Ok heres the deal, I've been looking all over the place for opinoins on this.
If you lived out in the country 500 yards west to your house is a 2,000 acre area of timber hills trees lakes and creeks. Everywair else round you is flat farm ground. Ya gotta lil money to burn no more than a grand but Ya wanna do it wisely. Things I'm considering are the possible or should I say up coming weapons ban will they cost way to much in the future to afford? , range, knock down power, dependability. Just say somthing did happen in a SHTF situation and your not gonna worry bout having to go to the city or escape it what would you pick. Keep in mind you don't personally own any of these guns at the moment.
I feel that in an SHTF enviroment I'm not gonaa be sparying and praying out here. I'm very comfortable with all of them. I have access to 6 other M1's and parts and own 30-06 bolts. The enbloc some mayconsider a weak point but it will far outlast a regular mag. so I consider it a wash between the enbloc and the regular mag. If you've ever got the chance to watch 6 m-1's shooting at the same time you'll understand. I also have .223 bolts.
But I'm leaning towards the M1 just for the fact that even though I don't think the assult weapons ban will effect it I don't know how much longer they will be around. It's got the range thing down. There are not many trees around that will stop its bullet. It's gonna stop pretty near any human it hits it could take out a vehical farther away. It shots a round that is know as a good deer/elk round not a marginal deer round. I feel that this would give me the best chance to collect all of the guns I want by shooting the others with AR's an AK's coming at should the SHFT. I've had the chance to due live fire in an old house. .223 at farther ranges barley gets through 2 plaster walls a the 7.62x39 perfromed much better I was very impressed! Oh and I can load the enbloc while its in the gun I don't know whay people say you can't thats how I learned to load it!
Thats all I got lets hear your thoughts never seen this kinda forum before.
Because of your particular situation, I would go with the M1 as well. Plenty of land and distance to cover, the likelihood of a full out army coming your way is pretty low. If your plan is to hunker down and engage from distance, I would be comfortable with .30-06 bolts and the M1. If you said tight quarters and lots of buildings, I'd go for a rifle with more mag cap. Hope you have something for close in. All that land is a lot for one man to cover. Blindsides can be easily taken through marginally coordinated effort.
Does it have to be a M1 or AR? A grand doesn't buy much for an AR thats still the bottom end ar type rifle, so reliability becomes an issue. M1 remanufacture are going for 600 to 700 bucks with folding stock.
If you go with M1 you are stuck with limited supoort from aftermarket, I don't believe you can mount scope lights or sights for them. Which was about a year ago.
AR practice ammo is cheap if you do the .22 conversion.
M1 substanital kick compared to AR .
M1 accuracy is ok we are not talking about sniper rifle here.
SKS cheaper gun reliable and accuracy should be be close enough where you are not going to notice it. Just stick with good russian brand if you buy chinese make sure its milled and not stamped.
I would also like to throw in good marlin repeater carbine would work as well too for a lot less money.
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow..... Alaska
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If you build your ar or buy an upper end you can get it in more than just the .223 Im getting ready to build one (well a friend is buildign it for me...) and im going to have it build in 7x62 (the rounds used in sks and ak ) so look around because just cause its an ar doesnt meen it has to be a .223
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Last edited by AllAlaskan; 12-02-2008 at 09:40 AM.
Well I'm only talking about a gun under 1,000 here. If I got over that I'd just assume get an M1a or FAL. I really don't need anylights on it and electric gadgets as this is a survival SHTF type of deal I would only want a scope since electronic items maynot be able to get battries for. They make scope mounts for them that are easy to install. I've got some SKS's (Yugo's) and while they are very good guns they just don't have the range of the 30-06 or .223 for that matter. I have a Marlin Carbine but I would much perfer to use my 30 carbine over it in most situations it just has more punch. I'll agree recoil is less on the .223. If I get an AR it will be in .223 just because of the avalablity of parts. Other wise a 7.62 one sounds like a blast!
Having a souped up room broom AR is inordinate amounts of fun, but if you've got a purpose in mind, I'd go with it. Garands are proven in the field and on the range as well. Plenty accurate for minute of human accuracy at distance. If it comes down to close quarters I would just keep a trusty sidearm at all times along with your carbine. Always faster for a sidearm transition than second rifle...
Definitely an Garand. I'd go with an M1 Carbine for close quarters. They do make hollow point ammo for that .30 Carbine that is supposed to be quite a bit more effective than standard ball and I'd imagine that a 110GR .30 HP round would do a little more damage at CQ than an 55GR .223...
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Close quaters is no problem at all I perfer the m1 carbine over the AR actually. Less muzzle flash easier to stay on target for me as well. It does lack the penitration through walls at a longer range though could be good or bad. Close quaters is very well covered by the benelli and a handfull of carbines. Being able to do live fire inside a house was probably one of the most eye opening events I ever did! This wasn't a shooting house it was a old farm house in the middle of BFE. It was very well built being may of plaster hardwood floors wood siding and real lumber not pine an OX board like todays houses. I learned that bird shot can blow a hole clean through an outside wall from a much greater distance than I thought possible. Any room in my house I would be ok with using bird shot if I had to. I still load buck shot however. Slugs would only blow through 2 walls I figured it'd do more. I would defently want a caliber larger than the .223 to try and clear a house from the outside if I was taking it quickly.
