i have always wanted a Garand

[zseese]

so im really not all too familiar, however, i have always loved this firearm and am interested in purchasing one. just kinda curious as to what to look for, what to avoid, etc. it will mostly be for show, but will get shot prolly no more than 4 times a year though. also, why do you have to meet qualifications for this type of weapon? thank you in advance


Zac

[Dookiebutt]

You cannot go wrong buying a rifle through CMP. You avoid the risks of shot-out barrels, welded receivers, etc. The CMP "qualifications" that concern you really are not that stringent. Read this: ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS

[Full MeTal Jack]

CMP Home
Collecting and Shooting the U.S. M1 Garand .30 Rifle - HISTORY
Home Page
The M1 Garand Information Place
Dougsstockpile.com

There are big gun shows in Oklahoma City.
At the CMP site, you can get information on what it takes to buy a Garand from them.
Generally you have to belong to a "qualified" organization and shoot in a High Power Rifle Match along with being a LAC, Law Abiding Citizen. High Power matches are open to the general public. CMP's site will have a list of organizations. Most are a state's rifle association.

Shoot it four times a year? Giveme a break! Once you squeeze of 8 rounds rapid fire and the rilfe clip goes "ping" you'll want to shoot her every weekend.

What not to buy is anything that does not have a :
Springfield
Winchester
International Harvester
or
Harrison and Richardson
on the reciever.
No name on back of reciever is a NO NO!
Stick with those just mentioned.

Another thing to look for is a so-called "re-weld" This is a reciever that was cut up via Executive Order from President Bill Clinton. Some enterrpizing people made whole reicievers from cut parts. Look for discoloration in the metal half way. The cuts/welds might be just forward of the cliplatch release. That is the 1/2 button on the left side.

Bubba, hope that helps

[benhinds2000]

I must disagree with FMJ on one point. Its any qualified match shooting 50 rounds or more. There are quite a number of different ones, many using a .22.

[Orlando]

You do not have to even shoot in a qualified match to fullfill the live fireams portion to buy from CMP.
A C&R , CCL, live firearms training with a hunting license, having a range officer sign off at the range will all qualify. Then become a member of the Garand Collectors Association ($25.00 per year, just one of the many qualified clubs) and you are set

[zseese]

wow guys, thanks for the great responses, i printed out the form for the marksmanship program for surplus rifle sales, and since the certification can be done by law enforcement, i know a few officers who are certified instructors i can take with me to do it. this is gonna work out really well, now i just have to save up the cash!

[nathangdad]

Always check to see if it is bent to any degree.
Firing excessively powerful ammo will do this.
Avoid a gun if the operating rod looks in any way
out of the ordinary.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by nathangdad

Always check to see if it is bent to any degree.
Firing excessively powerful ammo will do this.
Avoid a gun if the operating rod looks in any way
out of the ordinary.

That would be tough to do as all Op Rods have bends in them. You have to have a proper jig to see if they are bent to proper specs

[nathangdad]

bowed outward would have been a better choice of words.

[.22guy]

Another vote here for the CMP. Just don't take too long because like all surplus, there is a finite amount, they ain't makin' any more. Good luck, the CMP will do you right.

[Orlando]

There are several bends in a Op Rod. Not something you could check by eye. If it were bent so bad from shooting commercial ammo you wouldnt have to look at to tell but the tilt test would.

[Full MeTal Jack]

Zseese, good luck. Drive a little less, do a couple handiman jobs, stop smoking or less and less Bud Lite. It's easy to spend $50 a month on beer. Before long you got the cash.
First Garand I bought from CMP was with 1st part-time contract work paycheck then the next CMP Garand was the last pay check from part-time contracting.
pic of first Garand (from gunshow) now with custom Mesquite stock and Wilson barrel
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b9...uiteStock3.jpg

[zseese]

Originally Posted by Full MeTal Jack

Zseese, good luck. Drive a little less, do a couple handiman jobs, stop smoking or less and less Bud Lite. It's easy to spend $50 a month on beer. Before long you got the cash.
First Garand I bought from CMP was with 1st part-time contract work paycheck then the next CMP Garand was the last pay check from part-time contracting.
pic of first Garand (from gunshow) now with custom Mesquite stock and Wilson barrel
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b9...uiteStock3.jpg

yeah, i was thinking about cuttin back on some things, but beer and snuff? why dont you just take my soul! j/k but yeah that is some really good advice, and if i cant figure it out, i hear they are buying kidneys for quite a bit these days

so when i am looking at cmp and i see throat erosion and muzzle guage, what exactly does that mean? i know its quality/wear related, but never heard that reference before. also, i am thinking about getting service grade for my first one, just because its a little less and if i am horribly disappointed, i can do some extensive refinishing myself, so my other question is will the service grades typically shoot well in general, mostly lookin for personal experience and such here i guess, thanks again guys, g&g rocks!

