My first, what do you think??

MADMAX · 12-06-2002, 02:29 PM

Hi im a new user

.

I'm from Holland and I read this forum from time to time to get some good tips on the good ol M1 carabine

.

well now(at the age of 20), i'm finally able to buy my gun(our laws are more strict on getting guns(it takes about 1,5 years to get a licence, etc).

I'm going to buy a M1 Carabine and I want to use it to shoot in my country's DSR(Dynamic Service Rifle, hence the name

) class:assult: .

I'm going to convert the old M1 to get the best out of it for this class:

-Replace the wooden stock with the Choate poly riflestock
-Add a pro-point 4 reddot using a B-square mount
-Buy a couple of 30rnd mags(5 or 6)
-Add a homemade stickgrip
-Add a homemade mount for a Tac-Lite and Laser(and the lamp and Laser of cource

)

In all a major refit...

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF IT????

Why would I convert the good old M1 like this and instead just take a AR-15 or something like that you might ask?

Because im still a student living at home: not so much income right

? In my country a M1(semiauto) is about 150$, a 30rnd mag 7 to 15$, all other items are the same price as in the states. A lot cheaper than a AR-15 or something like that...

I found a nice M1 (made by Springfield, 12-1943) with the choate stock, a B-square mount and a 30rnd for 175$. all in good condition

.

well I hope to get some feedback on my idea,

Wouter Spruijt (Holland)

NRAJOE · 12-06-2002, 02:52 PM

Sounds good to me brother! Gotta work with what you have and it sounds like it will be nice when you get done with it...(remember to post photos when your done!) Good luck, good shooting!

PAPA G · 12-06-2002, 03:03 PM

nice to have a brother from Holland check in!!! when you get the carbine set up, post some pictures of it, and don't be a stranger!!!

MADMAX · 12-06-2002, 05:08 PM

Hy guys,

tnx for the replys, i'm accepted in da clan

.
well I do have a digital camera(no, I don't need a scanner or software

(Calvin)). so, if I get it I'll post the photo's soon!

i do have a Impression of what Ã*t would look like made from pictures I found on the Net(it's not that bad, made it with photoshop

). Post?

If U want to see how we do DSR in Holland, check our DSR site:

http://www.aps-dsr.nl/

Click on "foto's" in the upper bar and then click on any photo to see a collection of photo's from that match. (Go wild on the AR-15's, SIG550-551's, AUG's's, FN FAL's, etc. **** the Rilfe ban, live in Holland

!).

Well, can you guys give me some advice on the differences between the MK1 and MK2 bolt's(except one is flat and the other round

)?

BattleRifleG3 · 12-06-2002, 06:09 PM

Interesting the price of M1 carbines compared to ARs. Here a carbine is at least $400, more like $600 for decent military ones. One can get an AR for $600 and up, and they're made here. I hate to think what an AR would cost over there after being exported and all.
One thing I wonder is what carbine ammo costs over there. Here, you can get 223 for $0.10 per round for cheap Wolf, to $0.20 per round for steel core SS109, and that's on the low end. M1 Carbine ammo is $0.18 per round at the lowest, but usually more. 7.62x39mm is $0.07 to $0.10 per round for foreign ammo, and way more for domestic. 308 averages about $0.15 per round.
Here, people primarily get M1 Carbines because they're what our soldiers carried in WWII.

Calvin · 12-06-2002, 10:21 PM

Sounds like a plan, MadMax. Post the pics when you get done. I would be interested in seeing it when it's finished.
I recommend the Type 2 as it is the better choice. The Type 2's were used in the M2 and M3 carbines. Type 1's were strictly for M1's.
BTW, I USED to have a digital camera. However, the sister-out-law never brought the **** thing back. The only thing I had to post any pics with was a diskette that I had taken pics of BEFORE the camera disappeared. Our computer got hit with a virus, and the download program was wiped out. The wife got it fixed, but then the disk came up missing. Still haven't found the disk, but it will surely pop up soon because I am buying a new Nikon digital camera. It's going in the safe, and I'm putting my Shepherd in front of it, just in case...

wes · 12-06-2002, 11:34 PM

You say this is a Springfield M-1 carbine? They made aftermarket receivers,but they did not make receivers for the Government. On the back of the receiver there should be a makers stamp,if you have an adjustable rear sight it may be under it. Let us know,and Welcome Madmax.