The M1 Garand with a scout scope would be hard to beat if you want a 30-06 semi auto. Just keep plenty of clips on hand. The M1 carbine with SP or HP is equal to the AR 223 out to 100 yards or so. The main difference between the assault rifle and MBR is the weight of the ammo. The assault rifle allows you to carry a lot more ammo easily. If you dont have to carry ammo then the MBR is the way to go.
Last edited by ironhead7544; 12-03-2008 at 05:49 AM.
if it is the awb you are thinking about you need to think about the things that are to be banded it's not a m1 or sks or even a m1 carbine,(well not yet) an ak is more bang for the buck, fals are still under a grand mags are very cheap and very ez to work on ,if you have to work on one witch is very unlikely. but if i were you guys i'd be wored about ammo. a grand of surplus ammo 3 years ago is worth 3-5 x now and going up (if you can find it) as pat paulson said in the 60's guns do not kill people bullets do.
M1 will be more reasonably priced. There may or may not be an AW ban around the corner, but if you buy an AR and there isn't one, you will lose a ton of value. M1 values are holding steady, gradually increasing only because of supply, but not spiking because of BO.
Plus, in a real SHTF situation, there's a chance there will be a few dead or wounded people who won't need their ARs anymore.
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Man if I could get my hand on a decent FAL for under a grand I would but I ain't seen any good ones fer less than 1500. Any ways I ordered 2 M1 garands today one service grade one barreled reciever I'm gonna pick up a parts kit for it put my 308 barrel on it and do some other work to it like install a scope syth stock in such. at least that the plan also got 700 rounds coming fer it all for under a grand.
I always think of a SHTF situation strategically. If a situation arose, like end of the world stuff, mad max etc... true fighting for your survival, I have certain criteria that I think about.
1) Not so much availability of weapons, but availability of ammo. What will be the most common ammo in use? Probably 7.62x39 and .223. All of your cops and soldiers will be carrying ARs. That means, as tragic as it may be to think about, I can recover ammo for my AR by scavenging the battlefield. Alot of people in my area have AKs, so the same goes for the 7.62x39, so I also have an AK.
2) Versatility. Can the weapon do all the things I may need it for? Fighting, CQB, as well as range for necessary hunting for food.
3) Durability. Can the weapon handle the riggers of true survival and combat? Is it easy to maintain and repair if necessary?
4) Compatability with the rest of my family's tools. (Yes, to me a weapon is a tool.) You don't want to have several weapons all firing different ammo. I treat this like the military. I want to carry a maximum of two types of ammo. That way ammo can be shared between people if necessary.
For the durability and ease of repair issue, I think the M1 wins, but for availability of ammo and compatability in my case, it doesn't fit. (I'd love to have one, by the way)
An example would be the wildly popular, and easily available Mosin Nagant rifle. Lots of people have them around here and they sell at the shops all the time. But, I can hardly find ammo for it. The 7.62x54r is an odd size and generally not stockpiled at the shops here. I'm lucky if I can find one box, let alone all I'd need in a SHTF scenario. So, although I love shooting my Mosin off at the river, it will be a back-up to my second back-up when Russia attacks, civil order breaks down, aliens land.. whatever. LOL
The optimum situation is to have a couple of rifles, in various configurations, all chambered for the same round.
I agree. however I would like to say a few things. thing commercally 30 06 is more avalable around here. I figure most of the 308 223 and 7.62 x 39 will get eat'n up by people that don't know rifle marksmanship and will do more spray and pray shooting. Not all people by anymeans will do that but there are alot of people that just want guns to look cool and 1. do not shoot with them or 2. will be scared s**Tless. In IL there is not much use for high power rifles so ammo isn't that popular.One that you will find in every store is 30 06. 308 is hard to come by. This is why I keep a wide varity of common caliber weapons on hand Companion guns such as a 357 revolver lever carbine, .30 carbine, 12 and 20 ga, .223 bolt, 308 and 3006 bolts SKS to name a few. This way I can broaden my horizens and accpet most common calibers. Also I shoot Savage bolts wich allow for fast barrel change thus caliber swaps incase actions break. I have a .308 barrel already purchased and and extra m1 garand reciever on the way with parts kit. I agree any 30 cal weapon is great beacuse of all the ammo even if you don't have a gun to fire that cartridge a bullet puller will make it work for you in your reloads. Also the 30 06 is a parent case to many rounds a short action savage bolt will not allow for feeding of longer 30 06 rounds but a long one will allow it with a quick barrel swap barrels for savage are pretty cheap! You can cram pretty much any wieght 30 call bullet into a 30 06 round 220 on down to 100 gr. I havn't seen load data for the 308 past 180gr. Maybe you will come accros some of the "SUPER MAGS" gotta bullet puller you got bullets!
Also if I want an ar or ak I could in a shtf situation I could get my hand on one easier than a longer range heaver hitting gun such as a FAL M1 or M1A.
I'd just shoot them from a couple hunderd yards off and go get it. Unless of course they do have a good quality AR wich not alot of people that I have seen own. seems like every time some one comes out here to shoot they have the m4 shorty style. I know most of the people that have the true riflemans full length ARs all tricked out they are my buddies and will allways be welcome. Really I think that if a SHTF thing would happen your only hope would be to group up with friend you can trust.
Well, for your situation, it sounds to me like you are on the right track. You have the existing equipment and the knowledge to maximize its usefulness. For you, sounds like the M1 is definitely your better choice. Just my opinion though.
long term decisions like this about such critical things can really drive you crazy, can't they? LOL
