universal m1 carbine

remchuck · 09-09-2006, 12:47 PM

i found this forum by accident looking for info on a universal m1 carbine i just bought on auction arms.i hope mine doesnt have any of the problems described on other posts.anywat i decided to join this forum because the people posting here seem knowledgable and courteous.i own many firearms of all types and am fortunate to live in a gun friendly state (for now).i always vote second amendment rights candidates first and foremost.anyway thanks for having me in your forum.

Gyrene · 09-10-2006, 12:09 AM

The Universal Carbines are not necessarily the best or most reliable of the carbines, it was commercial ventures, to capitalize on the fact that a lot of USGIs would like to have an M1 Carbine, like they carried in the WAR. US Manufactured M1 Carbines were not all that available (though I keep hearing that they were available, I never saw it, myself). I have several of the different manufacturers' M1 Carbines, and even though I like them and their concept, the original M1 Carbines were not the most reliable weapons, (you need M1 Carbine tools, such as: Bolt Disassembly/Assembly tool, Wrench for tightening the tappet valve (which drives the op rod back), as well as Headspace gages, and other gages to keep on top of the condition of your M1 Carbine).

Consider the ownership as being the best part of owning one. They are a part of US History for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. USGI M1 Carbines are going up in value, very fast, and the more original, the higher and faster the value is increasing. I saw a Postal Meter, and a Winchester, that the owners wanted $2,400.00 each for, recently. That is about $1,200.00 more than I have seen them sold for, and from what I heard the owners had to sell for quite a bit less than the $2,400.00 asking price.

If your Universal Carbine shoots well, then consider yourself blessed, keep it, shoot it, and maintain it. If not, keep your eyes open for a USGI M1 Carbine, and hope for the best.
`

jimb2 · 09-13-2006, 11:18 PM

WOW! those prices are over the edge! You can still pick up good USGI import marked carbines in the $500-$700 range. So unless you want a pristine "as manufactured" model, there is no reason to pay those kinds of prices. The last three I bought cost $450, $475 asnd $500. They were also fairly uncommon variants; and Underwood "B", an Underwood strikeout NPM and an Underwood strikeout Winchester. And I got them all within the last year. The Winchester arrived just a few weeks ago. Look around. There are much better prices than that. A friend of mine just picked up a nice Rock-Ola that looked to be all original except for the handguard for $600 last weekend. (no import marks) I don't know where some guys are getting those super inflated values.

mark308 · 09-14-2006, 02:34 PM

I have one and my wife loves it.

landtrain · 09-18-2006, 12:37 PM

Go to Jouster.com the other Carbine fourms and ask for steve. He has a very well written description of the good and bad parts of the Universal. Don't take his word as gospel but keep it in mind anytime you take the rifle out. I strongly recommend that you invest $30-$40 dollars and have a well known/respected gunsmith take a look at you rifle. If Steve does provide you with the write up, take it with you when visit the smith.

There are three or four versions of the Universal. The 1st used a cast receiver that accepted all of the GI parts. The 2nd was a 60% GI parts and 40% cast commercial parts. Barrel may or may not have been GI. The 3rd. used 75% of the parts that were cast. The barrel was made by 'others'. Trigger housing looked just like the GI version but it was cast aluminum. Stock was 'tree wood'. 4th. was an accident waiting to happen. Op slide was stamped/brazed with a hole in its side to move the bolt around. It had two recoil springs. Trigger housing was one inch thick cast aluminum. Retainer pins-hammer, trigger & trigger housing were mild steel and bent if you looked at them the wrong way. None of the parts were even surface hardened, and began to show after a few hundred rounds.

If the rifle has an aluminum trigger housing either narrow or wide be aware that it might be dangerous.

The best advice I can pass along is call you gun smith before you shoot any more.

