will have markings of, SG. This is Saginaw Steering gear div. Saginaw, Michigan.
The other,and more rare,is marked, S'G'. These are Saginaw Steering Gear Div. Grand Rapids.
Saginaw Steering Gear was a division of General Motors. (Chevrolet,Oldsmobile,etc.)
The dates on Carbines are not exact,they were made in "blocks" of numbers. Yours should be a SG,and built around 1943. I'm not good on dating these. Someone else can probably get closer. Have fun with that carbine,they are neat guns.

Thanks for the quick response. The markes on the barrel tell me
S'G' and under these letters stands General Motors. The wood that is used is wallnut (I think). When I read your response I think I have a very rare example of an M1.

Corvetteman

wes · 03-07-2003, 08:43 PM

Most carbines were rebuilt several times. Almost every part will be marked,such as hammer,bolt,trigger housing. You may have an S'G' barrel,but the serial number should make it a SG. When you take it apart see what some of the numbers and/or letters are,and I'll try to help with who made what parts. There were ten prime contractors for the carbine and all parts interchange. It's no big deal to have parts from any of them.

wes · 03-07-2003, 08:46 PM

The stock should be walnut. Look down in the rear slingwell area to see if anything is stamped there.

jimb2 · 03-09-2003, 06:32 PM

It has to be an SG. S'G' barrels were never made. And Grand Rapids never used SG barrels, although at the end of production the Grand Rapids plant shut down before the Saginaw plant and a few Grand rapids receivers were built by The Saginaw Plant. SG barrels are undated. That is why it is dificult to tell when it was made. In addition, the plant skipped all over their assigned serial numbers during production so that it is possible that a 3,300,000 carbine could have been built before a 3,200,000 carbine! All other makes can be fairly reliably dated. Irwin Pederson/Saginaw SG/Saginaw S'G' carbines cannot be. Wish I could be of more help.

wes · 03-09-2003, 08:14 PM

Thanks jimb,I didn't realize that.

jimb2 · 03-10-2003, 07:23 AM

I'm a moderately advanced collector and have beaten my head against the proverbial brick wall over these Saginaws more than once. Just about the time you think you see a pattern, along comes another entry that changes everything! If there is one hard and fast rule about carbines, itis that there is no such thing as a hard and fast rule about carbines! *LOL*

corvetteman · 04-30-2003, 09:07 AM

In the rear slingwell is stamped a "3" Can you tell me what this means.??

Corvetteman

jimb2 · 04-30-2003, 09:41 AM

No. Various Saginaws have different letters and numbers stamped there. It would depend on who put the marking there and the size and style. Are there additional letters? how big? exactly where is it located? Which type stock is it? So many questions and so few answers......

wes · 04-30-2003, 03:35 PM

I'll stay out of this. Saginaws seem to be really hard to ID.

jimb2 · 04-30-2003, 05:43 PM

Your are certainly right about that! To give just a few example of Saginaw markings.....IO, RSG, RMC, TN, Trimble, IO with numbers, IR-IP, RSG with numbers, IO/40A, U7, RSG/9A, 75E/RSG, RSG/105B and the list goes on......And that doesn't even touch the Saginaw S'G' markings or the IP marlkings! Boggles the mind, doesn't it!

wes · 04-30-2003, 10:35 PM

Yes it does. Did they use almost everyone else's parts?

jimb2 · 05-01-2003, 06:42 AM

Those were just the markings in the sling bevels! Actually, Saginaw used mostly their own parts or subcontractor marked parts. Its just the stocks that have all of the different markings. That's what I love about carbines, just when you think you know what is correct, you discover another parts transfer from anothe manufacturer who got those parts from manufacturer number 3! *LOL*

03-06-2003, 04:48 AM	#1
corvetteman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: netherlands Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0)	m1 saginaw Hi, I'am a new member of the Netherlands. Recent I bought a M1 Carabine from Saginaw ser.nr 3326235. Who can tell me the date of manufacturing, where it is made and what kind of firm it originaly was before the war. Thanks Corvetteman from the Netherlands

