What to look for when buying an M1?

phrogg · 07-03-2006, 08:32 PM

Hey guys. My local gunshop has two M1 Garands, at $650 a piece. I'm fairly positive that I'm getting one tomorrow. Yay for friends who can loan me money!

I'm going to be shooting the thing quite a bit, and keeping it very clean. I need it to function, and function the best possible.

What should I be looking for when choosing between them? How do you tell the condition, and which is better? They're both WWII era, and the guy there (very nice guy, and I've spend so many hundreds of dollars at this place on ammo that he probably wouldn't lie) said both had bores in really good condition. The rifles themselves were very similar to the brand new .308 Garand that I took a look at - the wood was just slightly looser and a bit darker. (Heck no, I'm not getting a .308 Garand - and at $1350?! .30-06 it is)

Should I be looking for a clean, crisp looking action, or stick with the one with the best looking bore? Anything else I should be looking for?

I believe one was made in 1944, one was made in 1945. One of them looked like the front sight was a little bent outwards, but I wasn't really sure. I'll definitly inspect it closer, but yeah.

FutureMarine · 07-03-2006, 09:44 PM

which shop is that. your in the sac area right?
Like any rifle you are going to need to check the bore just to make sure
Make sure it is in good condition
Definately look for a clean crisp action
If you just choose carefully you will be happy

spicybeefjerky · 07-03-2006, 10:17 PM

no pitting check the bores with a small light...make sure the rifling is nice and strong the the bore is mirror bright

phrogg · 07-07-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spicybeefjerky

no pitting check the bores with a small light...make sure the rifling is nice and strong the the bore is mirror bright

Ok, rifling was good on the one rifle they had left... and I'm the proud new owner of an M1 Garand on the 17th. =D The best part? I know almost nothing about them other than how to shoot them! Yaaay for the internet!

jerry · 07-07-2006, 06:04 PM

H U A.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/inspect.htm

FutureMarine · 07-07-2006, 06:21 PM

the garand cliip cal be a pain in the ARSE! i rent the one at cordova and when its oiled WELL it wont bee too bad, but when its not, 8 rounds wont seem like a lot because you'll have to fiddle with that again.

Anyways, you'll love your new rifle

Gyrene · 07-07-2006, 09:39 PM

phrogg - Watch out for "M1 Thumb!" NEVER, NEVER place your fingers or thumb anywhere near the clip well, without having full control of the Operating Rod!!!

The first thing that happens, when the bolt chambers your thumb or finger, is that it will make you speak French, Russian, and possibly Libyan! If you are lucky, you can see again and stop yelling in about 5 to 10 minutes!

Secondly, plan on your thumb hurting for about 2 weeks, and your thumbnail coming off!!

I will repeat myself!!! NEVER, NEVER place your fingers or thumb anywhere near the clip well, without having full control of the Operating Rod!!! Full control of the Operating Rod Handle, means just that, anything less will surely lead to "M1 Thumb"!

fordruid · 07-07-2006, 11:26 PM

Check to make sure the reciever isn't welded.

spicybeefjerky · 07-08-2006, 11:55 AM

and also make sure that you grease some of the moving parts...you should be able to tell where because of the wear on the metal...i dont recall all of the differeent spots but i'm sure somebody else does! :right:

Ben Hartley · 07-08-2006, 05:47 PM

General rule: oil preserves, grease lubricates. For a chart of the grease points, try:
-
http://www.nicolausassociates.com/free_stuff.htm
-
...and scroll down the page to the "M! RIFLE GREASE POINTS" link. It's a .pdf file, and you'll need Adobe Reader to view or save it.
.
(Bet you'll end up downloading more than just the grease point chart!)
-
Ben

FutureMarine · 07-08-2006, 09:24 PM

was that bought at cordova guns phrogg?

phrogg · 07-10-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureMarine

was that bought at cordova guns phrogg?

Cordova Shooting Center, actually. The range shop had two of them sitting where they usually had SKSs... and i thought to myself... Well, my best friend just killed himself while I was having a root canal (Tuesday and Wednesday, June 27th and 28th... this past week has sucked). I decided that since I had a couple hundred bucks that I was gonna spend on an SKS... and I'm getting a Garand for my collection eventually anyway... Screw the SKS.