PS: How much insurance does your wife have on you? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

JBS · 09-20-2006, 10:36 PM

I see by your profile that you are a carbine collector. Would you mind if I PM'd you... re: my carbine?

jimb2 · 09-20-2006, 10:44 PM

Landtrain isn't the only collector.....Ain't that so LT?

landtrain · 09-21-2006, 08:00 AM

Jimb2 is correct. I am a collector but only one of many hundreds in the US and abroad. Universal was one of 45 commercial carbine makers. The late versions were real junk guns. But when you consider that the average gun owner only fires a dozen rounds a year, even the late Universal would be a good gun. Feel free to e-mail me at landtrain2001@yahoo.com. I will try to answer any questions you might have. If I can't then I will try to find someone who can. My prime area of interest is mechanical. Why do they do that? I try to stay away from "is it a good price?" and "so and so has a Carbine up for auction--is it legit?"

Jouster.com is a good source of Carbine info. As is
The M1Carbineclub.com . This forum also has some excellent info sources such as JIMB2.

Don't be afraid to ask. Its your primary way to learn. Don't believe every thing you read. Self appointed experts are always ready to provide less than accurate advice. I've been playing with Carbines since the early 60's when I carried one in Viet-Nam . Had a DCM gun in 1961 but was forced to get rid of it when we shipped household goods for a change of station. "It Was Government Property--You Can't Ship It."

JBS · 09-21-2006, 01:19 PM

Landtrain, I happened upon a really nice Inland and was just curious about it. I found what I needed to know on another site. Thanks for the response.

jimb2 · 09-22-2006, 08:13 PM

Another good place for carbine info is the carbine forum at Your American Backyard Forum – the outdoors bulletin board . That site has some sticky notes for FAQs that can be very helpful to the beginning and advanced collector.

Gyrene · 10-02-2006, 02:58 PM

Landtrain - I try to be upbeat with those who have questions, and point out the positive side of what they are asking about. At the same time, I try to allude to the fact that there can be downsides, too!

Having been a Marine, that carried an M1 Garand, that is my first love, but the M1 Carbine concept was at least intriguing. So I got sort of hooked on them, too.

semper fi

landtrain · 10-02-2006, 03:29 PM

Due to the high cost of GI Carbines I have been concentrating on the commercial guns. They are still available in the two to two fifty range..There was 45 different makers. and some were made as well as the GI rifles. Most folks want that very first off the line Winchester or Rock-Ola. Good luck. I'm looking for original Mel Johnson .22 Spitfire Carbines. I have one rather unique gun by an unknown maker chambered in .257. Is not the .256 WinMag, made form a .357 necked down to .257 but a true .257 bullet in a .30 Carbine case. In January, 2005 I ran a complete list of Commercial Carbines in the CSP Jouster forum. I even have several Crosman BB Carbines and one that was called "The Clicker". The German gunmakers hired to rebuild US Arms at the end of WW2 used scrap Carbine stocks to make toy for local children by using , a broom handles for a barrel, a star shapped trigger that snapped a thin piece of wood making click click click sounds as the star is rotated. I too am fond of the Garand. I trained with that big heavy ugly mudder in basic and AIT back in 1960. Kill in front and cripple behind. Best !!!! firearm I ever fired a group with. I'm retired army working in the Pentagon as an anti terrorism officer. Stay in touch. The best bargin is the one you didn't buy.

seawolf · 10-05-2006, 09:56 PM

hello all.new member.have two universal carbines,and am having trouble with them going into battery for the last 3/8 or so.not an ammo or a cleanliness problem.they will go into battery from bolt lockback,but are difficult to open.any clues? yeah i know,i will buy a GI after i get finished paying for my uzi,ar15,ak 47's, and pistols.just want to keep them as occasional plinkers since i reload for that caliber as well.(no it's not the ammo.same problem with new factory)

landtrain · 10-06-2006, 08:33 AM

Seawolf. Go to CSP forum. I responded there to Jack in MS.

jimb2 · 10-06-2006, 07:32 PM

Hey Landtrain...does that sound like a short chamber problem???

landtrain · 10-10-2006, 08:19 AM

It could be a short chamber but I would have thought that it would have shown up before now. But, having said that, if the shooter had a batch of trimmed cases (1.285) but missed a long one (1.290) this could also have caused the hang up. I won't discount the gas pistion theory either. Try and shoot-try and shoot.