03-06-2003, 09:49 AM	#2
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906 Trader Rating: (0)	There were two Saginaw manufacturers, One will have markings of, SG. This is Saginaw Steering gear div. Saginaw, Michigan. The other,and more rare,is marked, S'G'. These are Saginaw Steering Gear Div. Grand Rapids. Saginaw Steering Gear was a division of General Motors. (Chevrolet,Oldsmobile,etc.) The dates on Carbines are not exact,they were made in "blocks" of numbers. Yours should be a SG,and built around 1943. I'm not good on dating these. Someone else can probably get closer. Have fun with that carbine,they are neat guns.

03-07-2003, 08:43 PM	#4
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906 Trader Rating: (0)	Most carbines were rebuilt several times. Almost every part will be marked,such as hammer,bolt,trigger housing. You may have an S'G' barrel,but the serial number should make it a SG. When you take it apart see what some of the numbers and/or letters are,and I'll try to help with who made what parts. There were ten prime contractors for the carbine and all parts interchange. It's no big deal to have parts from any of them.

03-07-2003, 08:46 PM	#5
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906 Trader Rating: (0)	The stock should be walnut. Look down in the rear slingwell area to see if anything is stamped there.

03-09-2003, 06:32 PM	#6
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	It has to be an SG. S'G' barrels were never made. And Grand Rapids never used SG barrels, although at the end of production the Grand Rapids plant shut down before the Saginaw plant and a few Grand rapids receivers were built by The Saginaw Plant. SG barrels are undated. That is why it is dificult to tell when it was made. In addition, the plant skipped all over their assigned serial numbers during production so that it is possible that a 3,300,000 carbine could have been built before a 3,200,000 carbine! All other makes can be fairly reliably dated. Irwin Pederson/Saginaw SG/Saginaw S'G' carbines cannot be. Wish I could be of more help.

03-09-2003, 08:14 PM	#7
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks jimb,I didn't realize that.

03-10-2003, 07:23 AM	#8
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm a moderately advanced collector and have beaten my head against the proverbial brick wall over these Saginaws more than once. Just about the time you think you see a pattern, along comes another entry that changes everything! If there is one hard and fast rule about carbines, itis that there is no such thing as a hard and fast rule about carbines! LOL

04-30-2003, 09:07 AM	#9
corvetteman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: netherlands Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0)	In the rear slingwell is stamped a "3" Can you tell me what this means.?? Corvetteman

04-30-2003, 09:41 AM	#10
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	No. Various Saginaws have different letters and numbers stamped there. It would depend on who put the marking there and the size and style. Are there additional letters? how big? exactly where is it located? Which type stock is it? So many questions and so few answers......

04-30-2003, 03:35 PM	#11
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906 Trader Rating: (0)	I'll stay out of this. Saginaws seem to be really hard to ID.

04-30-2003, 05:43 PM	#12
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	Your are certainly right about that! To give just a few example of Saginaw markings.....IO, RSG, RMC, TN, Trimble, IO with numbers, IR-IP, RSG with numbers, IO/40A, U7, RSG/9A, 75E/RSG, RSG/105B and the list goes on......And that doesn't even touch the Saginaw S'G' markings or the IP marlkings! Boggles the mind, doesn't it!

04-30-2003, 10:35 PM	#13
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906 Trader Rating: (0)	Yes it does. Did they use almost everyone else's parts?

05-01-2003, 06:42 AM	#14
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	Those were just the markings in the sling bevels! Actually, Saginaw used mostly their own parts or subcontractor marked parts. Its just the stocks that have all of the different markings. That's what I love about carbines, just when you think you know what is correct, you discover another parts transfer from anothe manufacturer who got those parts from manufacturer number 3! LOL