Just received Quality Hardware Carbine

Jaymo · 10-08-2006, 02:08 AM

Greetings from the Pacific N.W. I just received a really nice really original Quality Hardware and Mach. M1 Carbine from an older family member and from what he says he has owned it for many years without doing any changes to it. I am excited to get info from all of you with years of experience and from the books that have been suggested to me. I just got Larry Ruth's book, M1 Carbine Design, Developement and Production...at my local library.

Today I pulled the barrel/action assembly out of the stock for the firsat time and was interested to find that the whole assembly had been coated in a clear laquer including the barrel. The stock has not been refinished but also is coated in this clear coat. Should it be removed in time to a linseed oil finish ? I do have alot of bits and pieces of info and would appreciate help from all of you. Another interesting item is the rear flip site where one of the peep site holes has had the top half removed to make it look like an open site. One side of the flip site has an "s" on it and the other side has "GE-O" on it. Thanks in advance for any light you can shed and I look forward to meeting all of you. Best Regards, Jaymo

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 11:29 AM

sounds like a nice original Quality Hardware. can you post some pics.?? it sounds as if the coating was applied to the stock and got onto the metal as well. first find out exactly what kind of coating it is, and go from there. the leaf on the rear sight was V- notched possibly by a G.I. a who did this so that in low light conditions that upon peering through the peep portion of the sight, the right or left wing the the front sight would not be acquired instead of the blade portion of the front sight which is was should be seen throught the peep sight. i would leave that as is, its a part of the history of the rifle, and the correct rear sight for the rifle.

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 11:55 AM

Jaymo, here are a few pics of my Quality Hardware Machine Co. carbine, it a minty example.

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 11:56 AM

the acceptance mark on the stock.

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 11:59 AM

type 1 barrel band, winchester barrel.

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 12:01 PM

barrel proofs P-W in circle and W stamps.

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 12:02 PM

rear sight GE-Q.

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 12:03 PM

STU1 · 10-08-2006, 12:06 PM

last pic, sorry for the fuzzy pic of the barrel proofs forgot to put the camera in MACRO setting.

Jaymo · 10-08-2006, 07:52 PM

STU,
Thanks so much for the response and all the pics. It looks like our carbines are brothers separated at birth....ha ha. My serial range is 46953XX. At a glance my stock has the same Crossed Cannon cartouch as yours. My carbine has a ROCK-OLA barrel (the markings are VERY light and difficult to see) marked just down from the front site. The "p" is just visible 6" below the ROCK-OLA. ROCK-OLA is also stamped on the barrel near the gas cylinder and the flaming bomb right by the gas block. My handguard is of the 4 rivet variety marked "HI" inside, a Type IA barrel band marked "Q-TK". Trigger housing is marked "Inland" inside the domed box on the right side and the push safety and mag release are identical to yours. I just bought Craig Riesch's great book "US Carbines, Wartime Production" off of eBay for $15.00 + $2.50 s/h = $17.50. I bought if from a seller who I believe is well known on this forum, Nick Dailey who was great to deal with, has an excellent selection of M1 Carbine collector books and gun books in general and also sent along his price list of M1 Carbine Parts. The majority of his parts are USGI and trades are welcome. He can be reached at FOLCMOTE@AOL.COM.
Sorry for no pics at this time as I don't have a digital camera but have a new reason to have one now and will post some ASAP. My relative says he has a sling, oiler and a number of period magazines but I have not seen them yet, I appreciate your continued support and help in identifying all the bits and pieces, Jaymo

Jaymo · 10-08-2006, 08:10 PM

STU1,
I forgot to mention about the nice stand you have to display your "baby" for all to see. Did you make and design it yourself ? Do you usually display it in your den or right there on your dinner table ...ha ha. Looks great, I may have to make myself on of those...if you wouldn't mind. I would tell everybody it was your design. Thanks

STU1 · 10-09-2006, 04:03 PM

thanks Jay, i made the display stand which holds the carbines and AR-15 carbine (M4) and the full length battle rifle as well. one 6' piece of wood was all it took about cost $5 and my time and one small can of walnut stain $4 and i still have plenty of stain the red felt was free. also its easier to shot pics of the rifle in a stand.

STU1 · 10-09-2006, 04:04 PM

mine is also in the 4.6 mil s.n.# range.

STU1 · 10-09-2006, 04:07 PM

Otter · 10-09-2006, 06:06 PM

Anyone know when the bayonet lugs were added to the M1 Carbine?