gunslinger · 12-20-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seawolf

hello all.new member.have two universal carbines,and am having trouble with them going into battery for the last 3/8 or so.not an ammo or a cleanliness problem.they will go into battery from bolt lockback,but are difficult to open.any clues? yeah i know,i will buy a GI after i get finished paying for my uzi,ar15,ak 47's, and pistols.just want to keep them as occasional plinkers since i reload for that caliber as well.(no it's not the ammo.same problem with new factory)

i seem to be having the same problem as seawolf .i havent shot it for a few year's . i gave it a feldstriping lubed it up and after a few round's it start'd doing the same thing .it's shot well for many year's . any info would help thx

landtrain · 12-22-2006, 01:41 PM

Don't remember if I answered you or not. If I didn't then---The main reason is the back of the Universal bolt. Unlike the GI bolt the hammer striker cut out is much wider than the GI bolt. On a GI Bolt, the hammer striker must align itself between the slots before it can hit the firing pin. The Universal bolt hammer striker can slide across the wide cut and hit the firing pin before the bolt lugs have fully seated. I usually recommend that you try using GI bolts. Finding one that fits the receiver cutout AND headspaces at the same time is a challange. All of this is best left to your gunsmith as he/she gets this complain quite often and usually has a few bolts on hand to switch and swap. PLEASE do not under estimate what 40,000 PSI can do to exposed human flesh and contact lenses. A POSITIVE SAFETY. Manually look at the bolt then slap the oprod home. Every shot. Wear safety glasses and keep the kids behind the firing line.

I choose to be politically incorrect and say "Have a very Merry Christmas".

Yorkieshome · 12-30-2006, 12:53 PM

Just a comment. If you have a young shooter these M-1 Carbines are the ticket. The recoil is almost none. My eight year old grand son dropped a deer in its tracks yesterday with a 110 grain lead nosed pushed at about 1900 fps muzzle. Out to about 150 yards these things are deadly on 150 to 250 pound animals with fairly thin skins. Can you imagine that.

jimb2 · 12-30-2006, 10:19 PM

Honestly, If I liked the kid at all, I'd never let him shoot a Universal. They are just too risky. Any other carbine would be ok, but not a Univ.

09-09-2006, 12:47 PM	#1
remchuck Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: nashville Posts: 348 Blog Entries: 1	universal m1 carbine i found this forum by accident looking for info on a universal m1 carbine i just bought on auction arms.i hope mine doesnt have any of the problems described on other posts.anywat i decided to join this forum because the people posting here seem knowledgable and courteous.i own many firearms of all types and am fortunate to live in a gun friendly state (for now).i always vote second amendment rights candidates first and foremost.anyway thanks for having me in your forum.

09-10-2006, 12:09 AM	#2
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	The Universal Carbines are not necessarily the best or most reliable of the carbines, it was commercial ventures, to capitalize on the fact that a lot of USGIs would like to have an M1 Carbine, like they carried in the WAR. US Manufactured M1 Carbines were not all that available (though I keep hearing that they were available, I never saw it, myself). I have several of the different manufacturers' M1 Carbines, and even though I like them and their concept, the original M1 Carbines were not the most reliable weapons, (you need M1 Carbine tools, such as: Bolt Disassembly/Assembly tool, Wrench for tightening the tappet valve (which drives the op rod back), as well as Headspace gages, and other gages to keep on top of the condition of your M1 Carbine). Consider the ownership as being the best part of owning one. They are a part of US History for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. USGI M1 Carbines are going up in value, very fast, and the more original, the higher and faster the value is increasing. I saw a Postal Meter, and a Winchester, that the owners wanted $2,400.00 each for, recently. That is about $1,200.00 more than I have seen them sold for, and from what I heard the owners had to sell for quite a bit less than the $2,400.00 asking price. If your Universal Carbine shoots well, then consider yourself blessed, keep it, shoot it, and maintain it. If not, keep your eyes open for a USGI M1 Carbine, and hope for the best. ` Last edited by Gyrene; 10-05-2006 at 12:17 AM.