MADMAX · 12-09-2002, 02:46 PM

Hy guys(what al lot of questions!),

G3:
M1's in holland start at 150$(good quality). you can get them from a low as 75$ but they are not that good then. A AR-15 starts form 800$(2nd hand) to 1400$(new)

Indeed, very pricy....

Another example: the Choate stock is around 60$ in the US, imported to holland it cost's 275$

!!!!

I think you can understand that i'm very happy with finding a good quality M1 WITH the choatestock AND a scopemount for just 170$!

Ammo here goes by the 1000rnd(boxes are rare):

.30: 375$

.223: 210$
.308: 300$
7.62x39 160$

This giant price diference is because we don't have any real ammo producers in holland. we manly depend on surplus .223/.308 NATO and ex-USSR 7.62x39 ammunition. .30 is rarely produced in all of Europe so that explains the high price.

Reloading is very populair in holland. it not only gives better quality but also saves al lot of $$$. what you save varys wildly from caliber to caliber.

Example: reloaded .30 goes for als little as 120$ a 1000 but .223 for only 190$!

In holland we buy the M1 because its a very cheap large calliber rifle (and cheap ammo if you make it Ur self) and because there are many competitions organized just for the M1(more then any other)

Calvin:
Tnx for the tip

, The one I want to buy has a Mk1 bolt. if I have the money, can I easly change the MK1 for the MK2 bolt?

(U do have lousy excuses for those pic's

). U better protect the cam extra with Ur M1 and a 1000rnds!

Wes:
Well, I take the M1 out of the stock to check its condition(good), but i did not check under the scopemount but the barrel had a stamp: "Springfield 12-1943". So I guess that the rest of the weapon is also from springfield and from december 1943. what do U mean with "Goverment"?

My Riflebook says that Springfield DID Produce M1's form 1942 to 1945...

Well hope to hear from you guys soon(tnx for the warm welcome!

),

MADMAX

landtrain · 12-09-2002, 02:49 PM

Wouter. You say its a 1943 Springfield. I believe you have a genuine US made .30 Cal Carbine but you somehow reported the identification of its bigger brother the M1 Garand. The Carbine weighs 5.5 pounds while the Garand weighs 9.9. The Carbine is 34 inches overall while the Garand is 51 or more. The Carbine round is 2.9 inches while the 30-06 round is almost 4 inches. The Garand will NOT accept 15 or 30 round clips and the Carbine will not accept 8 round en-bloc chargers. What I would rerally like to know is the information stamped on the rear of the receiver either under the rear sight or behind it. Look at the muzzle. Is there any stampings just to the rear of the front sight? Having ask all those questions, I glad to know you are even allowed to own personal firearms in Holland and I fear the restrictions you accept as commom place are beginning to be implemented in the US. Your plans for your rifle soind great. Its a fine old war horse and will give you many hours of shooting fun or compitition. Good luck and may you only hit the "X Ring". E-mail me with the data. I am a collector and have a lot of reference manuals so I might be able to help with the history. dandjent@infi.net

Dan.

MADMAX · 12-09-2002, 03:31 PM

Hy land train,

Tnx for the offer!

I'm quite familiar with weapons (not only M1 Carabines and M1A Garant's

), I'm A real Gun-Nut! :assult:

But tnx for explaining the difference(I someone didn't know the difference between the two rifles they do now, great

!).

It's a real M1 carabine with the choate polymer rifle stock instead of the wooden and a Scopemount. I did check the barrel(but not the reciever) and it said: "Springfield 12-1943".

