Carbine use

1950oldsoldier · 07-18-2009, 06:44 PM

I find it interesting to read about folks that write of the short comings of the Carbine at 100-300 yards. I believe that few of us own a 'retreat' location or live on a farm where long range weapons could be used. I believe that most folks like me live in Urban or Surburban locations where long range would not apply. If SHTF I plan to saty put since IMO getting on the roads could be more dangerous plus almost all of what I would need is right here in my home.

If I shot a 30-06 in any direction it would hit/go through a house. I live in a surburban area and the distance that I would have to shoot to 'repel all borders' is more like 25-40 yards and therefore pistol range. Instead of 6 shots (revolver) or 7 rounds (1911) I will use my Carbine and have 15 rounds or better yet 30 round magazines :>).

My concerns are the hoodlems coming out of project houseing and going out to cause mayhem, rob, ateal all within sight. Therefore I will shoulder my Carbine to stop any actions against me, family, or my neighbors.

This I believe is a more realistic situation at least in my case.
Jim

M14man · 07-18-2009, 06:56 PM

The carbine definitely has it's purposes, and is more accurate than a handgun. Though maybe not the most powerful man stopper,it could surely suffice in most situations especially if you hit the bad guy more than once.

frenchy · 07-18-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1950oldsoldier

I find it interesting to read about folks that write of the short comings of the Carbine at 100-300 yards. I believe that few of us own a 'retreat' location or live on a farm where long range weapons could be used. I believe that most folks like me live in Urban or Surburban locations where long range would not apply. If SHTF I plan to saty put since IMO getting on the roads could be more dangerous plus almost all of what I would need is right here in my home.

If I shot a 30-06 in any direction it would hit/go through a house. I live in a surburban area and the distance that I would have to shoot to 'repel all borders' is more like 25-40 yards and therefore pistol range. Instead of 6 shots (revolver) or 7 rounds (1911) I will use my Carbine and have 15 rounds or better yet 30 round magazines :>).

My concerns are the hoodlems coming out of project houseing and going out to cause mayhem, rob, ateal all within sight. Therefore I will shoulder my Carbine to stop any actions against me, family, or my neighbors.

This I believe is a more realistic situation at least in my case.
Jim

Hello 1950oldsoldier and welcome.
I pray i never have to do this scenero but i agree with your choice of weapons.I thank you for your service and sacrifice!
frenchy

1950oldsoldier · 07-19-2009, 12:59 PM

Thank you frenchie. I pray that we will never have to be a part of this situation
Jim

katzdad · 07-19-2009, 02:21 PM

Having been on both ends of gunfights—a number of times as a Huey door-gunner in Vietnam, and once as a LEO—I feel I can state categorically that suppressive fire is a very important factor in any such situation. While Mr. .06 is recovering from recoil and obtaining a new sight picture, I'm confident that, with virtually no recoil, I can place three-to-six carbine rounds in his general area, which does have a somewhat unnerving effect! And having reviewed literally thousands of autopsy photos, and seeing a shooting autopsy in person, I don't want a bullet of any size hitting me. It's absolutely weird the things a bullet can do to a human body. (And it's my understanding that more people are killed by .22s than any other caliber.)

I agree with you 100 percent about the viability of a carbine in suburban settings. For a number of reasons, out of all my guns, it's my first choice in case of 'civil unrest,' or the like. A .223 might be a better weapon for the job, but I have confidence in my abilities with my carbine. For range/target/competition shooting, I use FMJ ammo, but my 'in-case-of' clips are filled with Remington hollow-points. My biggest regret along those lines is that 50 round drum magazines don't exist for the carbine...now that would be a winner!