Jaymo · 10-09-2006, 06:46 PM

STU1 or whomever,

What do you suppose is the deal with the difference in our handguards ? Yours being 2 rivets and mine being 4, is yours marked on the inside ?

What do you suppose I should do with the stock finish ? Should I remove the clearcoat and take it down to the bare wood and then oil it with the original linseed or similar ?

I noticed something strange while looking over my gun last evening and that is that the butt plate screw has actually protruded into the oiler cutout, so I backed it out a partial turn and it's OK now but there is a small hole there.

Thanks for your help and time.

jimb2 · 10-09-2006, 09:35 PM

When were they added? That is a two answer question. Original equipment vs rebuild....Original equipment, started in 1945, probably in Feb or March. A very few of the QHMCs may have had them installed at the very end of the production run. Other than that, only Winchester and Inland had them as original equipment. Now for part two, other carbines could have had them installed as upgrades at any point after that. It could have been done by a unit armourer or as an arsenal rebuild. The process of changing them over continued right up through and even after the Korean conflict. As witnessed by some of the recently sold CMP carbines, some of them never even got that upgrade.

Jaymo · 10-09-2006, 10:32 PM

STU1-

Riesch says the fourth group of serials for Quality Hardware is from
4,632,100 to 4,879,525.

Jaymo · 10-09-2006, 10:40 PM

jimb2-

Thanks very much for the background info. It's nice meeting you as I have seen your name around this forum quite a bit. Sometimes I think the more I study and read, the more there is to know. Thanks for making it all a little easier.

jimb2 · 10-10-2006, 10:50 AM

Now that sound like a guy who is just getting a good start! As Stu and I can tell you, the reality is slightly different. We have discovered that by the time you reach our level, we have discovered how little we really know and how nearly ignorant we actually are! There are so many gaps in records and documentation that we can never learn the full story. Many subcontractors; for example, are not and probably will never be known. Thousands of parts transfers took place for which there is no known documentation. For carbines like the Saginaw/IP group, there is no record of serial numbers vs production dates because they didn't use the serial numbers in any particular order. We have only a general concept because of barrel dates, and those sometimes cloud the issue instead of clearing it up. The more you learn, the less you know and the more aware of it you get!

10-08-2006, 02:08 AM	#1
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64	Just received Quality Hardware Carbine Greetings from the Pacific N.W. I just received a really nice really original Quality Hardware and Mach. M1 Carbine from an older family member and from what he says he has owned it for many years without doing any changes to it. I am excited to get info from all of you with years of experience and from the books that have been suggested to me. I just got Larry Ruth's book, M1 Carbine Design, Developement and Production...at my local library. Today I pulled the barrel/action assembly out of the stock for the firsat time and was interested to find that the whole assembly had been coated in a clear laquer including the barrel. The stock has not been refinished but also is coated in this clear coat. Should it be removed in time to a linseed oil finish ? I do have alot of bits and pieces of info and would appreciate help from all of you. Another interesting item is the rear flip site where one of the peep site holes has had the top half removed to make it look like an open site. One side of the flip site has an "s" on it and the other side has "GE-O" on it. Thanks in advance for any light you can shed and I look forward to meeting all of you. Best Regards, Jaymo

10-09-2006, 06:06 PM	#15
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 949 Images: 6	Anyone know when the bayonet lugs were added to the M1 Carbine? __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

10-09-2006, 09:35 PM	#17
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	When were they added? That is a two answer question. Original equipment vs rebuild....Original equipment, started in 1945, probably in Feb or March. A very few of the QHMCs may have had them installed at the very end of the production run. Other than that, only Winchester and Inland had them as original equipment. Now for part two, other carbines could have had them installed as upgrades at any point after that. It could have been done by a unit armourer or as an arsenal rebuild. The process of changing them over continued right up through and even after the Korean conflict. As witnessed by some of the recently sold CMP carbines, some of them never even got that upgrade. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

10-10-2006, 10:50 AM	#20
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	Now that sound like a guy who is just getting a good start! As Stu and I can tell you, the reality is slightly different. We have discovered that by the time you reach our level, we have discovered how little we really know and how nearly ignorant we actually are! There are so many gaps in records and documentation that we can never learn the full story. Many subcontractors; for example, are not and probably will never be known. Thousands of parts transfers took place for which there is no known documentation. For carbines like the Saginaw/IP group, there is no record of serial numbers vs production dates because they didn't use the serial numbers in any particular order. We have only a general concept because of barrel dates, and those sometimes cloud the issue instead of clearing it up. The more you learn, the less you know and the more aware of it you get! __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

10-08-2006, 11:29 AM	#2
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	sounds like a nice original Quality Hardware. can you post some pics.?? it sounds as if the coating was applied to the stock and got onto the metal as well. first find out exactly what kind of coating it is, and go from there. the leaf on the rear sight was V- notched possibly by a G.I. a who did this so that in low light conditions that upon peering through the peep portion of the sight, the right or left wing the the front sight would not be acquired instead of the blade portion of the front sight which is was should be seen throught the peep sight. i would leave that as is, its a part of the history of the rifle, and the correct rear sight for the rifle.