To make a lot of things clear for all you guys, I'll go to the shop Thursday(Ãf all goes well) and turn the damm thing inside out

!

(I'll send U all the stamp info i can find then Land train

)

I'll also take my digital Cam to make some pic's(also some detailed) and post them, see whay all U guys think, right?

Well, we ARE allowed to have fire arms but our laws are VERY tight...

To give U some Impressions:
-AT LEAST 1 year member of a shooting club and a 3 moth trail period(15 months in all)
-No automatics
-No .50 pistols
-No folding stocks or systems that allow to reduce the size of the weapon
-No weapons derived from Sub-machine guns that shoot pistol caliber ammo
-No Silencers
-No "Unwished" weapons: like Belfeds, GPMG's, SAW's, Miniguns, shotguns with more then 2 rounds(even pumps!) explosive weapons, hidden weapons, tazers, mace, etc.
-No mag restrictions(so we CAN have 100rnd drums:P)
-U MUST own a vault or safe for your weapon and keep it there in good condition if not in use
-In the safe or vault u must store you're ammo and mags in seperate inner vaults, away from the weapon.
-Regular checks from your local police that you obey the law on guns (4 to 8 times a year, unannounced

), failing to comply means you lose your licence for 6 years or longer.
-Registration of the number of times u shoot a year. The amount of "shoot-turns" gives U the right for more weapons(12 for 1 up to a maximum of 35 turns for 5 weapons, Nomore!)

and so on....

Looks like hell, but I think (Personaly) that these laws give guns only to people that are resposible-disiplined shooters and keep gun related accidents and crime to a absolute minimum(we have strongest lwas in all of Europe)---> Start a X-tra Topic

?

U can still have a semi-auto HK51 with Normal stock with 30rnd mags or a Sig 550 Commando with 3 30rnd mags together, sounds not that bad to me

!

What Du U Guys think of the Choate stock? any opinions???

MADMAX

MADMAX · 12-09-2002, 04:18 PM

I was browsing trough the user profiles(learn to know U guys

)....

NRAJOE, PAPA G an CALVIN have the same birthdate?!

....31 december 1969....

Are U guys triplets, coincidence, or something else???

Somebody explain????

MADMAX

wes · 12-09-2002, 05:08 PM

Choate makes some of the best.

MADMAX · 12-20-2002, 01:10 PM

Hi guys,

here is the sample picture I promised

!
I went to the store and took a few pictures of the M1 i'm gonna buy and laid my accesories against it.

Pretty cool don't you think? Should be enoug to do some dynamic courses! :assult:

For landtrain: the serial nuber on the reciever is 4889463
hope u find some extra data/history on this...

and im stills stuck with the question why a lot of you guys have the same birthdate in your profile (31dec 1969)???

PAPA G · 12-20-2002, 02:00 PM

looks real good MadMax!!!:nod:

wes · 12-20-2002, 09:59 PM

For that serial number it should be an Inland. Probably around 1943-44. Looks good.

MADMAX · 12-22-2002, 11:27 AM

Hi guys,

Landtrain gave me a 2 full page description on my m1, Amazig!:nod:

If any of U guys want to know more on your gun what you didn't know, mail him ur number!

Thx for the comment guys, just see what u can do with the m1:
Just a little tuning here, different stock there and some loving hard work...

By for now,

MADMAX

Manitoba · 12-26-2002, 05:47 PM

u know what they say

Once.. is circumstance
Twice... is coincidence
Thrice... is conspiracy

and that's one very cool weapon.

jimb2 · 01-05-2003, 07:49 PM

Your receiver is an Inland built around May of 1944. It sounds like the carbine may have a Springfield replacement barrel. From the pictures, the carbine has gone through at least one rebuild. Hope this helps you get a little more understanding of the carbine you have.