Max

oldjarhead · 07-19-2009, 02:45 PM

1950oldsoldier...I agree with what has been said here and I, as a carbine lover, must add that the carbine is probably the most under-rated weapon. Comparison of the carbine is usually done against full blown battle weapons of which the carbine is not. Designed as a replacement for the sidearm it was often used in close quarter combat and served that function admirably. I live on 20 acres of country and my weapon of choice is the carbine...I have long range shooters but when they come over the ridge it will be less than 100 yards; at that point fire power will be the key. I use FMJ and 110 gr soft point for effect. I also have converted one of mine to .22 Spitfire which is greater in power and range than the carbine and slightly less than that of .223...great for that close up touchy-feely situation.

cjleete · 07-20-2009, 06:11 AM

I think that old carbine is a dandy weapon for around the house. there are even soft-point loads and Cor-Con makes a defensive load for it. 30 carbine nicely bridges the gap between a service rifle round and a handgun.

nathangdad · 07-20-2009, 06:30 AM

and, depending on the caliber, can certainly be more important than a handgun.

As with any gun, practice is of primary importance. What will make the difference is the ability to acquire and hit the target.

It is not necessarily the gun of choice in the Texas Panhandle where I live. Yes, we do have town and city scenarios but we also have a great deal of wide open space to consider.

oldjarhead · 07-20-2009, 07:47 AM

IMHO, I think everyone should have at least:
1 long range shooter
1 mid-range shooter
1 close range shooter
Everything else is gravy!
Whatever you may have, know them and know them well.
lol

Yeah...Gdad, you have so much open flat land a bullet won't know when to fall down and play dead.

ArkansasHunter · 07-20-2009, 07:55 AM

To me a Marlin leveraction carbine/rifle in 38/spl./357,,,44magnum are perfect defence weapons. These rifles hold 9 to 10 rounds.

Model 1894 Cowboy

This handsome rifle, available in 45 Colt, 357 Mag./38 Spl. and 44 Mag./44 Spl., has become the standard by which all cowboy rifles are judged. From its elegant tapered octagon barrel, with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling, to its straight-grip walnut stock and squared finger lever, this rifle is pure Old West. To accommodate tang sight installation, the serial number is located on the left side of the receiver.

Caliber45 Colt Order Online from Gallery of Guns
357 Mag. / 38 Spl.* Order Online from Gallery of Guns
44 Mag. / 44Spl. Order Online from Gallery of GunsCapacity10-shot tubular magazineActionLever action with squared finger lever; side ejection; deeply blued metal surfaces; solid top receiver; hammer block safety.StockAmerican black walnut straight-grip stock; hard rubber butt plate; tough Mar-Shield® finish; blued steel fore-end cap.BarrelTapered octagon with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves).Twist Rate 45 Colt - 1:16" r.h.
357 Mag. / 38 Spl. - 1:16" r.h.
44 Mag. / 44 Spl. - 1:38" r.h. SightsAdjustable Marble semi-buckhorn rear, Marble carbine front sight. Solid top receiver tapped for scope mount; offset hammer spur (right or left hand) for scope use. Serial number is on left side of receiver instead of tang, allowing custom installation of a tang sight by a competent gunsmith.Overall Length37.5"Weight6.5 lbs. Owner's Manual

1950oldsoldier · 07-20-2009, 11:46 AM

Arkansas Hunter as a former LEO I have observed the mob mentality and even felt it myself in numbers they feel they can over power any thing so to each his/her own but in a SHTF situation I want more speed than a lever action provides. I would like to have a Class 3 weapon but that's not going to happen so a semi-auto with 30 or drum magazine is my choice. The Carbine is light and if you put a folding stock on it you have a weapon that can be concealed under a jacket or coat. I have a AR-15 but prefer a 30 caliber weapon. My only complaint on the Carbine is that I wish the bolt would remain open when the last round is fired.

Having used the Carbine in combat I just like it. I agree with "oldjarhead" and have as my 'long range rifle' my beloved M1 Garand with AP ammo:>)

I just pray that Obama will NOT be allowed to disarm us and that SHTF does not happen but if it does I am prepared.
Jim

oldjarhead · 07-20-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1950oldsoldier

Having used the Carbine in combat I just like it. I agree with "oldjarhead" and have as my 'long range rifle' my beloved M1 Garand with AP ammo:>)

I just pray that Obama will NOT be allowed to disarm us and that SHTF does not happen but if it does I am prepared.
Jim

Dang, you have good taste!

