M1 Carbine "issues"

blakedt · 10-29-2007, 11:10 PM

i just got one of the new m1 carbines from kahr and im having a problem with the gun when shooting it would jam which i didnt think was too abnormal considering the gun is brand new but upon shooting i noticed that the gun was actually "popping" out the primers in the rounds into the action of the gun and then ejecting the round leaving the primers to jam ip the gun i know its not the ammo tried 4 different brands all new and two new magazines i took the rifle apart and thoroughly cleaned it and noticed the gas piston nut was loose which i think could be the problem anyone have expierience with this or any knowledge of this issue ?

M14man · 10-29-2007, 11:26 PM

Having several carbines, I can't conceive what would cause it to do that. Return it to the manufacturer with some of the shells.

jimb2 · 11-01-2007, 11:39 AM

It sounds like excessive headspace. That would be a dangerous situation. Send it back and don't fire it again. The primers should NEVER fall out when firing. Excess headspace is the only thing that I know of that could cause that problem. If you continue to fire it, you could have it blow up in your face!

lostboy · 11-05-2007, 03:48 PM

Hello , I would like to know how excessive headspace can cause the loss of a primer , please explain .
The only time I lost a primer after firing the cartridge was on a AR15 and the cartrigde was overloaded so after the shot the primer was gone due to high pressure .what I heard around is that when reloading a few times a m1 low quality brass the hole where the primer sits get larger and the primer get lost but as Blaketd states hi tried several different brands and all do the same , As I also buyed a Kahr 2 years ago I can only say that the quality of these M1 are much lower then the military ones ,but my Inland needed a new Barrel and they are very hard to get here in europe

oldjarhead · 11-14-2007, 12:13 AM

Blake, it sounds as if the problem is most likely the loose gas piston nut. The loose nut may have allowed the gas piston to block the gas port which would allow excessive pressure to back up towards the cartridge and pop the primer before the piston could build up enough gas pressure to eject the case. Thus making you think everything is functioning correctly and you have an ammo problem. I agree with M14 and Jimb2, take the rifle in to a gunsmith or back to the dealer and have them check it out. I don't find any torque specifications for the gas piston nut in any of my references but the dealer and/or manufacturer should have specs for their guns. This inspection should be accomplished at the manufacturer's expense under warranty. A loose gas piston nut is negligence on the part of Kahr.

jimb2 · 11-14-2007, 10:14 PM

While most folksw think the carbine headspaces on the mouth, it often doesn't. The carbine uses a tapered case and may "headspace on the taper. If the chamber mouth is too far from the breech, the primer can drive the case forward to the chamber mouth when it ignites. That allows the primer to back completely out of the case. Then when the chage goes off, the case moves backward to lodge under the ejector. There is usually an easy way to find out. Measure the case length before firing, then again after firing. The case will exhibit an abnormal amount of stretch.

blakedt · 11-24-2007, 11:27 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys oldjarhead i did find the gas piston nut very loose when i stripped it down for cleaning so i think im gonna take the gun to my gun smith and do an inspection before shooting the rifle again... again everyone thanks for the help

ouch · 11-25-2007, 09:24 PM

Of course these weapons are made by ex-moonies. Sounds like you are getting excessive headspace for some reason. Blake is probably right.

oldjarhead · 11-28-2007, 10:47 AM

Blakedt...what kind of ammo are you using? Just curious.

blakedt · 12-20-2007, 06:40 PM

i tried several different kinds oldjarhead Magtech, Federal(american eagle), and even steelcase wolf all the brass for sure popped out primers to tell you the truth i cant remember if the wolf did or not ... on another note i also tightened the gas piston nut up not to any specific torque but what i thought seemed tight enough and took the gun to a range and there is the same problem almost seemed worse to tell you the truth im just wondering if some how there is some kind of play that is allowing the primer to back out cause i believe the rear of the brass should be sitting pretty flush against the bolt which seems to me that there wouldnt be any room for the primer to push out ?? jimb2 said something similar

jimb2 · 12-20-2007, 07:52 PM

The more you tell us, the more it sounds like headspace problems. Here is a little test. When the bolt closes on a loaded round, try to wiggle the bolt forward and back. You should not be able to move it even the tiniest amount. If you can move it at all, then there is an excess of headspace and the primers can push the case forward when the primer goes off.

nathangdad · 12-20-2007, 08:44 PM

I am just wondering if your ammunition might not be to blame. Is it old? Did someone reload it too hot? Is it from some relatively unknown foreign maufacturer? Before doing anything else I would buy a box of ammunition from a major manufacturer. If the problem persists contact the manufacturer and make plans to return the gun and the unfired ammo from the major manufacturer. They should fix or replace their gun if it is at fault.

oldjarhead · 12-21-2007, 12:30 AM

Like Jimb2 states, the more you tell us the more it sounds like a head space situation. I would, without a doubt, contact Kahr and have them either replace or refund to you or make arrangments for you to take the thing to a gunsmithof your choice to have theproblem corrected AT KAHR's EXPENSE. Better yet, take the thing back to the dealer, get a refund, and order one from CMP. (there's some options for you) The head space should have definately been checked at the factory. You've used good quality ammo (except for the Wolf) and the problem persists; I don't think it's the ammo. Keep us in the know.

