reloading for the M1 Carbine - Page 2

Acropolis · 07-07-2008, 08:39 AM

I am getting a Auto-Ordnance M1 and plan to reload. After looking at several dies I noted that Lyman says roll crimp and RCBS says taper crimp and just "kiss" the rim. Everyone really stresses case length because the bullet head spaces on the case. CMP says to trim every time one reloads and state that 15 grains(max) of Win 296 behind a 110 grain hollow soft point is close duplicate to issue load.
Rainier has M1 bullets and since I use their bullets in all my hand guns, they are worth a try.
So my questions are: Roll or Taper crimp? Rainier bullets? Dies used.

BTW I don't hunt and just plan to target shoot at both indoor and out door
ranges.

rfc357 · 07-07-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wes

I remember reading an article about 20 years ago,and it stated that "soft points for the .30 carbine increased the "knockdown" power six times",or something like that,does that sound right?

How do you measure knock down power? How do you tell if it has been increased six times?

rfc357 · 07-07-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acropolis

I am getting a Auto-Ordnance M1 and plan to reload. After looking at several dies I noted that Lyman says roll crimp and RCBS says taper crimp and just "kiss" the rim. Everyone really stresses case length because the bullet head spaces on the case. CMP says to trim every time one reloads and state that 15 grains(max) of Win 296 behind a 110 grain hollow soft point is close duplicate to issue load.
Rainier has M1 bullets and since I use their bullets in all my hand guns, they are worth a try.
So my questions are: Roll or Taper crimp? Rainier bullets? Dies used.

BTW I don't hunt and just plan to target shoot at both indoor and out door
ranges.

Taper crimp. RCBS.

jimb2 · 07-07-2008, 05:29 PM

Use a taper crimp. Roll crimp isn't good for a carbinew since it headspaces on the case mouth. I don't use Rainier bullets anymore. They are fine at velocities up to around 1400 FPS. But a carbine shoots at around 1900 FPS. I find that those bullets begin loosing accuracy after around 40 rounds unless you clean the barrel in between. They just leave too much copper fouling in the barrel. You either need to reduce the velocity or go to a regular jacketed bullet.

Acropolis · 07-07-2008, 11:13 PM

Thanks to for the good response especially regarding the Rainier bullets. I had not considered velocity with the carbine, just used to my slow hand gun velocities.

jcwit · 07-08-2008, 10:01 PM

I reload for my carbines, and use my own cast bullets. Lee mould 311-100-2R, sized to .310, lubed with my own lube, 13 gr. IMR 4227. Claims 1800 fps really have no idea. I experience no leading, and good accuracy 2" at 75 yds, if my eyes are working on that day.

jimb2 · 07-08-2008, 10:23 PM

I use those cast bullets as well as the Lyman 130 gr one. No leading for me either,BUT.... Some carbines do not like lead bullets and will lead up the gas system. I had only one that did that out of about 30 that I shot cast bullets in. It was so bad that it took me several hours to clean the piston chamber. Most carbines like cast, but a few really hate them. And I found that that load pushed the bullets at 1750 avg. out of my carbines. Yes, I chrono'ed them.

livebythegun · 07-09-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD1991A1

The M1 carbine would make a much better home defense weapon if it were loaded with hollow points. I have been unable to find any commercially loaded hollow point ammo. I found an article from the American Rifleman which lists a load for the M1 carbine(110 gr. Speer .308 JHP with 15 gr of Win 296). I got the dies and shell holder, but before I start, I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Winchester CXP SuperX Hollow points. I shot a turtle the other day with these bullets and it blew it a good 15-20 feet out of the water.

jimb2 · 07-09-2008, 07:13 PM

Just be aware that some carbines have feeding problems with hollow points. I've had several that didn't like them. I usually stick to soft points. There is less chance of failure to feed. And that is a very important consideration if you hunt anything dangerous or use the carbine as a self-defense weapon.

livebythegun · 07-10-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimb2

Just be aware that some carbines have feeding problems with hollow points. I've had several that didn't like them. I usually stick to soft points. There is less chance of failure to feed. And that is a very important consideration if you hunt anything dangerous or use the carbine as a self-defense weapon.

My '43 Inland likes 'em. I've only shot 100 rounds of hollow points but no problems.

evanmarshall · 07-15-2008, 06:45 PM

Cor Bon loads a Barnes hp in their DPX line. My stock Saginaw Steering Gear feeds it reliably.

jimb2 · 07-15-2008, 07:09 PM

That is why I made the comment. DON"T try to use them on the say-so of someone else. Try them yourself. I can't think of a worse situation than buying them and finding out they jam is a life-or-death situation. Most of my carbine will function with them, but a few won't. Don't guess about your carbine. Know for certain.