[ltcboy]

so when i am looking at cmp and i see throat erosion and muzzle guage, what exactly does that mean?
The term throat (synonymous with lede, lead, or bullet seat) refers to an area where the lands of the rifling start at the breech end of the barrel - just in front of the "free bore" area. The lands actually start from the same surface plane as the groves, but quickly taper to full height. A measurement from the surface of one land to the opposing land will provide the bore diameter. The drawing for the NM M14 barrel calls for a bore diameter of .3002 inch with a tolerance of plus .0004 inch. In general discussion this dimension becomes .300 or simply .30 caliber.

Although the actual starting point of the rifling is determined from an internal point in the chamber the throat can be accepted as being a specific distance from the breech end of the barrel.

The throat gage is comprised of a forward section that is precision ground to a specific taper to coincide with the numbered reference lines found farther back on the shank. There are 11 lines used as reference, the forward most is not numbered but is quoted as being zero. The next 9 lines are numbered accordingly. Although the last line is not numbered - the "field reject" line - it is accepted as 10. The rear end of the gage has a simple handle coming off at an angle. The neat thing about the handle is that it keeps you from losing the gage in the really seriously worn barrels.

When inserting the gage into a new "government" barrel until the tapered part bears against the lands, the first reference line "zero" will be even with the rear end of the barrel or just slightly beyond. The throat reading is quoted as being zero, or perhaps one half. This tells you the rifling starts where it is supposed to and the bore diameter at that point is the .300 inch as it is supposed to be.

Suppose you put the gage in a worn barrel. You may find the number 4 reference line comes even with the rear of the barrel. This would tell you the bore diameter is .304 where it is supposed to be.300 inch. The "throat" is worn away by 4 thousandths of an inch. If the gage inserted all the way to the last line - field reject - this would tell you the throat is worn by ten thousandths of an inch.

So where does this infamous number 5 get its notoriety as being the point at which you must re-barrel? Well here's the story. It has been found through the years that the "average" - what ever that is - throat wears at the rate of about one thousandth per 1000 rounds fired. It has also been noted that this so called average barrel with5000 rounds through it, and reading a 5 on the gage, has lost its peak accuracy at that point. As many other factors enter the picture, this rule of thumb is often proven wrong.

Many shooters do not realize the wear that takes place at the muzzle and how important that end is to accuracy. Here is a brief view of what happens. The gases pushing the bullet through the barrel possess a greater velocity potential than the bullet does. At the very instant the bullet breaks seal with the muzzle the gases blow past the bullet. This "blow by" effect at the time of exit tends to wash away metal at the muzzle. As the muzzle erodes, the gases start leaking around the bullet before it is really supposed to be free from the barrel. Any irregularity in the way the gases leak past the bullet will have effect on accuracy. The condition of the rifling at the muzzle and the crown have far more meaning than a few thousandths of wear at the throat.

Mike

[Full MeTal Jack]

Thanks Mike. Great explanation. The Throat Erosian Guage is a great measurement instrument. However one needs to have their rifle's T.E. measured because not all barrels start at "0" T.E... A reading of 2 1/2 doesn't nessessarily mean the barrel is half way to being shot out. Having T.E. measured is like milage on a car. My CMP Danish Springfield started at 2 1/2. Now T.E. is slightly over 3 1/2. Accuracy has declined some but that I believe to be receiver to stock fit.
A friend of mine once took his Garand to a gunshow and someone measured T.E.. They told him it was shot out. Typical gunshow BS. I used the same Garand on a match. One of the Garand Techies measured the throat, a solid 2. I never told him that except for it shot well. I bought it couple years later. That rifle, "2" is a known starting point for me.

[zseese]

ok, thats what i thought it was, just making sure, now i have some good numbers and an idea of what i want to work with, thanks again guys!

[zseese]

found one this weekend for $998. was remanned to almost new condition, great shape, almost no blemishes whatsoever, but have not saved up enough money yet, very sad

[Orlando]

Brand new Post War barrels can have a Throat Wear reading of 2-3. Throat wear does not affect accuracy near as much as Muzzle Wear. I will take a Post War barrel with a throat wear of 5 and low Muzzle wear anyday

[oldjarhead]

Originally Posted by zseese

so im really not all too familiar, however, i have always loved this firearm and am interested in purchasing one. just kinda curious as to what to look for, what to avoid, etc. it will mostly be for show, but will get shot prolly no more than 4 times a year though. also, why do you have to meet qualifications for this type of weapon? thank you in advance

Zac

There are no qualifications to own an M1 Garand; just requirements to purchase weapons from the CMP. Meeting the qualifications provide the CMP the legality of the purchaser and meet standards set down by the Civilian Marksmanship Program. It is not hard to qualify and once you do you will be more than satisfied with CMP prices and quality.
I agree with FMJ...4 times a year...that's a hoot. Once you do the deed you're hooked!

[Full MeTal Jack]

The Garand in previous post has a post war barrel. I believe to be reworked in 1964.