I checked out Cordova Guns. They only had a .308 Garand ($1350 compared to $650, with no history behind it cause it's new...), and the people that work there aren't exactly nice... just very, very weird. Sometimes flat out rude.

Anyway, I'm only putting non-corrosive ammo only through this thing. I saw CtD has a freaking deal on .30-06 milsurp, which my friend's dad bought for his M1 already - except it's all corrosive, even though it is all loaded on Garand strippers already. Jesus, my 91/30 is a beater rifle now cause of the corrosive stuff, and it's so much harder to clean it. Especially with a gas rod as well.

Also, Gyrene - Thanks for the advice, I'll take it. I did put 2 clips through my friend's dad's M1 a couple years back, though - and I didn't even have that problem. I shoved it in, and I guess I either got my finger out of the way of the bolt or caught the bolt with my thumb to an extent and got my thumb out of the way. I need to practice shoving the clip in there, I guess. Anyone got a deal for 8 .30-06 snap caps? =P Better suggestions?

Another thing, I couldn't figure out how to use the safety, even. I'm gonna be screwed trying to shoot the thing if I'm going to take off my thumb, bruise my shoulder, hit my friends with flying brass, and not have any safety except having the thing unloaded... =P I really hope the guys there have some time to help me with the thing. Most of the sites I've looked at have only helped me a little bit, mainly cause I don't have the rifle here.

Anyway, a week from tomorrow - woot. I'm stocking up on .30-06 as best as I can under a taco bell budget (that's not very much). =P

FutureMarine · 07-10-2006, 01:40 AM

well since you dont like corrosive i think that rules out the korean stuff. good ammo though!

well the only think to think about with the clip is just keep your right hand around the bolt and shove it in with your left hand. i only rented their garand twice and i got good at it.

Gyrene · 07-10-2006, 11:37 AM

FutureMarine - The Korean "K A" Headstamp is CORROSIVE, and it usually comes packed in clips and bandoliers, or loose packed, in a .50 Cal can.

The "P S" headstamp is Non-Corrosive, and is usually packed in 20 round boxes, sometimes in a .50 Cal can, or just sold in the 20 round boxes, depending on who is selling it.

Both are made in the same factory, with the "K A" made for the Korean Army (maybe that is why the "K A"), and the "P S" made for sale to other Governments, or the U. S. Market.

The only problem with shooting the CORROSIVE ammo, is that you have to be scrupulously clean after shooting it, by pulling the rifle apart, to clean the Gas Cylinder, the Operating Rod, the Barrel, and the Bolt. Some shoot CORROSIVE a lot, and before they leave the range they spray the bore and bolt face with "Windex" or some other soapy solution. Ammonia will help break down the corrosive salts.

Cleaning the metal parts with USGI Bore Cleaner (the old WWII and Korean War stuff that smells so bad you need to keep it outside, and only use it outside) was what kept the M1 Garands and '03 & '03-A3's in such good shape, so it is not an impossible job. Hot soapy water scrubbing, followed by pouring clear boiling water; let dry (a couple of minutes), wipe it dry, and then clean it with your regular solvent and oil technique, will keep it in good shape. THIS HAS TO BE DONE THE SAME DAY OF FIRING, NOT THE NEXT DAY OR THE WEEK FOLLOWING!!

`

Ben Hartley · 07-10-2006, 12:49 PM

Well.. loading the M1 is a bit clumsy at first, especially if you're more used to bolt actions or box magazines.
.
First, make very sure that the bolt is latched all the way open, not just "caught" on the follower. If the bolt is touching the follower, it is not latched; move the operating rod handle to the rear until the bolt is fully latched.
.
Next, engage the safety: that's the metal "tab" which resides in a slot in the forward part of the trigger guard. Forward is safety "off," and rearward -- inside the guard -- is "on." The safety cannot be engaged unless the hammer is cocked! Push the tab to the rear, toward the butt. It may be stiff; a lot of M1's are cursed with a stubborn safety.
.
I extracted the following and the picture from the CMP pamphlet which accompanies all their M1 sales.
.
"Hold the rifle at the balance with the left hand and support the butt of the rifle against the thigh or rest the toe of the stock on the bench or on the ground, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Using the right hand, place a full clip on top of the receiver. Note that the clip is reversible, i.e., it can be inserted top or bottom first. With the thumb on the center of the top round, shove the clip straight down into the magazine until it latches."
.

