Guadalcanal/USMC/M1 Garand

eclancy · 06-26-2007, 10:47 AM

Gentlemen,
Here's a question to think about. On Aug. 7, 1942 the USMC 1st DIV, landed on Guadalcanal in the Pacific making it the First Land Attack against Japan. We all know that they were armed with the Model 1903 Springfield Rifle. The First USMC Div. was at first ordered to go to Australia for additional training. Those Orders were changed and they got the Orders for Guadalcanal. Here's my question:
Could the 1st USMC DIV. been armed with the NEW M1 Garand Rifles before they left the US ? Here's just one point. In Dec of 1941 Ordnance at SA had built about
29,700 M1 Rifles and Winchester had added another 6800. That means between Dec of 1941 until July of 1942 there would have been enough M1 Garands to arm the 1st Marine Div. A word about "they were not trained for the M1". Then why did the USMC guys take the M1 Garands that landed with I Think the USA 164th Inf. Order to Guadalcanal.
I think this question will be moved so read fast.
Thanks again
Clancy

littlejoe872 · 06-26-2007, 11:31 AM

I think everyone knows that the USMC has always typically been the last to get new equipment, or have to make due with older equipment/hand-me-downs. Did the numbers exist to equip the Marines with M-1's before they landed on Guadalcanal? You showed us they did. But the general practice then, and I think to this day somewhat, is that the Marines are usually an afterthought when it comes to equipment. They were still using M-14's when the Army had pretty much transitioned to M-16's(not that this is a bad thing), still using .45 1911A1's when pretty much the rest of the military had adopted the M-9 Baretta(again.... maybe not such a bad thing), they were using M-60 Tanks in Desert Storm in abundance when the Army was using M-1 Abrams tanks. I think it's just another example of the practice of the Marines always sucking hind tit. I'm the youngest of 3 brothers, and in our house, the first one up, was always the best one dressed.

eclancy · 06-27-2007, 10:30 AM

littlejoe872,
I agree the USMC gets the old gear however I have files that show 400 M1 Garand Rifles did get shipped to them by Dec. 1938. The USMC did adopt the M1 Garand on March 5 1941. Ordnance issue Orders that they would receive 3,000 M1 Rifles per month starting in April of 1941. Tight but let's say just part of the 1st Marine Div. could have been armed with the M1 Garand. Just my two cents to see what you guys come up with.
Thanks again
Clancy

just_a_car · 06-27-2007, 11:27 AM

I'm thinking that the majority of the Garands were being shipped East over to Europe. There may be some sort of contract or "deal" to supply certain fronts first, due to casualties, troop numbers, or lack of weaponry.

Actually, now that I think about it, I seem to recall an image you posted about "our boys" being without arms over in Europe, so if the guys going to Guadalcanal had 1903 Springfields, at least they had a rifle to fight with. I'd say getting a Garand in the hand of a rifleless soldier is much more important than replacing an "outdated design".

ezearln · 06-27-2007, 11:28 AM

littlejoe, the USMC adopted the M16, M16A1,A2,A3 and M9 pistols long before the US Navy did for a variety of reasons and NONE of which has a dang thing to do with a hind teat. Much has to do with logistics and one more dang time congress not knowing their Azz from a hole inna ground.

littlejoe872 · 06-27-2007, 01:08 PM

I meant no disrespect to the Marines. I was just trying to emphasize that they, through no fault of their own, seem to get last dibs on new equipment.

ezearln · 06-27-2007, 01:15 PM

Not always Lil Joe , while they may be Uncle Sams Misguided Children, they are still the much teased and secretly beloved lil brother of the United States Navy, and as many of them as I have known and teased and tormented over the years of my service I would not hesitate to risk my life to pull one of em to safety, they are after all my brothers in arms and another thing you need to remember is that until WWII the USMC then as NOW was a relatively small branch and needed smaller numbers of equipment etc....

tbonecpk · 06-27-2007, 11:38 PM

heheheh earl you are not kidden about the marines being the much teased little bro of the navy. Bein a navy brat as I am I love makin fun of the marines but I respect them as shipmates and though I do not wear the uniform, yet, I would do anything to keep them safe.

M1D-Garand · 06-28-2007, 05:08 AM

Didn't they use the first garands for "instructional" use???