12-06-2002, 02:29 PM	#1
MADMAX Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maarssen, HOLLAND (12 miles from Amsterdam) Posts: 12	My first, what do you think?? Hi im a new user . I'm from Holland and I read this forum from time to time to get some good tips on the good ol M1 carabine. well now(at the age of 20), i'm finally able to buy my gun(our laws are more strict on getting guns(it takes about 1,5 years to get a licence, etc). I'm going to buy a M1 Carabine and I want to use it to shoot in my country's DSR(Dynamic Service Rifle, hence the name) class:assult: . I'm going to convert the old M1 to get the best out of it for this class: -Replace the wooden stock with the Choate poly riflestock -Add a pro-point 4 reddot using a B-square mount -Buy a couple of 30rnd mags(5 or 6) -Add a homemade stickgrip -Add a homemade mount for a Tac-Lite and Laser(and the lamp and Laser of cource) In all a major refit... WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF IT???? Why would I convert the good old M1 like this and instead just take a AR-15 or something like that you might ask? Because im still a student living at home: not so much income right? In my country a M1(semiauto) is about 150$, a 30rnd mag 7 to 15$, all other items are the same price as in the states. A lot cheaper than a AR-15 or something like that... I found a nice M1 (made by Springfield, 12-1943) with the choate stock, a B-square mount and a 30rnd for 175$. all in good condition. well I hope to get some feedback on my idea, Wouter Spruijt (Holland)

12-06-2002, 02:52 PM	#2
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,043 Images: 3	Sounds good to me brother! Gotta work with what you have and it sounds like it will be nice when you get done with it...(remember to post photos when your done!) Good luck, good shooting! __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

12-06-2002, 03:03 PM	#3
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	WELCOME !!!!!! nice to have a brother from Holland check in!!! when you get the carbine set up, post some pictures of it, and don't be a stranger!!!

12-06-2002, 05:08 PM	#4
MADMAX Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maarssen, HOLLAND (12 miles from Amsterdam) Posts: 12	TNX Hy guys, tnx for the replys, i'm accepted in da clan. well I do have a digital camera(no, I don't need a scanner or software (Calvin)). so, if I get it I'll post the photo's soon! i do have a Impression of what Ãt would look like made from pictures I found on the Net(it's not that bad, made it with photoshop). Post? If U want to see how we do DSR in Holland, check our DSR site: http://www.aps-dsr.nl/ Click on "foto's" in the upper bar and then click on any photo to see a collection of photo's from that match. (Go wild on the AR-15's, SIG550-551's, AUG's's, FN FAL's, etc. *** the Rilfe ban, live in Holland!). Well, can you guys give me some advice on the differences between the MK1 and MK2 bolt's(except one is flat and the other round)? Last edited by MADMAX; 12-22-2002 at 11:31 AM.

12-06-2002, 06:09 PM	#5
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Interesting the price of M1 carbines compared to ARs. Here a carbine is at least $400, more like $600 for decent military ones. One can get an AR for $600 and up, and they're made here. I hate to think what an AR would cost over there after being exported and all. One thing I wonder is what carbine ammo costs over there. Here, you can get 223 for $0.10 per round for cheap Wolf, to $0.20 per round for steel core SS109, and that's on the low end. M1 Carbine ammo is $0.18 per round at the lowest, but usually more. 7.62x39mm is $0.07 to $0.10 per round for foreign ammo, and way more for domestic. 308 averages about $0.15 per round. Here, people primarily get M1 Carbines because they're what our soldiers carried in WWII. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

12-06-2002, 10:21 PM	#6
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,996	Sounds like a plan, MadMax. Post the pics when you get done. I would be interested in seeing it when it's finished. I recommend the Type 2 as it is the better choice. The Type 2's were used in the M2 and M3 carbines. Type 1's were strictly for M1's. BTW, I USED to have a digital camera. However, the sister-out-law never brought the **** thing back. The only thing I had to post any pics with was a diskette that I had taken pics of BEFORE the camera disappeared. Our computer got hit with a virus, and the download program was wiped out. The wife got it fixed, but then the disk came up missing. Still haven't found the disk, but it will surely pop up soon because I am buying a new Nikon digital camera. It's going in the safe, and I'm putting my Shepherd in front of it, just in case... __________________ I've gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait. Last edited by Calvin; 12-06-2002 at 10:28 PM.