I think ole Buckwheat will be chillin' behind Michelle's skirt at that point. Funny, he thinks compromise and diplomacy for everyone but Americans.

1950oldsoldier · 07-20-2009, 05:52 PM

So do you "oldjarhead",
Jim

testhop · 07-21-2009, 10:34 AM

if the pilco over in washington do do someing to dis arm the U.S.A.i am going to obeythe law, as long as the law conplays with the consuetion if not i say the he##with he## with them.
another thing it time we start a new kind of revolt EVERBODYY GO AND VOTE AND VOTE RIGHT TOO MENEY VOTE FOR THE SAME OLD JURKS WHO BEEN SCREWING US FOR YEARS .

JimBob · 07-22-2009, 02:32 AM

Old Soldier I think makes a very valid point on a weapon choice of a light carbine for the given situation.One of the best sellers in the local gunshop has been the High Point carbines when he could get them along with extra mags for same.M1 carbines are few and far between around here and don't last long on the shelf.The lack of ammunition supply is somewhat worrisome though.

AzTrooper · 07-22-2009, 05:24 AM

Just a thought, but if you want the bolt to remain open after the last shot you could hunt up a good USGI 30 rd mag and use that.USGI 30 rd mags had a follower that keeps the bolt open after the last round is fired,if your wanting a 15 rd mag that willl do the same, perhaps you could install a follower from a 30 rd mag or better yet you could easily modify the follower on the 15 rd mag to hold the bolt open, all it requires if a little grinding where the ramp is on the follower that allows the bolt to glide over and depress the follower as it passes over it.Grind the ramped edge at a 90 degree angle and the bolt will stay open whe it runs up against it, it is a really fast and easy mod, this is how the 30 rd mag follower is made.Just remember if you decide to use a 30 rd mag, its best to install the type IV mag release too. It has a small supporting arm added to the end of it that is designed to support the side to side play that you encounter with a 30 rd mag (especially a fully loaded mag)so that it feeds more reliably.
John

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1950oldsoldier

Arkansas Hunter as a former LEO I have observed the mob mentality and even felt it myself in numbers they feel they can over power any thing so to each his/her own but in a SHTF situation I want more speed than a lever action provides. I would like to have a Class 3 weapon but that's not going to happen so a semi-auto with 30 or drum magazine is my choice. The Carbine is light and if you put a folding stock on it you have a weapon that can be concealed under a jacket or coat. I have a AR-15 but prefer a 30 caliber weapon. My only complaint on the Carbine is that I wish the bolt would remain open when the last round is fired.

Having used the Carbine in combat I just like it. I agree with "oldjarhead" and have as my 'long range rifle' my beloved M1 Garand with AP ammo:>)

I just pray that Obama will NOT be allowed to disarm us and that SHTF does not happen but if it does I am prepared.
Jim

oldjarhead · 07-22-2009, 08:37 AM

To add to AZtrooper's post. If you use a 30 round magazine you will have to install the correct magazine release. The added weight of a 30 rounder and gravity combine with movement and the mag may/could/will fall out after a few shots. The releases are fairly inexpensive and quite easy to change over.
If you modify the mag follower, start your cut and grind at the top of the rear slant. Don't grind too far up on the high side.
Also, the follower AZtrooper is discussing will lock the bolt back after the last shot from a given magazine BUT it serves only as an indicator to an empty magazine. When you remove the magazine the bolt will go forward and need to be cycled after inserting a fresh loaded magazine.
Makes it easier than counting each shot.