Rob

06-26-2007, 10:47 AM	#1
eclancy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: N. Catasauqua, Pa Posts: 1,338	Guadalcanal/USMC/M1 Garand Gentlemen, Here's a question to think about. On Aug. 7, 1942 the USMC 1st DIV, landed on Guadalcanal in the Pacific making it the First Land Attack against Japan. We all know that they were armed with the Model 1903 Springfield Rifle. The First USMC Div. was at first ordered to go to Australia for additional training. Those Orders were changed and they got the Orders for Guadalcanal. Here's my question: Could the 1st USMC DIV. been armed with the NEW M1 Garand Rifles before they left the US ? Here's just one point. In Dec of 1941 Ordnance at SA had built about 29,700 M1 Rifles and Winchester had added another 6800. That means between Dec of 1941 until July of 1942 there would have been enough M1 Garands to arm the 1st Marine Div. A word about "they were not trained for the M1". Then why did the USMC guys take the M1 Garands that landed with I Think the USA 164th Inf. Order to Guadalcanal. I think this question will be moved so read fast. Thanks again Clancy __________________ http://www.garandm1rifle.com http://www.users.fast.net/~eclancy

06-27-2007, 10:30 AM	#3
eclancy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: N. Catasauqua, Pa Posts: 1,338	littlejoe872, I agree the USMC gets the old gear however I have files that show 400 M1 Garand Rifles did get shipped to them by Dec. 1938. The USMC did adopt the M1 Garand on March 5 1941. Ordnance issue Orders that they would receive 3,000 M1 Rifles per month starting in April of 1941. Tight but let's say just part of the 1st Marine Div. could have been armed with the M1 Garand. Just my two cents to see what you guys come up with. Thanks again Clancy __________________ http://www.garandm1rifle.com http://www.users.fast.net/~eclancy

06-27-2007, 11:27 AM	#4
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,504	I'm thinking that the majority of the Garands were being shipped East over to Europe. There may be some sort of contract or "deal" to supply certain fronts first, due to casualties, troop numbers, or lack of weaponry. Actually, now that I think about it, I seem to recall an image you posted about "our boys" being without arms over in Europe, so if the guys going to Guadalcanal had 1903 Springfields, at least they had a rifle to fight with. I'd say getting a Garand in the hand of a rifleless soldier is much more important than replacing an "outdated design". __________________

06-27-2007, 11:28 AM	#5
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	littlejoe, the USMC adopted the M16, M16A1,A2,A3 and M9 pistols long before the US Navy did for a variety of reasons and NONE of which has a dang thing to do with a hind teat. Much has to do with logistics and one more dang time congress not knowing their Azz from a hole inna ground. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-27-2007, 01:15 PM	#7
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Not always Lil Joe , while they may be Uncle Sams Misguided Children, they are still the much teased and secretly beloved lil brother of the United States Navy, and as many of them as I have known and teased and tormented over the years of my service I would not hesitate to risk my life to pull one of em to safety, they are after all my brothers in arms and another thing you need to remember is that until WWII the USMC then as NOW was a relatively small branch and needed smaller numbers of equipment etc.... __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-26-2007, 11:31 AM	#2
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 351 Images: 20	I think everyone knows that the USMC has always typically been the last to get new equipment, or have to make due with older equipment/hand-me-downs. Did the numbers exist to equip the Marines with M-1's before they landed on Guadalcanal? You showed us they did. But the general practice then, and I think to this day somewhat, is that the Marines are usually an afterthought when it comes to equipment. They were still using M-14's when the Army had pretty much transitioned to M-16's(not that this is a bad thing), still using .45 1911A1's when pretty much the rest of the military had adopted the M-9 Baretta(again.... maybe not such a bad thing), they were using M-60 Tanks in Desert Storm in abundance when the Army was using M-1 Abrams tanks. I think it's just another example of the practice of the Marines always sucking hind tit. I'm the youngest of 3 brothers, and in our house, the first one up, was always the best one dressed.

06-27-2007, 01:08 PM	#6
littlejoe872 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 351 Images: 20	I meant no disrespect to the Marines. I was just trying to emphasize that they, through no fault of their own, seem to get last dibs on new equipment.

06-27-2007, 11:38 PM	#8
tbonecpk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Diego Cal Posts: 1,590 Blog Entries: 2	heheheh earl you are not kidden about the marines being the much teased little bro of the navy. Bein a navy brat as I am I love makin fun of the marines but I respect them as shipmates and though I do not wear the uniform, yet, I would do anything to keep them safe. __________________ "Speak softly but carry a big stick" -Teddy Roosevelt

06-28-2007, 05:08 AM	#9
M1D-Garand Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 367	Didn't they use the first garands for "instructional" use??? Rob __________________ 8 Bangs and a Pling