12-06-2002, 11:34 PM	#7
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906	You say this is a Springfield M-1 carbine? They made aftermarket receivers,but they did not make receivers for the Government. On the back of the receiver there should be a makers stamp,if you have an adjustable rear sight it may be under it. Let us know,and Welcome Madmax.

12-09-2002, 02:46 PM	#8
MADMAX Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maarssen, HOLLAND (12 miles from Amsterdam) Posts: 12	What a Lot of Questions! :D Hy guys(what al lot of questions!), G3: M1's in holland start at 150$(good quality). you can get them from a low as 75$ but they are not that good then. A AR-15 starts form 800$(2nd hand) to 1400$(new) Indeed, very pricy.... Another example: the Choate stock is around 60$ in the US, imported to holland it cost's 275$!!!! I think you can understand that i'm very happy with finding a good quality M1 WITH the choatestock AND a scopemount for just 170$! Ammo here goes by the 1000rnd(boxes are rare): .30: 375$ .223: 210$ .308: 300$ 7.62x39 160$ This giant price diference is because we don't have any real ammo producers in holland. we manly depend on surplus .223/.308 NATO and ex-USSR 7.62x39 ammunition. .30 is rarely produced in all of Europe so that explains the high price. Reloading is very populair in holland. it not only gives better quality but also saves al lot of $$$. what you save varys wildly from caliber to caliber. Example: reloaded .30 goes for als little as 120$ a 1000 but .223 for only 190$! In holland we buy the M1 because its a very cheap large calliber rifle (and cheap ammo if you make it Ur self) and because there are many competitions organized just for the M1(more then any other) Calvin: Tnx for the tip, The one I want to buy has a Mk1 bolt. if I have the money, can I easly change the MK1 for the MK2 bolt? (U do have lousy excuses for those pic's). U better protect the cam extra with Ur M1 and a 1000rnds! Wes: Well, I take the M1 out of the stock to check its condition(good), but i did not check under the scopemount but the barrel had a stamp: "Springfield 12-1943". So I guess that the rest of the weapon is also from springfield and from december 1943. what do U mean with "Goverment"? My Riflebook says that Springfield DID Produce M1's form 1942 to 1945... Well hope to hear from you guys soon(tnx for the warm welcome!), MADMAX Last edited by MADMAX; 12-22-2002 at 11:29 AM.

12-09-2002, 02:49 PM	#9
landtrain Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Spotsylvania Court House, VA. Posts: 29	First Carbine Wouter. You say its a 1943 Springfield. I believe you have a genuine US made .30 Cal Carbine but you somehow reported the identification of its bigger brother the M1 Garand. The Carbine weighs 5.5 pounds while the Garand weighs 9.9. The Carbine is 34 inches overall while the Garand is 51 or more. The Carbine round is 2.9 inches while the 30-06 round is almost 4 inches. The Garand will NOT accept 15 or 30 round clips and the Carbine will not accept 8 round en-bloc chargers. What I would rerally like to know is the information stamped on the rear of the receiver either under the rear sight or behind it. Look at the muzzle. Is there any stampings just to the rear of the front sight? Having ask all those questions, I glad to know you are even allowed to own personal firearms in Holland and I fear the restrictions you accept as commom place are beginning to be implemented in the US. Your plans for your rifle soind great. Its a fine old war horse and will give you many hours of shooting fun or compitition. Good luck and may you only hit the "X Ring". E-mail me with the data. I am a collector and have a lot of reference manuals so I might be able to help with the history. dandjent@infi.net Dan.