09-13-2006, 11:18 PM	#3
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 703	WOW! those prices are over the edge! You can still pick up good USGI import marked carbines in the $500-$700 range. So unless you want a pristine "as manufactured" model, there is no reason to pay those kinds of prices. The last three I bought cost $450, $475 asnd $500. They were also fairly uncommon variants; and Underwood "B", an Underwood strikeout NPM and an Underwood strikeout Winchester. And I got them all within the last year. The Winchester arrived just a few weeks ago. Look around. There are much better prices than that. A friend of mine just picked up a nice Rock-Ola that looked to be all original except for the handguard for $600 last weekend. (no import marks) I don't know where some guys are getting those super inflated values. __________________ Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!

09-18-2006, 12:37 PM	#5
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	Universal carbine Go to Jouster.com the other Carbine fourms and ask for steve. He has a very well written description of the good and bad parts of the Universal. Don't take his word as gospel but keep it in mind anytime you take the rifle out. I strongly recommend that you invest $30-$40 dollars and have a well known/respected gunsmith take a look at you rifle. If Steve does provide you with the write up, take it with you when visit the smith. There are three or four versions of the Universal. The 1st used a cast receiver that accepted all of the GI parts. The 2nd was a 60% GI parts and 40% cast commercial parts. Barrel may or may not have been GI. The 3rd. used 75% of the parts that were cast. The barrel was made by 'others'. Trigger housing looked just like the GI version but it was cast aluminum. Stock was 'tree wood'. 4th. was an accident waiting to happen. Op slide was stamped/brazed with a hole in its side to move the bolt around. It had two recoil springs. Trigger housing was one inch thick cast aluminum. Retainer pins-hammer, trigger & trigger housing were mild steel and bent if you looked at them the wrong way. None of the parts were even surface hardened, and began to show after a few hundred rounds. If the rifle has an aluminum trigger housing either narrow or wide be aware that it might be dangerous. The best advice I can pass along is call you gun smith before you shoot any more. PS: How much insurance does your wife have on you? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

09-20-2006, 10:36 PM	#6
JBS Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 896 Images: 6	Landtrain I see by your profile that you are a carbine collector. Would you mind if I PM'd you... re: my carbine?

09-14-2006, 02:34 PM	#4
mark308 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 16	I have one and my wife loves it.

09-20-2006, 10:44 PM	#7
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 703	Landtrain isn't the only collector.....Ain't that so LT? __________________ Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!

09-21-2006, 08:00 AM	#8
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	Universal Carbine Jimb2 is correct. I am a collector but only one of many hundreds in the US and abroad. Universal was one of 45 commercial carbine makers. The late versions were real junk guns. But when you consider that the average gun owner only fires a dozen rounds a year, even the late Universal would be a good gun. Feel free to e-mail me at landtrain2001@yahoo.com. I will try to answer any questions you might have. If I can't then I will try to find someone who can. My prime area of interest is mechanical. Why do they do that? I try to stay away from "is it a good price?" and "so and so has a Carbine up for auction--is it legit?" Jouster.com is a good source of Carbine info. As is The M1Carbineclub.com . This forum also has some excellent info sources such as JIMB2. Don't be afraid to ask. Its your primary way to learn. Don't believe every thing you read. Self appointed experts are always ready to provide less than accurate advice. I've been playing with Carbines since the early 60's when I carried one in Viet-Nam . Had a DCM gun in 1961 but was forced to get rid of it when we shipped household goods for a change of station. "It Was Government Property--You Can't Ship It."

09-21-2006, 01:19 PM	#9
JBS Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 896 Images: 6	Landtrain, I happened upon a really nice Inland and was just curious about it. I found what I needed to know on another site. Thanks for the response.

09-22-2006, 08:13 PM	#10
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 703	Another good place for carbine info is the carbine forum at Your American Backyard Forum – the outdoors bulletin board . That site has some sticky notes for FAQs that can be very helpful to the beginning and advanced collector. __________________ Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!