10-08-2006, 11:55 AM	#3
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	Jaymo, here are a few pics of my Quality Hardware Machine Co. carbine, it a minty example.

10-08-2006, 11:56 AM	#4
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	the acceptance mark on the stock.

10-08-2006, 11:59 AM	#5
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	type 1 barrel band, winchester barrel.

10-08-2006, 12:01 PM	#6
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	barrel proofs P-W in circle and W stamps.

10-08-2006, 12:02 PM	#7
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	rear sight GE-Q.

10-08-2006, 12:03 PM	#8
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30

10-08-2006, 12:06 PM	#9
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	last pic, sorry for the fuzzy pic of the barrel proofs forgot to put the camera in MACRO setting.

10-08-2006, 07:52 PM	#10
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64	STU, Thanks so much for the response and all the pics. It looks like our carbines are brothers separated at birth....ha ha. My serial range is 46953XX. At a glance my stock has the same Crossed Cannon cartouch as yours. My carbine has a ROCK-OLA barrel (the markings are VERY light and difficult to see) marked just down from the front site. The "p" is just visible 6" below the ROCK-OLA. ROCK-OLA is also stamped on the barrel near the gas cylinder and the flaming bomb right by the gas block. My handguard is of the 4 rivet variety marked "HI" inside, a Type IA barrel band marked "Q-TK". Trigger housing is marked "Inland" inside the domed box on the right side and the push safety and mag release are identical to yours. I just bought Craig Riesch's great book "US Carbines, Wartime Production" off of eBay for $15.00 + $2.50 s/h = $17.50. I bought if from a seller who I believe is well known on this forum, Nick Dailey who was great to deal with, has an excellent selection of M1 Carbine collector books and gun books in general and also sent along his price list of M1 Carbine Parts. The majority of his parts are USGI and trades are welcome. He can be reached at FOLCMOTE@AOL.COM. Sorry for no pics at this time as I don't have a digital camera but have a new reason to have one now and will post some ASAP. My relative says he has a sling, oiler and a number of period magazines but I have not seen them yet, I appreciate your continued support and help in identifying all the bits and pieces, Jaymo

10-08-2006, 08:10 PM	#11
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64	STU1, I forgot to mention about the nice stand you have to display your "baby" for all to see. Did you make and design it yourself ? Do you usually display it in your den or right there on your dinner table ...ha ha. Looks great, I may have to make myself on of those...if you wouldn't mind. I would tell everybody it was your design. Thanks

10-09-2006, 04:03 PM	#12
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	thanks Jay, i made the display stand which holds the carbines and AR-15 carbine (M4) and the full length battle rifle as well. one 6' piece of wood was all it took about cost $5 and my time and one small can of walnut stain $4 and i still have plenty of stain the red felt was free. also its easier to shot pics of the rifle in a stand.

10-09-2006, 04:04 PM	#13
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30	mine is also in the 4.6 mil s.n.# range.

10-09-2006, 04:07 PM	#14
STU1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 30

10-09-2006, 06:46 PM	#16
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64	STU1 or whomever, What do you suppose is the deal with the difference in our handguards ? Yours being 2 rivets and mine being 4, is yours marked on the inside ? What do you suppose I should do with the stock finish ? Should I remove the clearcoat and take it down to the bare wood and then oil it with the original linseed or similar ? I noticed something strange while looking over my gun last evening and that is that the butt plate screw has actually protruded into the oiler cutout, so I backed it out a partial turn and it's OK now but there is a small hole there. Thanks for your help and time.

10-09-2006, 10:32 PM	#18
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64	STU1- Riesch says the fourth group of serials for Quality Hardware is from 4,632,100 to 4,879,525.

10-09-2006, 10:40 PM	#19
Jaymo Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Puget Sound Area, Washington State Posts: 64	jimb2- Thanks very much for the background info. It's nice meeting you as I have seen your name around this forum quite a bit. Sometimes I think the more I study and read, the more there is to know. Thanks for making it all a little easier.