12-09-2002, 03:31 PM	#10
MADMAX Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maarssen, HOLLAND (12 miles from Amsterdam) Posts: 12	GREAT! (and more dicussion) Hy land train, Tnx for the offer! I'm quite familiar with weapons (not only M1 Carabines and M1A Garant's), I'm A real Gun-Nut! :assult: But tnx for explaining the difference(I someone didn't know the difference between the two rifles they do now, great!). It's a real M1 carabine with the choate polymer rifle stock instead of the wooden and a Scopemount. I did check the barrel(but not the reciever) and it said: "Springfield 12-1943". To make a lot of things clear for all you guys, I'll go to the shop Thursday(Ãf all goes well) and turn the damm thing inside out! (I'll send U all the stamp info i can find then Land train) I'll also take my digital Cam to make some pic's(also some detailed) and post them, see whay all U guys think, right? Well, we ARE allowed to have fire arms but our laws are VERY tight... To give U some Impressions: -AT LEAST 1 year member of a shooting club and a 3 moth trail period(15 months in all) -No automatics -No .50 pistols -No folding stocks or systems that allow to reduce the size of the weapon -No weapons derived from Sub-machine guns that shoot pistol caliber ammo -No Silencers -No "Unwished" weapons: like Belfeds, GPMG's, SAW's, Miniguns, shotguns with more then 2 rounds(even pumps!) explosive weapons, hidden weapons, tazers, mace, etc. -No mag restrictions(so we CAN have 100rnd drums:P) -U MUST own a vault or safe for your weapon and keep it there in good condition if not in use -In the safe or vault u must store you're ammo and mags in seperate inner vaults, away from the weapon. -Regular checks from your local police that you obey the law on guns (4 to 8 times a year, unannounced), failing to comply means you lose your licence for 6 years or longer. -Registration of the number of times u shoot a year. The amount of "shoot-turns" gives U the right for more weapons(12 for 1 up to a maximum of 35 turns for 5 weapons, Nomore!) and so on.... Looks like hell, but I think (Personaly) that these laws give guns only to people that are resposible-disiplined shooters and keep gun related accidents and crime to a absolute minimum(we have strongest lwas in all of Europe)---> Start a X-tra Topic? U can still have a semi-auto HK51 with Normal stock with 30rnd mags or a Sig 550 Commando with 3 30rnd mags together, sounds not that bad to me! What Du U Guys think of the Choate stock? any opinions??? MADMAX

12-09-2002, 04:18 PM	#11
MADMAX Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maarssen, HOLLAND (12 miles from Amsterdam) Posts: 12	Strange coincidence??? I was browsing trough the user profiles(learn to know U guys).... NRAJOE, PAPA G an CALVIN have the same birthdate?! ....31 december 1969.... Are U guys triplets, coincidence, or something else??? Somebody explain???? MADMAX

12-09-2002, 05:08 PM	#12
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906	Choate makes some of the best.

12-20-2002, 02:00 PM	#14
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12	VERY, VERY KOOOL!!! looks real good MadMax!!!:nod:

12-20-2002, 09:59 PM	#15
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906	For that serial number it should be an Inland. Probably around 1943-44. Looks good.

12-22-2002, 11:27 AM	#16
MADMAX Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maarssen, HOLLAND (12 miles from Amsterdam) Posts: 12	Tnx landtrain(and the rest of U guys) Hi guys, Landtrain gave me a 2 full page description on my m1, Amazig!:nod: If any of U guys want to know more on your gun what you didn't know, mail him ur number! Thx for the comment guys, just see what u can do with the m1: Just a little tuning here, different stock there and some loving hard work... By for now, MADMAX

12-26-2002, 05:47 PM	#17
Manitoba Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 19	u know what they say Once.. is circumstance Twice... is coincidence Thrice... is conspiracy and that's one very cool weapon.

01-05-2003, 07:49 PM	#18
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 511	Your receiver is an Inland built around May of 1944. It sounds like the carbine may have a Springfield replacement barrel. From the pictures, the carbine has gone through at least one rebuild. Hope this helps you get a little more understanding of the carbine you have.