10-02-2006, 02:58 PM	#11
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	Landtrain - I try to be upbeat with those who have questions, and point out the positive side of what they are asking about. At the same time, I try to allude to the fact that there can be downsides, too! Having been a Marine, that carried an M1 Garand, that is my first love, but the M1 Carbine concept was at least intriguing. So I got sort of hooked on them, too. semper fi

10-02-2006, 03:29 PM	#12
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	Universal Carbines Due to the high cost of GI Carbines I have been concentrating on the commercial guns. They are still available in the two to two fifty range..There was 45 different makers. and some were made as well as the GI rifles. Most folks want that very first off the line Winchester or Rock-Ola. Good luck. I'm looking for original Mel Johnson .22 Spitfire Carbines. I have one rather unique gun by an unknown maker chambered in .257. Is not the .256 WinMag, made form a .357 necked down to .257 but a true .257 bullet in a .30 Carbine case. In January, 2005 I ran a complete list of Commercial Carbines in the CSP Jouster forum. I even have several Crosman BB Carbines and one that was called "The Clicker". The German gunmakers hired to rebuild US Arms at the end of WW2 used scrap Carbine stocks to make toy for local children by using , a broom handles for a barrel, a star shapped trigger that snapped a thin piece of wood making click click click sounds as the star is rotated. I too am fond of the Garand. I trained with that big heavy ugly mudder in basic and AIT back in 1960. Kill in front and cripple behind. Best !!!! firearm I ever fired a group with. I'm retired army working in the Pentagon as an anti terrorism officer. Stay in touch. The best bargin is the one you didn't buy.

10-05-2006, 09:56 PM	#13
seawolf Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1	hello all.new member.have two universal carbines,and am having trouble with them going into battery for the last 3/8 or so.not an ammo or a cleanliness problem.they will go into battery from bolt lockback,but are difficult to open.any clues? yeah i know,i will buy a GI after i get finished paying for my uzi,ar15,ak 47's, and pistols.just want to keep them as occasional plinkers since i reload for that caliber as well.(no it's not the ammo.same problem with new factory) Last edited by seawolf; 10-05-2006 at 09:57 PM. Reason: misspelling

10-06-2006, 08:33 AM	#14
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	Seawolf. Go to CSP forum. I responded there to Jack in MS.

10-06-2006, 07:32 PM	#15
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 703	Hey Landtrain...does that sound like a short chamber problem??? __________________ Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!

10-10-2006, 08:19 AM	#16
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	Universal Carbine bolt travel It could be a short chamber but I would have thought that it would have shown up before now. But, having said that, if the shooter had a batch of trimmed cases (1.285) but missed a long one (1.290) this could also have caused the hang up. I won't discount the gas pistion theory either. Try and shoot-try and shoot.

12-22-2006, 01:41 PM	#18
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	Universal M1 Carbine not going into battery Don't remember if I answered you or not. If I didn't then---The main reason is the back of the Universal bolt. Unlike the GI bolt the hammer striker cut out is much wider than the GI bolt. On a GI Bolt, the hammer striker must align itself between the slots before it can hit the firing pin. The Universal bolt hammer striker can slide across the wide cut and hit the firing pin before the bolt lugs have fully seated. I usually recommend that you try using GI bolts. Finding one that fits the receiver cutout AND headspaces at the same time is a challange. All of this is best left to your gunsmith as he/she gets this complain quite often and usually has a few bolts on hand to switch and swap. PLEASE do not under estimate what 40,000 PSI can do to exposed human flesh and contact lenses. A POSITIVE SAFETY. Manually look at the bolt then slap the oprod home. Every shot. Wear safety glasses and keep the kids behind the firing line. I choose to be politically incorrect and say "Have a very Merry Christmas".

12-30-2006, 12:53 PM	#19
Yorkieshome Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 10	Just a comment. If you have a young shooter these M-1 Carbines are the ticket. The recoil is almost none. My eight year old grand son dropped a deer in its tracks yesterday with a 110 grain lead nosed pushed at about 1900 fps muzzle. Out to about 150 yards these things are deadly on 150 to 250 pound animals with fairly thin skins. Can you imagine that.

12-30-2006, 10:19 PM	#20
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 703	Honestly, If I liked the kid at all, I'd never let him shoot a Universal. They are just too risky. Any other carbine would be ok, but not a Univ. __________________ Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!