Go Navy · 07-22-2009, 07:05 PM

Another argument in favor of the .30 Carbine for self defense, whether close quarters or, say, out to 50-100 yards, is that just about anyone (me, for sure) shoots a little more accurately when not getting hammered by recoil. The M1 Carbine, despite its light weight, is a joy to shoot in terms of recoil. Therefor it is likely I will tend to be more accurate with it than a .50 !

I also have a new model Mini-14, which is able to handle either .223 or 5.56 according to Ruger factory specs. I scoped it because the .223 is a little flatter shooting than .30 Carbine so when the angry class warfare mobs come rampaging out of the city seeking "economic justice", I'd probably pick up the Mini-14 first and then switch to the M1 Carbine for "Custer's Last Stand", followed at the very end by my H&K USP Compact in 9mm. If I really had to reach out and touch a target at "long range", I'd grab my Savage Model 14 American Classic bolt action w/Accutrigger in .243. That's my long range piece.

Captain Winters · 08-11-2009, 09:42 PM

I also use my M1 Carbine as a homeland defence weapon. A couple 30 rounders loaded with HP's and your set. We have a Combat range at my club so I can keep my skills sharp. Anything within 100 yards is getting hit more than once

DesertRaider109 · 08-13-2009, 06:48 PM

I just picked up my Inland carbine off layaway today and it is a handy little gun. I have already installed a USGI 2-magazine pouch on the stock of the weapon, and with a 30 rd mag and two 15 rd mags in the stock pouch, you have 60 rounds on the weapon at all times ready to go! This is a pretty good setup for me!

07-18-2009, 06:44 PM	#1
1950oldsoldier Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 57	Carbine use I find it interesting to read about folks that write of the short comings of the Carbine at 100-300 yards. I believe that few of us own a 'retreat' location or live on a farm where long range weapons could be used. I believe that most folks like me live in Urban or Surburban locations where long range would not apply. If SHTF I plan to saty put since IMO getting on the roads could be more dangerous plus almost all of what I would need is right here in my home. If I shot a 30-06 in any direction it would hit/go through a house. I live in a surburban area and the distance that I would have to shoot to 'repel all borders' is more like 25-40 yards and therefore pistol range. Instead of 6 shots (revolver) or 7 rounds (1911) I will use my Carbine and have 15 rounds or better yet 30 round magazines :>). My concerns are the hoodlems coming out of project houseing and going out to cause mayhem, rob, ateal all within sight. Therefore I will shoulder my Carbine to stop any actions against me, family, or my neighbors. This I believe is a more realistic situation at least in my case. Jim

07-19-2009, 02:21 PM	#5
katzdad Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 54	Suppressive fire Having been on both ends of gunfights—a number of times as a Huey door-gunner in Vietnam, and once as a LEO—I feel I can state categorically that suppressive fire is a very important factor in any such situation. While Mr. .06 is recovering from recoil and obtaining a new sight picture, I'm confident that, with virtually no recoil, I can place three-to-six carbine rounds in his general area, which does have a somewhat unnerving effect! And having reviewed literally thousands of autopsy photos, and seeing a shooting autopsy in person, I don't want a bullet of *any* size hitting me. It's absolutely weird the things a bullet can do to a human body. (And it's my understanding that more people are killed by .22s than any other caliber.) I agree with you 100 percent about the viability of a carbine in suburban settings. For a number of reasons, out of all my guns, it's my first choice in case of 'civil unrest,' or the like. A .223 might be a better weapon for the job, but I have confidence in my abilities with my carbine. For range/target/competition shooting, I use FMJ ammo, but my 'in-case-of' clips are filled with Remington hollow-points. My biggest regret along those lines is that 50 round drum magazines don't exist for the carbine...now that would be a winner! Max

07-19-2009, 02:45 PM	#6
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MO Posts: 1,914	1950oldsoldier...I agree with what has been said here and I, as a carbine lover, must add that the carbine is probably the most under-rated weapon. Comparison of the carbine is usually done against full blown battle weapons of which the carbine is not. Designed as a replacement for the sidearm it was often used in close quarter combat and served that function admirably. I live on 20 acres of country and my weapon of choice is the carbine...I have long range shooters but when they come over the ridge it will be less than 100 yards; at that point fire power will be the key. I use FMJ and 110 gr soft point for effect. I also have converted one of mine to .22 Spitfire which is greater in power and range than the carbine and slightly less than that of .223...great for that close up touchy-feely situation. __________________ No war has ever been won by a politician!