.
Note that the little-finger edge of the right hand (at arrow) is blocking the operating rod handle; this will keep the bolt from slamming forward and catching your thumb or fingers. Pivot your whole hand forward and up. The bolt should move forward; in the best of all worlds, it will fully close, chambering the first round. If it does not, "bump" the operating rod handle with your right hand to strip and chamber the first round.
.
Um... properly speaking, the M1 uses an en bloc clip, not a stripper clip. For practice, I've had good luck with a clip's worth of primer-less unloaded cartridges. A friend who reloads made up a bunch of them for me. (Cheaper than commercial snap caps, donchaknow.)
.
There. HTH
.
Ben

FutureMarine · 07-10-2006, 03:09 PM

Gyrene-
The korean stuff i had was packed in a 100 rd cardboard box. i cleaned like it was corrosive though

07-03-2006, 08:32 PM	#1
phrogg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 107	What to look for when buying an M1? Hey guys. My local gunshop has two M1 Garands, at $650 a piece. I'm fairly positive that I'm getting one tomorrow. Yay for friends who can loan me money! I'm going to be shooting the thing quite a bit, and keeping it very clean. I need it to function, and function the best possible. What should I be looking for when choosing between them? How do you tell the condition, and which is better? They're both WWII era, and the guy there (very nice guy, and I've spend so many hundreds of dollars at this place on ammo that he probably wouldn't lie) said both had bores in really good condition. The rifles themselves were very similar to the brand new .308 Garand that I took a look at - the wood was just slightly looser and a bit darker. (Heck no, I'm not getting a .308 Garand - and at $1350?! .30-06 it is) Should I be looking for a clean, crisp looking action, or stick with the one with the best looking bore? Anything else I should be looking for? I believe one was made in 1944, one was made in 1945. One of them looked like the front sight was a little bent outwards, but I wasn't really sure. I'll definitly inspect it closer, but yeah.

07-03-2006, 09:44 PM	#2
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,952	which shop is that. your in the sac area right? Like any rifle you are going to need to check the bore just to make sure Make sure it is in good condition Definately look for a clean crisp action If you just choose carefully you will be happy __________________ Semper Fi

07-07-2006, 06:04 PM	#5
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11,117 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	H U A. http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/inspect.htm __________________ Joe the plumber is screwed

07-07-2006, 06:21 PM	#6
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,952	the garand cliip cal be a pain in the ARSE! i rent the one at cordova and when its oiled WELL it wont bee too bad, but when its not, 8 rounds wont seem like a lot because you'll have to fiddle with that again. Anyways, you'll love your new rifle __________________ Semper Fi

07-08-2006, 05:47 PM	#10
Ben Hartley Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jaffrey, New Hampshire Posts: 149	Grease 'n oil... the slipp'ry stuff... General rule: oil preserves, grease lubricates. For a chart of the grease points, try: - http://www.nicolausassociates.com/free_stuff.htm - ...and scroll down the page to the "M! RIFLE GREASE POINTS" link. It's a .pdf file, and you'll need Adobe Reader to view or save it. . (Bet you'll end up downloading more than just the grease point chart!) - Ben

07-03-2006, 10:17 PM	#3
spicybeefjerky Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 155	no pitting check the bores with a small light...make sure the rifling is nice and strong the the bore is mirror bright

07-07-2006, 09:39 PM	#7
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	phrogg - Watch out for "M1 Thumb!" NEVER, NEVER place your fingers or thumb anywhere near the clip well, without having full control of the Operating Rod!!! The first thing that happens, when the bolt chambers your thumb or finger, is that it will make you speak French, Russian, and possibly Libyan! If you are lucky, you can see again and stop yelling in about 5 to 10 minutes! Secondly, plan on your thumb hurting for about 2 weeks, and your thumbnail coming off!! I will repeat myself!!! NEVER, NEVER place your fingers or thumb anywhere near the clip well, without having full control of the Operating Rod!!! Full control of the Operating Rod Handle, means just that, anything less will surely lead to "M1 Thumb"!