Slash2 · 07-28-2008, 12:07 PM

I stumbled onto your forum while searching for some M1 reloading info, and you guys seem pretty knowledgeable, so I was hoping I could run a problem I'm having with my carbine by you.

I had some ejection problems yesterday that have me scratching my head.

This is a '43 Winchester with a lot of use, but it was working flawlessly until my extractor broke the other day. I was able to get a complete -u- flat top bolt in excellent shape on short notice. I checked the head space and I was good to go.

Yesterday at a shoot I was getting stove pipes (the empty case not ejected and caught between the bolt face and the breach) midway through the 15 rd GI magazines. Occasionally the new round would be partially feed with the empty still being held by the partially closed bolt.

I am shooting my own reloads, new brass, 14gr WC820, WSR primers.

I inspected the new bolt and the ejector, extractor and all springs were in good shape.

It didn't seem to be isolated to one magazine, but I can't be sure.

My only guess at this point is underpowered loads. My cases are coming out kind of sooty.

Do you have any thought as to which direction I should look?

Thanks

jimb2 · 07-28-2008, 09:16 PM

If your carbine is in good shape and you are still getting the stovepipe jams, then it probably is the ammo. Sooty cases are pretty normal with carbines. The other possible problem is the recoil spring. A weak spring can cause that as can a partially plugged gas port. Cleaning the gas port should be a last resort, so don't do it unless nothing else resolves the problem. Typically your problem is created by a bad extractor/spring or a weak recoil spring. Make sure you double check those two items.

Slash2 · 07-29-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimb2

If your carbine is in good shape and you are still getting the stovepipe jams, then it probably is the ammo. Sooty cases are pretty normal with carbines. The other possible problem is the recoil spring. A weak spring can cause that as can a partially plugged gas port. Cleaning the gas port should be a last resort, so don't do it unless nothing else resolves the problem. Typically your problem is created by a bad extractor/spring or a weak recoil spring. Make sure you double check those two items.

One thing I failed to mention, I recently replaced my recoil spring with a Wollf spring.... Hmmm. Me thinks I should stick with GI.

Where's the best place to order GI spring sets?

jimb2 · 07-29-2008, 04:48 PM

I'll say that is a strong possibility. Many guys have that feed/eject problem after putting in a Wolff spring. They are much stiffer than the original GI springs. Many of them are TOOOOOO stiff.

Acropolis · 08-04-2008, 02:56 PM

Per the CMP, I intend to use Win 296 behind a 110 gr Rainier round nose bullet. Probably with 14 gr to start. Rainier says they have two shooters using bullet and have no problem. One uses Hodgon.
My concern is the trim to length. CMP and RCBS both say 1.280. I think Lyman and some other say trim to should be 1.286, which CMP says is too long.
May I ask the experts what they are using?

jimb2 · 08-05-2008, 11:29 PM

I'm using 1.280. The problem I had with Rainiers wasn't that they don't shoot accurately. It was that the copper built up quickly in the barrel and accuracy went west after around 40 rounds or so. Clean the barrel, and accuracy was restored. I just didn't feel like cleaning the barrel four or five times during each range session.

Acropolis · 08-11-2008, 11:02 AM

I finally got a SAAMI data sheet for the M1 carbine by going to Accurate Arms. The trim to length is 1.280.
I have some Rainier bullets given to me. I'll give them a try and see how they work out and will keep an eye on the copper fouling.
Thanks for the information.
Nothing like experience.

07-07-2008, 08:39 AM	#21
Acropolis Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 18	New member I am getting a Auto-Ordnance M1 and plan to reload. After looking at several dies I noted that Lyman says roll crimp and RCBS says taper crimp and just "kiss" the rim. Everyone really stresses case length because the bullet head spaces on the case. CMP says to trim every time one reloads and state that 15 grains(max) of Win 296 behind a 110 grain hollow soft point is close duplicate to issue load. Rainier has M1 bullets and since I use their bullets in all my hand guns, they are worth a try. So my questions are: Roll or Taper crimp? Rainier bullets? Dies used. BTW I don't hunt and just plan to target shoot at both indoor and out door ranges.