07-20-2009, 06:30 AM	#8
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,172	A carbine does have its place and, depending on the caliber, can certainly be more important than a handgun. As with any gun, practice is of primary importance. What will make the difference is the ability to acquire and hit the target. It is not necessarily the gun of choice in the Texas Panhandle where I live. Yes, we do have town and city scenarios but we also have a great deal of wide open space to consider.

07-20-2009, 07:47 AM	#9
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MO Posts: 1,914	IMHO, I think everyone should have at least: 1 long range shooter 1 mid-range shooter 1 close range shooter Everything else is gravy! Whatever you may have, know them and know them well. lol Yeah...Gdad, you have so much open flat land a bullet won't know when to fall down and play dead. __________________ No war has ever been won by a politician!

07-18-2009, 06:56 PM	#2
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 1,162 Images: 10	The carbine definitely has it's purposes, and is more accurate than a handgun. Though maybe not the most powerful man stopper,it could surely suffice in most situations especially if you hit the bad guy more than once.

07-19-2009, 12:59 PM	#4
1950oldsoldier Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 57	Thank you frenchie. I pray that we will never have to be a part of this situation Jim

07-20-2009, 06:11 AM	#7
cjleete Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 351	I think that old carbine is a dandy weapon for around the house. there are even soft-point loads and Cor-Con makes a defensive load for it. 30 carbine nicely bridges the gap between a service rifle round and a handgun.

07-20-2009, 07:55 AM	#10
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas. Posts: 17,217	To me a Marlin leveraction carbine/rifle in 38/spl./357,,,44magnum are perfect defence weapons. These rifles hold 9 to 10 rounds. Model 1894 Cowboy This handsome rifle, available in 45 Colt, 357 Mag./38 Spl. and 44 Mag./44 Spl., has become the standard by which all cowboy rifles are judged. From its elegant tapered octagon barrel, with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling, to its straight-grip walnut stock and squared finger lever, this rifle is pure Old West. To accommodate tang sight installation, the serial number is located on the left side of the receiver. Caliber45 Colt Order Online from Gallery of Guns 357 Mag. / 38 Spl.* Order Online from Gallery of Guns 44 Mag. / 44Spl. Order Online from Gallery of GunsCapacity10-shot tubular magazineActionLever action with squared finger lever; side ejection; deeply blued metal surfaces; solid top receiver; hammer block safety.StockAmerican black walnut straight-grip stock; hard rubber butt plate; tough Mar-Shield® finish; blued steel fore-end cap.BarrelTapered octagon with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves).Twist Rate 45 Colt - 1:16" r.h. 357 Mag. / 38 Spl. - 1:16" r.h. 44 Mag. / 44 Spl. - 1:38" r.h. SightsAdjustable Marble semi-buckhorn rear, Marble carbine front sight. Solid top receiver tapped for scope mount; offset hammer spur (right or left hand) for scope use. Serial number is on left side of receiver instead of tang, allowing custom installation of a tang sight by a competent gunsmith.Overall Length37.5"Weight6.5 lbs. Owner's Manual __________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER

07-20-2009, 11:46 AM	#11
1950oldsoldier Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 57	Arkansas Hunter as a former LEO I have observed the mob mentality and even felt it myself in numbers they feel they can over power any thing so to each his/her own but in a SHTF situation I want more speed than a lever action provides. I would like to have a Class 3 weapon but that's not going to happen so a semi-auto with 30 or drum magazine is my choice. The Carbine is light and if you put a folding stock on it you have a weapon that can be concealed under a jacket or coat. I have a AR-15 but prefer a 30 caliber weapon. My only complaint on the Carbine is that I wish the bolt would remain open when the last round is fired. Having used the Carbine in combat I just like it. I agree with "oldjarhead" and have as my 'long range rifle' my beloved M1 Garand with AP ammo:>) I just pray that Obama will NOT be allowed to disarm us and that SHTF does not happen but if it does I am prepared. Jim