07-07-2006, 11:26 PM	#8
fordruid Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 156	Check to make sure the reciever isn't welded.

07-08-2006, 11:55 AM	#9
spicybeefjerky Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 155	and also make sure that you grease some of the moving parts...you should be able to tell where because of the wear on the metal...i dont recall all of the differeent spots but i'm sure somebody else does! :right:

07-08-2006, 09:24 PM	#11
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,952	was that bought at cordova guns phrogg? __________________ Semper Fi

07-10-2006, 01:40 AM	#13
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,952	well since you dont like corrosive i think that rules out the korean stuff. good ammo though! well the only think to think about with the clip is just keep your right hand around the bolt and shove it in with your left hand. i only rented their garand twice and i got good at it. __________________ Semper Fi

07-10-2006, 11:37 AM	#14
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	FutureMarine - The Korean "K A" Headstamp is CORROSIVE, and it usually comes packed in clips and bandoliers, or loose packed, in a .50 Cal can. The "P S" headstamp is Non-Corrosive, and is usually packed in 20 round boxes, sometimes in a .50 Cal can, or just sold in the 20 round boxes, depending on who is selling it. Both are made in the same factory, with the "K A" made for the Korean Army (maybe that is why the "K A"), and the "P S" made for sale to other Governments, or the U. S. Market. The only problem with shooting the CORROSIVE ammo, is that you have to be scrupulously clean after shooting it, by pulling the rifle apart, to clean the Gas Cylinder, the Operating Rod, the Barrel, and the Bolt. Some shoot CORROSIVE a lot, and before they leave the range they spray the bore and bolt face with "Windex" or some other soapy solution. Ammonia will help break down the corrosive salts. Cleaning the metal parts with USGI Bore Cleaner (the old WWII and Korean War stuff that smells so bad you need to keep it outside, and only use it outside) was what kept the M1 Garands and '03 & '03-A3's in such good shape, so it is not an impossible job. Hot soapy water scrubbing, followed by pouring clear boiling water; let dry (a couple of minutes), wipe it dry, and then clean it with your regular solvent and oil technique, will keep it in good shape. THIS HAS TO BE DONE THE SAME DAY OF FIRING, NOT THE NEXT DAY OR THE WEEK FOLLOWING!! `

07-10-2006, 12:49 PM	#15
Ben Hartley Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jaffrey, New Hampshire Posts: 149	Loading w/o Getting "Bit" Well.. loading the M1 is a bit clumsy at first, especially if you're more used to bolt actions or box magazines. . First, make very sure that the bolt is latched all the way open, not just "caught" on the follower. If the bolt is touching the follower, it is not latched; move the operating rod handle to the rear until the bolt is fully latched. . Next, engage the safety: that's the metal "tab" which resides in a slot in the forward part of the trigger guard. Forward is safety "off," and rearward -- inside the guard -- is "on." The safety cannot be engaged unless the hammer is cocked! Push the tab to the rear, toward the butt. It may be stiff; a lot of M1's are cursed with a stubborn safety. . I extracted the following and the picture from the CMP pamphlet which accompanies all their M1 sales. . "Hold the rifle at the balance with the left hand and support the butt of the rifle against the thigh or rest the toe of the stock on the bench or on the ground, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Using the right hand, place a full clip on top of the receiver. Note that the clip is reversible, i.e., it can be inserted top or bottom first. With the thumb on the center of the top round, shove the clip straight down into the magazine until it latches." . . Note that the little-finger edge of the right hand (at arrow) is blocking the operating rod handle; this will keep the bolt from slamming forward and catching your thumb or fingers. Pivot your whole hand forward and up. The bolt should move forward; in the best of all worlds, it will fully close, chambering the first round. If it does not, "bump" the operating rod handle with your right hand to strip and chamber the first round. . Um... properly speaking, the M1 uses an en bloc clip, not a stripper clip. For practice, I've had good luck with a clip's worth of primer-less unloaded cartridges. A friend who reloads made up a bunch of them for me. (Cheaper than commercial snap caps, donchaknow.) . There. HTH . Ben

07-10-2006, 03:09 PM	#16
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,952	Gyrene- The korean stuff i had was packed in a 100 rd cardboard box. i cleaned like it was corrosive though __________________ Semper Fi