Orlando · 12-21-2007, 05:53 AM

Well its is a KAHR, theres your problem

oldjarhead · 12-22-2007, 10:55 PM

Confuscious says "Never speak unkindly of another man's assets, you may share the same fox-hole someday".

Orlando · 12-23-2007, 11:35 AM

Confuscious laso says "you get what you pay for" Well sometimes anyway

oldjarhead · 12-23-2007, 01:03 PM

Can't argue with that!
Sometimes it pays to do a little extensive research before you buy.
I purchased a couple Helwans 9mm a few years back...ouch! The steel was so soft, the hammer pounded the little b**tard so bad they became worthless for anything other than a paper weight. I gave them to my ex. Hey, I had to get some satisfaction other than being rid of her. Anyway, I have always done my reseach since.
But keep in mind, too, that people buy what they can afford at the time.

Orlando · 12-23-2007, 02:00 PM

"gave it to my ex" Ha, I about chocked on that one! I wasn't trying to slam anyone but for the price of a Kahr or less he could have got a CMP USGI Carbine, anyway good luck with you carbine. Merry Christmas guys

oldjarhead · 12-23-2007, 02:58 PM

Actually, for less than what one pays for the replica, you can get a true blue-blood that touts a glorious history. I find, however, that many don't like to have to provide the information and meet the requirements made by the CMP...don't know why...it's no big deal. To me it is a simple process, it's good for 3 years, and you don't have all the federal and state paperwork to fill out at the time of purchase like you do in a store.
Merry Christmas to you, my friend.
Merry Christmas to all of you!

jimb2 · 12-24-2007, 10:12 PM

Plus, if you live close like I do, you can got to one of their stores and drool....I mean browse, and take your pick of whatever is in the racks. Its nice to be able to pick it out rather than take the luck of the draw. I live about 125 miles from the North Store.

10-29-2007, 11:10 PM	#1
blakedt Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0)	M1 Carbine "issues" i just got one of the new m1 carbines from kahr and im having a problem with the gun when shooting it would jam which i didnt think was too abnormal considering the gun is brand new but upon shooting i noticed that the gun was actually "popping" out the primers in the rounds into the action of the gun and then ejecting the round leaving the primers to jam ip the gun i know its not the ammo tried 4 different brands all new and two new magazines i took the rifle apart and thoroughly cleaned it and noticed the gas piston nut was loose which i think could be the problem anyone have expierience with this or any knowledge of this issue ?

11-01-2007, 11:39 AM	#3
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	It sounds like excessive headspace. That would be a dangerous situation. Send it back and don't fire it again. The primers should NEVER fall out when firing. Excess headspace is the only thing that I know of that could cause that problem. If you continue to fire it, you could have it blow up in your face! __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

11-14-2007, 10:14 PM	#6
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	While most folksw think the carbine headspaces on the mouth, it often doesn't. The carbine uses a tapered case and may "headspace on the taper. If the chamber mouth is too far from the breech, the primer can drive the case forward to the chamber mouth when it ignites. That allows the primer to back completely out of the case. Then when the chage goes off, the case moves backward to lodge under the ejector. There is usually an easy way to find out. Measure the case length before firing, then again after firing. The case will exhibit an abnormal amount of stretch. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

11-25-2007, 09:24 PM	#8
ouch Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ridgerun, Mo Posts: 184 Trader Rating: (0)	for 800 dollars you would think they would test fire the weapon Of course these weapons are made by ex-moonies. Sounds like you are getting excessive headspace for some reason. Blake is probably right.

12-20-2007, 07:52 PM	#11
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	The more you tell us, the more it sounds like headspace problems. Here is a little test. When the bolt closes on a loaded round, try to wiggle the bolt forward and back. You should not be able to move it even the tiniest amount. If you can move it at all, then there is an excess of headspace and the primers can push the case forward when the primer goes off. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

10-29-2007, 11:26 PM	#2
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 364 Trader Rating: (0)	Having several carbines, I can't conceive what would cause it to do that. Return it to the manufacturer with some of the shells.