07-20-2009, 05:52 PM	#13
1950oldsoldier Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 57	So do you "oldjarhead", Jim

07-21-2009, 10:34 AM	#14
testhop Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 196	if the pilco over in washington do do someing to dis arm the U.S.A.i am going to obeythe law, as long as the law conplays with the consuetion if not i say the he##with he## with them. another thing it time we start a new kind of revolt EVERBODYY GO AND VOTE AND VOTE RIGHT TOO MENEY VOTE FOR THE SAME OLD JURKS WHO BEEN SCREWING US FOR YEARS . __________________ A LOADED GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE HOW DO YOU LIKE THE GREAT CHANGE?

07-22-2009, 02:32 AM	#15
JimBob Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: East Central Illinois Posts: 725	Old Soldier I think makes a very valid point on a weapon choice of a light carbine for the given situation.One of the best sellers in the local gunshop has been the High Point carbines when he could get them along with extra mags for same.M1 carbines are few and far between around here and don't last long on the shelf.The lack of ammunition supply is somewhat worrisome though.

07-22-2009, 08:37 AM	#17
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MO Posts: 1,914	To add to AZtrooper's post. If you use a 30 round magazine you will have to install the correct magazine release. The added weight of a 30 rounder and gravity combine with movement and the mag may/could/will fall out after a few shots. The releases are fairly inexpensive and quite easy to change over. If you modify the mag follower, start your cut and grind at the top of the rear slant. Don't grind too far up on the high side. Also, the follower AZtrooper is discussing will lock the bolt back after the last shot from a given magazine BUT it serves only as an indicator to an empty magazine. When you remove the magazine the bolt will go forward and need to be cycled after inserting a fresh loaded magazine. Makes it easier than counting each shot. __________________ No war has ever been won by a politician!

07-22-2009, 07:05 PM	#18
Go Navy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern Taxifornia Posts: 117	Another argument in favor of the .30 Carbine for self defense, whether close quarters or, say, out to 50-100 yards, is that just about anyone (me, for sure) shoots a little more accurately when not getting hammered by recoil. The M1 Carbine, despite its light weight, is a joy to shoot in terms of recoil. Therefor it is likely I will tend to be more accurate with it than a .50 ! I also have a new model Mini-14, which is able to handle either .223 or 5.56 according to Ruger factory specs. I scoped it because the .223 is a little flatter shooting than .30 Carbine so when the angry class warfare mobs come rampaging out of the city seeking "economic justice", I'd probably pick up the Mini-14 first and then switch to the M1 Carbine for "Custer's Last Stand", followed at the very end by my H&K USP Compact in 9mm. If I really had to reach out and touch a target at "long range", I'd grab my Savage Model 14 American Classic bolt action w/Accutrigger in .243. That's my long range piece. __________________ GOA/NRA Life Member USN Veteran

08-11-2009, 09:42 PM	#19
Captain Winters Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 16	I also use my M1 Carbine as a homeland defence weapon. A couple 30 rounders loaded with HP's and your set. We have a Combat range at my club so I can keep my skills sharp. Anything within 100 yards is getting hit more than once

08-13-2009, 06:48 PM	#20
DesertRaider109 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 417 Blog Entries: 1	I just picked up my Inland carbine off layaway today and it is a handy little gun. I have already installed a USGI 2-magazine pouch on the stock of the weapon, and with a 30 rd mag and two 15 rd mags in the stock pouch, you have 60 rounds on the weapon at all times ready to go! This is a pretty good setup for me! __________________ "What we do in life echoes in eternity"