07-07-2008, 05:29 PM	#24
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	Use a taper crimp. Roll crimp isn't good for a carbinew since it headspaces on the case mouth. I don't use Rainier bullets anymore. They are fine at velocities up to around 1400 FPS. But a carbine shoots at around 1900 FPS. I find that those bullets begin loosing accuracy after around 40 rounds unless you clean the barrel in between. They just leave too much copper fouling in the barrel. You either need to reduce the velocity or go to a regular jacketed bullet. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

07-08-2008, 10:23 PM	#27
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	I use those cast bullets as well as the Lyman 130 gr one. No leading for me either,BUT.... Some carbines do not like lead bullets and will lead up the gas system. I had only one that did that out of about 30 that I shot cast bullets in. It was so bad that it took me several hours to clean the piston chamber. Most carbines like cast, but a few really hate them. And I found that that load pushed the bullets at 1750 avg. out of my carbines. Yes, I chrono'ed them. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

07-09-2008, 07:13 PM	#29
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	Just be aware that some carbines have feeding problems with hollow points. I've had several that didn't like them. I usually stick to soft points. There is less chance of failure to feed. And that is a very important consideration if you hunt anything dangerous or use the carbine as a self-defense weapon. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

07-15-2008, 07:09 PM	#32
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	That is why I made the comment. DON"T try to use them on the say-so of someone else. Try them yourself. I can't think of a worse situation than buying them and finding out they jam is a life-or-death situation. Most of my carbine will function with them, but a few won't. Don't guess about your carbine. Know for certain. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

07-07-2008, 11:13 PM	#25
Acropolis Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 18	Thanks to for the good response especially regarding the Rainier bullets. I had not considered velocity with the carbine, just used to my slow hand gun velocities.

07-08-2008, 10:01 PM	#26
jcwit Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3	I reload for my carbines, and use my own cast bullets. Lee mould 311-100-2R, sized to .310, lubed with my own lube, 13 gr. IMR 4227. Claims 1800 fps really have no idea. I experience no leading, and good accuracy 2" at 75 yds, if my eyes are working on that day.

07-15-2008, 06:45 PM	#31
evanmarshall Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: midland,mi Posts: 2	Cor Bon loads a Barnes hp in their DPX line. My stock Saginaw Steering Gear feeds it reliably.

07-28-2008, 12:07 PM	#33
Slash2 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2	This may be a reloading problem I stumbled onto your forum while searching for some M1 reloading info, and you guys seem pretty knowledgeable, so I was hoping I could run a problem I'm having with my carbine by you. I had some ejection problems yesterday that have me scratching my head. This is a '43 Winchester with a lot of use, but it was working flawlessly until my extractor broke the other day. I was able to get a complete -u- flat top bolt in excellent shape on short notice. I checked the head space and I was good to go. Yesterday at a shoot I was getting stove pipes (the empty case not ejected and caught between the bolt face and the breach) midway through the 15 rd GI magazines. Occasionally the new round would be partially feed with the empty still being held by the partially closed bolt. I am shooting my own reloads, new brass, 14gr WC820, WSR primers. I inspected the new bolt and the ejector, extractor and all springs were in good shape. It didn't seem to be isolated to one magazine, but I can't be sure. My only guess at this point is underpowered loads. My cases are coming out kind of sooty. Do you have any thought as to which direction I should look? Thanks

07-28-2008, 09:16 PM	#34
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	If your carbine is in good shape and you are still getting the stovepipe jams, then it probably is the ammo. Sooty cases are pretty normal with carbines. The other possible problem is the recoil spring. A weak spring can cause that as can a partially plugged gas port. Cleaning the gas port should be a last resort, so don't do it unless nothing else resolves the problem. Typically your problem is created by a bad extractor/spring or a weak recoil spring. Make sure you double check those two items. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

07-29-2008, 04:48 PM	#36
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	I'll say that is a strong possibility. Many guys have that feed/eject problem after putting in a Wolff spring. They are much stiffer than the original GI springs. Many of them are TOOOOOO stiff. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

08-04-2008, 02:56 PM	#37
Acropolis Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 18	Trim to length Per the CMP, I intend to use Win 296 behind a 110 gr Rainier round nose bullet. Probably with 14 gr to start. Rainier says they have two shooters using bullet and have no problem. One uses Hodgon. My concern is the trim to length. CMP and RCBS both say 1.280. I think Lyman and some other say trim to should be 1.286, which CMP says is too long. May I ask the experts what they are using?

08-05-2008, 11:29 PM	#38
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	I'm using 1.280. The problem I had with Rainiers wasn't that they don't shoot accurately. It was that the copper built up quickly in the barrel and accuracy went west after around 40 rounds or so. Clean the barrel, and accuracy was restored. I just didn't feel like cleaning the barrel four or five times during each range session. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

08-11-2008, 11:02 AM	#39
Acropolis Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 18	Trim to length I finally got a SAAMI data sheet for the M1 carbine by going to Accurate Arms. The trim to length is 1.280. I have some Rainier bullets given to me. I'll give them a try and see how they work out and will keep an eye on the copper fouling. Thanks for the information. Nothing like experience.