11-05-2007, 03:48 PM	#4
lostboy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 2 Trader Rating: (0)	Hello , I would like to know how excessive headspace can cause the loss of a primer , please explain . The only time I lost a primer after firing the cartridge was on a AR15 and the cartrigde was overloaded so after the shot the primer was gone due to high pressure .what I heard around is that when reloading a few times a m1 low quality brass the hole where the primer sits get larger and the primer get lost but as Blaketd states hi tried several different brands and all do the same , As I also buyed a Kahr 2 years ago I can only say that the quality of these M1 are much lower then the military ones ,but my Inland needed a new Barrel and they are very hard to get here in europe

11-14-2007, 12:13 AM	#5
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 680 Trader Rating: (0)	Blake, it sounds as if the problem is most likely the loose gas piston nut. The loose nut may have allowed the gas piston to block the gas port which would allow excessive pressure to back up towards the cartridge and pop the primer before the piston could build up enough gas pressure to eject the case. Thus making you think everything is functioning correctly and you have an ammo problem. I agree with M14 and Jimb2, take the rifle in to a gunsmith or back to the dealer and have them check it out. I don't find any torque specifications for the gas piston nut in any of my references but the dealer and/or manufacturer should have specs for their guns. This inspection should be accomplished at the manufacturer's expense under warranty. A loose gas piston nut is negligence on the part of Kahr.

11-24-2007, 11:27 PM	#7
blakedt Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks for all the replies guys oldjarhead i did find the gas piston nut very loose when i stripped it down for cleaning so i think im gonna take the gun to my gun smith and do an inspection before shooting the rifle again... again everyone thanks for the help

11-28-2007, 10:47 AM	#9
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 680 Trader Rating: (0)	Blakedt...what kind of ammo are you using? Just curious.

12-20-2007, 06:40 PM	#10
blakedt Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3 Trader Rating: (0)	i tried several different kinds oldjarhead Magtech, Federal(american eagle), and even steelcase wolf all the brass for sure popped out primers to tell you the truth i cant remember if the wolf did or not ... on another note i also tightened the gas piston nut up not to any specific torque but what i thought seemed tight enough and took the gun to a range and there is the same problem almost seemed worse to tell you the truth im just wondering if some how there is some kind of play that is allowing the primer to back out cause i believe the rear of the brass should be sitting pretty flush against the bolt which seems to me that there wouldnt be any room for the primer to push out ?? jimb2 said something similar

12-20-2007, 08:44 PM	#12
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,252 Trader Rating: (0)	ammo issue I am just wondering if your ammunition might not be to blame. Is it old? Did someone reload it too hot? Is it from some relatively unknown foreign maufacturer? Before doing anything else I would buy a box of ammunition from a major manufacturer. If the problem persists contact the manufacturer and make plans to return the gun and the unfired ammo from the major manufacturer. They should fix or replace their gun if it is at fault.

12-21-2007, 12:30 AM	#13
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 680 Trader Rating: (0)	Like Jimb2 states, the more you tell us the more it sounds like a head space situation. I would, without a doubt, contact Kahr and have them either replace or refund to you or make arrangments for you to take the thing to a gunsmithof your choice to have theproblem corrected AT KAHR's EXPENSE. Better yet, take the thing back to the dealer, get a refund, and order one from CMP. (there's some options for you) The head space should have definately been checked at the factory. You've used good quality ammo (except for the Wolf) and the problem persists; I don't think it's the ammo. Keep us in the know.

12-21-2007, 05:53 AM	#14
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 484 Trader Rating: (0)	Well its is a KAHR, theres your problem

12-22-2007, 10:55 PM	#15
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 680 Trader Rating: (0)	Confuscious says "Never speak unkindly of another man's assets, you may share the same fox-hole someday".

12-23-2007, 11:35 AM	#16
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 484 Trader Rating: (0)	Confuscious laso says "you get what you pay for" Well sometimes anyway

12-23-2007, 01:03 PM	#17
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 680 Trader Rating: (0)	Can't argue with that! Sometimes it pays to do a little extensive research before you buy. I purchased a couple Helwans 9mm a few years back...ouch! The steel was so soft, the hammer pounded the little b**tard so bad they became worthless for anything other than a paper weight. I gave them to my ex. Hey, I had to get some satisfaction other than being rid of her. Anyway, I have always done my reseach since. But keep in mind, too, that people buy what they can afford at the time.

12-23-2007, 02:00 PM	#18
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 484 Trader Rating: (0)	"gave it to my ex" Ha, I about chocked on that one! I wasn't trying to slam anyone but for the price of a Kahr or less he could have got a CMP USGI Carbine, anyway good luck with you carbine. Merry Christmas guys

12-23-2007, 02:58 PM	#19
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 680 Trader Rating: (0)	Actually, for less than what one pays for the replica, you can get a true blue-blood that touts a glorious history. I find, however, that many don't like to have to provide the information and meet the requirements made by the CMP...don't know why...it's no big deal. To me it is a simple process, it's good for 3 years, and you don't have all the federal and state paperwork to fill out at the time of purchase like you do in a store. Merry Christmas to you, my friend. Merry Christmas to all of you!

12-24-2007, 10:12 PM	#20
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 496 Trader Rating: (0)	Plus, if you live close like I do, you can got to one of their stores and drool....I mean browse, and take your pick of whatever is in the racks. Its nice to be able to pick it out rather than take the luck of the draw. I live about 125 miles from the North Store. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...